Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications
-
@Parody Popcorn stocks are through the roof
-
@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@error Sanity not
suppliedsupported in this universe. Please return it to the store unopened with your original receipt for a full refund if it is not to your satisfaction. By opening the product packaging and thus gaining access to this terms of service message, you are now bound to the terms located herein, and must now submit all identity credentials to Evil Corp Ltd.FTFY
-
Does it really matter that much?
The only impact to me that a similar change in our corporate policy had was that I needed to replace an Enum with a join to a table of pronouns and genders in a few places. Took about 30 minutes including the database migration script.I know ambivalence is often viewed as opposition to the more progressive and diverse world we live in, however despite all the hype, it really should be noted that the vast majority of us simply don't care. We neither advocate it, nor discourage it, it's just a societal change that our information systems and corporate policies need to take into account.
I should really point out that by "don't care" I do not mean that those who wish to identify according to their own emotions aren't important. This is the reason that society has adapted to accommodate it, simply that it doesn't directly affect most people.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
I should really point out that by "don't care" I do not mean that those who wish to identify according to their own emotions aren't important.
It's important to provide them with psychiatric help.
Which is opposite to letting them dictate how society should look like.This is the reason that society has adapted to accommodate it, simply that it doesn't directly affect most people.
It does affect most people. They just tell themselves that it doesn't, just like you do.
-
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
It's important to provide them with psychiatric help.
Which is opposite to letting them dictate how society should look like.The same goes for literally every politician ever.
I'm big believer in the Serenity Prayer:God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
-
@MrL How does a stranger's belief about their gender affect you? Explain the mechanism by which you are affected.
-
@Captain I think he's getting at the part where you're forced to interact with it on their terms. Which is understandable from either perspective imo.
-
@Captain said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL How does a stranger's belief about their gender affect you? Explain the mechanism by which you are affected.
When a close friend of mine has an error in her medical records stating she's a man, which causes doctors to assume she's a (because such an assumption, with the risk of being wrong, is less risky to the doctor's potential wellbeing than questioning the political orthodoxy), leading to improper prescriptions, leading to complications that put her life at risk, you'd better believe that affects me! This is a thing that has actually happened, and is a currently ongoing problem that is continuing to happen. She doesn't know if she'll still be alive this time next year.
-
@Mason_Wheeler Doctors should be the people most able to deal with this ambiguity. All they need is two fields on their form: one for sex and one for gender. So while that sucks for your friend (and I'm very sorry to hear about it), it seems like it's more the doctor's fault than society's.
-
@Captain When the need to appease fake women to avoid the wrath of society puts the life and health of real women in danger, it very much is society's fault!
-
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
fake women
Take this to the garage where it belongs.
-
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
When a close friend of mine has an error in her medical records stating she's a man
In my experience, medical records are far more detailed than that. I've never worked on a medical information system, however as a cancer patient in remission, I know that detailed records are held and shared between hospitals, specialists and my GP concerning everything that's ever happened to me, every treatment I've had, every medication I'm currently prescribed and have been previously prescribed, the results of every blood test, every scan, etc, etc.
In the case of gender reassignment, or gender identity, I would think that the same level of detail would be recorded, including their original biological gender.
Errors in information systems can cause kinds of problems, however TRWTF is a doctor writing prescriptions without an in-person consultation.
Personally, I also believe that your friend is somewhat to blame. Everyone should take some personal responsibility by researching what drugs they are taking, their side effects, and contraindications.Just because someone has a medical degree doesn't make them infallible, or immune to human error. I've had numerous prescriptions for drugs that after some research turned out to have dangerous interactions with other drugs I was prescribed. The doctor in these cases relied too heavily on automated warnings generated by their computers which are supposed to stop them from prescribing dangerous combinations. I went back and we found a safe substitute, but it still doesn't detract from the importance of double-checking for yourself.
I know this is much easier here in Australia by virtue of the fact that doctor's visits are 100% free, and can be booked in for the same day in almost all cases. I know it's not quite that convenient everywhere in the world.
-
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
fake women
And yet the doctor couldn't tell that she's biologically female and not a trans-man?
