Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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About a thousand different people here had the idea to start making apps to connect people who need help with something with those who can spare time/material/whatever else. The problem is, there really is an absolute shitload of these now, and some of them seem to have a decent amount of volunteers ready to help, but they're fucking apps, the people who need help the most don't know they even exist, and even if they did, they have no way to access them.
Close Atom and go help your family and neighbors, you technology-obsessed autistic shitheads.
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Hydroxychloroquine.
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@blek The writing's been on the wall for at least 25 years now. Since well before the old people of today were old, it's been clear that society is becoming computerized and technical literacy is essential for participation. My grandparents are in their 80s, and they have smartphones and Internet connections!
I don't mean to sound insensitive, but... if someone has spent this long ignoring the facts and refusing to change, they've made their choice to withdraw from society. If they then, as a direct consequence of that choice, find themselves unable to participate in systems that are designed to help them by organizing the logistics efficiently, why are you blaming the people trying their honest best to help
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@Dragoon I like this scene because Agent K is essentially arguing against governmental transparency and the citizens' right to know, but the instinctive tendency of the viewer is to identify with what he's saying.
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@Mason_Wheeler I don't think I've ever seen anyone over 60 with a smartphone.
I'm blaming the technoautists because if you claim to be trying to help, but you're doing that in a way that entirely misses the target audience, it's fucking useless. It's like seeing a drowning person, grabbing a life saver, and then telling them they should just get on your boat if they want it. What the fuck.
On top of that these shitheads just can't stop talking about it on twatter and everywhere else, reading some of these posts you'd think you were observing the control room from the Bourne movies, when in reality all they're doing is shitting out poorly made, poorly designed webapps and the issue they're fixing is that some grandma somewhere needs dog food for her poodle. It's an insufferable cilcrejerk while they're being completely useless, they'd do infinitely more good (that is, any at all) if they got off their asses and actually asked people who might need help - but that won't get them likes, will it.
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@blek So instead of doing what they're good at, which could end up helping thousands of people by improving the efficiency of the entire system, they should waste their time helping one or two people in person, using skillsets they're not good at?
Screw that! How does that do any good for anybody? Your attitude is not only disgustingly cynical, it's terribly short-sighted as well. Please keep it to the Garage.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Screw that! How does that do any good for anybody? Your attitude is not only disgustingly cynical, it's terribly short-sighted as well. Please keep it to the Garage.
Now you know what you look like when you assume your experience is the same as everyone else's.
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@Mason_Wheeler My grandmother is 95 and has never owned a cell phone or computer. I have a 70-year-old aunt who's almost in the same boat and is practically in tears everytime someone says "No we won't help you in person or over a phone call, you need to download this iPhone app." She doesn't even know what "iPhone app" means, much less own an iPhone.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
it's been clear that society is becoming computerized and technical literacy is essential for participation.
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@Mason_Wheeler What I've been saying in the last 2 posts is that they're not helping a single soul. They're not improving any working system, they're just making useless garbage and going "look at me, I'm helping!". Mind you it's actually good that there's no demand for what they're doing, because this way they're just useless. If there was demand for this, these idiots would have split any existing supply between a whole bunch of different, poorly designed "services", so this is the better case scenario. But the point is, they're not helping at all. They're not doing anything useful, they're just idiots.
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@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There's Japan and South Korea who seem to be doing reasonably well, then the US isn't doing too bad (but on par with Iran, although their numbers are maybe a bit more doubtful than other? -- remember that the graph is relative to whatever has been chosen as "first day" (10 deaths), so the curves can effectively be shifted horizontally without any difference, and by doing that US and Iran are almost identical), and the rest is... well not much difference between all of them, and not doing very well.
The real complications for that graph have to do with the differences in population size; China and the US aren't really usefully mapped on the same scale. Pandemics really need scaling by population size if you want to figure out the effectiveness of public policy. Absolute numbers are only really useful for mapping suffering, and that's the sort of thing that doesn't help anyone.
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@blek OK no, actually, that's not true, they're probably somewhat preventing some help from reaching those who need it. I suppose at least some people who register on these shitty apps as volunteers won't do anything else and just wait for someone to call them. If these apps didn't exist, maybe these people would actually talk to someone directly and ask them if they needed help, and now they might not. It's probably not going to be a lot of people though.
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@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
What I've been saying in the last 2 posts is that they're not helping a single soul.
I know. And I've been saying you're wrong. It's statistically impossible for that to literally be true, and as long as it's not literally true, they're helping more people than they could by helping the way you want them to be helping.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There's Japan and South Korea who seem to be doing reasonably well, then the US isn't doing too bad (but on par with Iran, although their numbers are maybe a bit more doubtful than other? -- remember that the graph is relative to whatever has been chosen as "first day" (10 deaths), so the curves can effectively be shifted horizontally without any difference, and by doing that US and Iran are almost identical), and the rest is... well not much difference between all of them, and not doing very well.
The real complications for that graph have to do with the differences in population size; China and the US aren't really usefully mapped on the same scale. Pandemics really need scaling by population size if you want to figure out the effectiveness of public policy. Absolute numbers are only really useful for mapping suffering, and that's the sort of thing that doesn't help anyone.
I heard somewhere that the usual number to look at is the number of new cases on each day divided by the same number on the day before.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There's Japan and South Korea who seem to be doing reasonably well, then the US isn't doing too bad (but on par with Iran, although their numbers are maybe a bit more doubtful than other? -- remember that the graph is relative to whatever has been chosen as "first day" (10 deaths), so the curves can effectively be shifted horizontally without any difference, and by doing that US and Iran are almost identical), and the rest is... well not much difference between all of them, and not doing very well.
The real complications for that graph have to do with the differences in population size; China and the US aren't really usefully mapped on the same scale. Pandemics really need scaling by population size if you want to figure out the effectiveness of public policy. Absolute numbers are only really useful for mapping suffering, and that's the sort of thing that doesn't help anyone.
Exactly. It's a bit absurd to say, for example, that the numbers for the US and Iran are almost identical and leave out that the US has ~4x Iran's total population!
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Hydroxychloroquine.
Yep. We already have the safety data for it, and approved manufacturing procedures, and it appears to make a huge dent in the severity of the disease (very strong signal in a small study) which is what we'd expect for something with high applicability. Genuine good news.
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@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Mason_Wheeler I don't think I've ever seen anyone over 60 with a smartphone.
I'm blaming the technoautists because if you claim to be trying to help, but you're doing that in a way that entirely misses the target audience, it's fucking useless. It's like seeing a drowning person, grabbing a life saver, and then telling them they should just get on your boat if they want it. What the fuck.
On top of that these shitheads just can't stop talking about it on twatter and everywhere else, reading some of these posts you'd think you were observing the control room from the Bourne movies, when in reality all they're doing is shitting out poorly made, poorly designed webapps and the issue they're fixing is that some grandma somewhere needs dog food for her poodle. It's an insufferable cilcrejerk while they're being completely useless, they'd do infinitely more good (that is, any at all) if they got off their asses and actually asked people who might need help - but that won't get them likes, will it.
It's just the modern form of thoughts and prayers, with the distinction that it might actually help some people.
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@Mason_Wheeler I don't really know how else to explain this to you. There is no demand. None. Not a single person has requested a single thing through any of the apps I've seen. You can see the queues, they're EMPTY. Nada. Zilch. Jack shit. There's nothing anyone is requesting through these fucking apps. Actual useful volunteer efforts are organized elsewhere, through old people's homes, universities, and so on, and all these people are doing is sucking potential volunteers away from those.
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@PleegWat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I heard somewhere that the usual number to look at is the number of new cases on each day divided by the same number on the day before.
That's a fairly good way of scaling the graph of the differentials, but can cause anomalous results too. The number of infectees relative to the size of the population is a very relevant figure.
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A number of related thoughts on this. The vast majority of people who become infected do not die. It is essentially <= 4%, in the U.S. maybe ~1%, who die. So for the vast majority of people, it is just another flu. Most of the people who die are either over 80 or in ill health prior to contracting the virus. It is a commendable sign of our compassion as a species that we are willing to make such a sacrifice for a small percentage of our population, the old and infirm.
The primary value of social isolation is flattening the curve so that the hospital system is less overwhelmed. Does anyone know how much hospital care improves the chances of survival for those who are admitted?
In time, I predict, the effects on the economy of social isolation will be such that we tire of it. We will then begin to shift to isolating the vulnerable, the old and infirm, only. We will also shift to preventative measures for those who need to be around other people. When I go to the grocery store, the cashiers do not have masks or gloves. I would think that they are being placed at high risk for infection. If you wear masks and gloves, is your risk of infection still high? Do you still need social isolation if you're thus protected?
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The primary value of social isolation is flattening the curve so that the hospital system is less overwhelmed.
It also gives time for mitigations, cures and vaccines to be developed.
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
It's just the modern form of thoughts and prayers
Got that covered.
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@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Mason_Wheeler I don't think I've ever seen anyone over 60 with a smartphone.
Cultural difference? My 65 year old dad has a smartphone. His older brother and two older sisters have smartphones. At the yearly family Christmas party (descendents of my great great grandparents, held at the church my great grandma was baptized at) my dad's similar or older aged cousins largely have smartphones. I'm pretty sure their parents mostly have smartphones. It's similar on my mom's (also 65) side of the family too, at least among aunts and uncles.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
When I go to the grocery store, the cashiers do not have masks or gloves.
I heard reports of some chains putting the cashiers behind plastic sheets. Certainly when I was there yesterday they were no longer giving out loyalty stamps. There has also been a call to temporarily ban cash.
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@mikehurley Likely, yeah. I'm from the former eastern bloc, nobody here had a home computer before the early 1990s, and I've seen old catalogs where a brand new 386 cost about as much as a decent apartment at the time. Home computers didn't become widespread till the second half of the 90s, so today's seniors started coming in contact with them in their 40s or later. Or never.
My mom was born in 1952 and she never learned to use a touchpad, she just couldn't figure it out, no matter how many times I showed her.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Mason_Wheeler I don't think I've ever seen anyone over 60 with a smartphone.
Cultural difference? My 65 year old dad has a smartphone. His older brother and two older sisters have smartphones. At the yearly family Christmas party (descendents of my great great grandparents, held at the church my great grandma was baptized at) my dad's similar or older aged cousins largely have smartphones. I'm pretty sure their parents mostly have smartphones. It's similar on my mom's (also 65) side of the family too, at least among aunts and uncles.
Yeah. My grandma uses a computer and (used to) use a smartphone before her vision got really bad. She was never great at it, but she's like 80+.
My parents only use their smart phones. And they're over 60. Heck, we communicate as a family via Marco Polo, one of those short-video chat apps.
I'm pretty sure that my fellow physics teacher (who is over 80) has a smartphone. At least he knows how to use them and apps--we do that every day as part of teaching at a 1:1 ipad school.
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@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My mom was born in 1952 and she never learned to use a touchpad, she just couldn't figure it out, no matter how many times I showed her.
In her defense, touchpads are pretty awful.
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@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My mom was born in 1952 and she never learned to use a touchpad, she just couldn't figure it out, no matter how many times I showed her.
My mom is about 10 years younger than yours, works in IT (AS/400 stuff I think...
) , and she can't grok touchscreens. Anytime I hand her my phone to show her something, she grabs it by the screen and triggers some touch-swipe thing that will close the thing I'm trying to show her. She can't understand grabbing the phone by the edges so she doesn't touch the screen, no matter how many times I tell her.
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@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The progress of the human society in the past century or so is not that we can cure people (in this case, we can't really, or at least not yet). The biggest progress is that we can afford to shut down almost all movement of people, large chunks of the economy... and still have a functioning country.
That's because everybody getting fired due to coronavirus shutdowns is still able to pay for food with their credit cards. Give it a few weeks, and we'll see a very different tale.
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@PleegWat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There has also been a call to temporarily ban cash.
The store was definitely requesting people not pay with cash this morning. Couldn't purchase contactless though: far too large a bill for that…
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@PleegWat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There has also been a call to temporarily ban cash.
The store was definitely requesting people not pay with cash this morning. Couldn't purchase contactless though: far too large a bill for that…
And I read that The Virus can survive for several hours on chrome or polished metal and for over a day on plastic.
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Zecc said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Eurovision Song Contest has been canceled. How will we ever live.
:fa_frontpage:The what now?Related:
As an introvert, I have been preparing my whole life for this.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In her defense, touchpads are pretty awful.
They vary a lot, depending on exactly what the hardware is and what the firmware is. Some are definitely awful, others are really good.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In her defense, touchpads are pretty awful.
They vary a lot, depending on exactly what the hardware is and what the firmware is. Some are definitely awful, others are really good.
I've used touchpads across various brands over the years. I never used one that made me think "this one is awesome" or at least not "this one isn't bad".
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I've used touchpads across various brands over the years. I never used one that made me think "this one is awesome" or at least not "this one isn't bad".
Apple remain the absolute best at this (provided you accept that the GUI uses a slightly different set of basic conventions to other platforms). On Windows it seems very hit and miss, even from a single laptop maker. I had a Dell back in the early-to-mid 2000s which had a reasonable (though not great) touchpad, but other Dell machines I've tried since then have been less good.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My mom was born in 1952 and she never learned to use a touchpad, she just couldn't figure it out, no matter how many times I showed her.
In her defense, touchpads are pretty awful.
Apple touchpads are pretty good and intuitive. In their case they have tight integration the OS. That helps a lot.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I've used touchpads across various brands over the years. I never used one that made me think "this one is awesome" or at least not "this one isn't bad".
Apple remain the absolute best at this (provided you accept that the GUI uses a slightly different set of basic conventions to other platforms). On Windows it seems very hit and miss, even from a single laptop maker. I had a Dell back in the early-to-mid 2000s which had a reasonable (though not great) touchpad, but other Dell machines I've tried since then have been less good.
If Apple is the absolute best, then the absolute best is garbage also. My current job issues Macbooks for whatever reason and it has a giant trackpad. Not a fan. At least it doesn't have a nubby.
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@mott555 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My mom was born in 1952 and she never learned to use a touchpad, she just couldn't figure it out, no matter how many times I showed her.
My mom is about 10 years younger than yours, works in IT (AS/400 stuff I think...
) , and she can't grok touchscreens. Anytime I hand her my phone to show her something, she grabs it by the screen and triggers some touch-swipe thing that will close the thing I'm trying to show her. She can't understand grabbing the phone by the edges so she doesn't touch the screen, no matter how many times I tell her.My father will be 76 this year. Getting him to use (and not break) a smartphone was a bit of a learning curve. This Christmas I got him the Caterpillar phone that is water and dust proof. I also had to get him a stylus pen because he has massive hands and it was hard for him to hit the keys he intended to.
It's been interesting.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I've used touchpads across various brands over the years. I never used one that made me think "this one is awesome" or at least not "this one isn't bad".
Apple remain the absolute best at this (provided you accept that the GUI uses a slightly different set of basic conventions to other platforms). On Windows it seems very hit and miss, even from a single laptop maker. I had a Dell back in the early-to-mid 2000s which had a reasonable (though not great) touchpad, but other Dell machines I've tried since then have been less good.
When a laptop maker has a touchpad that allows me to switch virtual desktops with a three finger swipe I will immediately buy their machines.
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Our youngest's ECE closed until at least April 13th.
Our governor is now suggesting that schools may not reopen until next school year.
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@PleegWat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I heard reports of some chains putting the cashiers behind plastic sheets. Certainly when I was there yesterday they were no longer giving out loyalty stamps. There has also been a call to temporarily ban cash.
In Baltimore, cashiers at gas stations and convenience stores are behind bulletproof glass. So I guess they're a step ahead on this.
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@blek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Actual useful volunteer efforts are organized elsewhere, through old people's homes, universities, and so on, and all these people are doing is sucking potential volunteers away from those.
While I agree with your point that the app authors might be virtue-signalling dweebs, any volunteer who is serious about these things would sign up for a dozen of those apps and go look elsewhere as soon as it becomes clear that no job offers are turning up.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In her defense, touchpads are pretty awful.
They vary a lot, depending on exactly what the hardware is and what the firmware is. Some are definitely awful, others are really good.
It varies by person, too. I can use them to get by but I've never liked them in general. Ditto for trackballs, while some people swear by them.
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
When a laptop maker has a touchpad that allows me to switch virtual desktops with a three finger swipe I will immediately buy their machines.
My non-Apple laptop has that. I thought it was a Windows 10 thing?
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@mott555 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Mason_Wheeler My grandmother is 95 and has never owned a cell phone or computer. I have a 70-year-old aunt who's almost in the same boat and is practically in tears everytime someone says "No we won't help you in person or over a phone call, you need to download this iPhone app." She doesn't even know what "iPhone app" means, much less own an iPhone.
My grandmother died in 2013 just before her 90th birthday. She set it up so her Facebook, twitter and other accounts were deleted after her death.
When I got married in the church in 2002, I sent her pictures via email. She said, I keep trying to adjust the image but it still looks blue (it was pale blue).
I also did my first programming on her TRS-80 in grade school.
I was
alsoalways so proud of her.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Ditto for trackballs, while some people swear by them.
It takes a special kind of person to feel comfortable handling balls at work
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Ditto for trackballs, while some people swear by them.
You can take my trackball from my cold, dead hand.
Though the kind you control with your thumb. IDK how those center-ball ones work.
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@admiral_p said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The Ebola outbreak was, like, eight years ago?
2019 in Congo, but apparently no one cares about Congo.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Might have to do with volumes and distribution networks.
Or marketing. "Our (tap) water is better than your tapwater!" We've already proven how gullible people are...
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