What happened to her that put her life at risk that wouldn't have put a trans-man's life at risk?Really, I'm sorry for your friend, but unless you left out important information her doctor must suck.
-
@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
her doctor must suck.
I'm not saying this isn't true. But when societal conditions make a bad situation worse, why not call it as it is? Simply because one factor is legitimately to blame doesn't mean it's the only factor to blame. (In fact, it's usually not. Real life is rarely that simplistic.)
-
While I'm back in this thread, in summary we basically have people who can't agree on a Code of Conduct of "don't be an asshole", but instead we have two idiotic sides of either:
- you must call people by whatever made up nonsense "xyzyggy green soda" pronoun they want to be called without you even knowing it, and using neutral language is not ok either.
- my freedom of speech means I can call you whatever the fuck I want you perverted abomination.
For another data point let's have a look at this moron who actually claims that Stack Exchange showing any political message he disagrees with violates his license agreement not to be associated with it, simply because anything that's displayed site-wide is also displayed on user pages and it wasn't there back when he signed up.
So some fricking rainbow colors in the SE logo imply that he personally endorses SE's political message. Maybe he's just a back-end dork who doesn't understand how tabs / UI work?
-
@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
So some fricking rainbow colors in the SE logo imply that he personally endorses SE's political message. Maybe he's just a back-end dork who doesn't understand how tabs / UI work?
I mean, it's more than just the rainbow colors in the logo, it's also the "We support gay marriage" message right above your profile picture's face. Pretty easy to have that taken out of context to look like the user in question endorses that view.
-
@izzion said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
So some fricking rainbow colors in the SE logo imply that he personally endorses SE's political message. Maybe he's just a back-end dork who doesn't understand how tabs / UI work?
I mean, it's more than just the rainbow colors in the logo, it's also the "We support gay marriage" message right above your profile picture's face. Pretty easy to have that taken out of context to look like the user in question endorses that view.
It's pretty clear that it's not his profile text or image, nor in any way created by him.
-
Also, it's a single data point from 4.5 years ago.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
I know that detailed records are held and shared between hospitals, specialists and my GP concerning everything that's ever happened to me, every treatment I've had, every medication I'm currently prescribed and have been previously prescribed, the results of every blood test, every scan, etc, etc.
Which is why literally every doctor I see requires inpatient forms where I detail all of the above because clearly they just want to know if I'm a pathological liar.
-
@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Also, it's a single data point from 4.5 years ago.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean to imply it's directly related to the current events, sorry if it sounded like it.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
literally every doctor I see requires inpatient forms where I detail all of the above because clearly they just want to know if I'm a pathological liar.
Well, they don't see people claiming to be machines every day...
-
@Mason_Wheeler Oh dear lord, a form is changing! Better get the Supreme Court involved!
-
@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
literally every doctor I see requires inpatient forms where I detail all of the above because clearly they just want to know if I'm a pathological liar.
Well, they don't see people claiming to be machines every day...
In some ways it might be easier if they treated me like one though.
Filed under: Nobody's afraid to ask the machine where to bury the body, but asking a human the same makes you a murderer!
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
In some ways it might be easier if they treated me like one though.
You want to be replaced by something newer and sexier, and end up burnt in a landfill in some third-world country?
I don't judge, but I think we'd miss your upvotes.
-
@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
In some ways it might be easier if they treated me like one though.
You want to be replaced by something newer and sexier, and end up burnt in a landfill in some third-world country?
I don't judge, but I think we'd miss your upvotes.
I don't really care what happens to my shell, but if my ghost is transferred to an upgrade, well why not?
-
Knowing how lucky you are with hardware, you'd end up with:
a) bad sectors
b) kernel panics
c) data loss
d) all of the above
-
@Captain said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL How does a stranger's belief about their gender affect you? Explain the mechanism by which you are affected.
Same way someones belief in nazism doesn't affect me.
Oh wait, we aren't talking about someone's beliefs, but about forcing beliefs on others.
-
@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Knowing how lucky you are with hardware, you'd end up with:
a) bad sectors
b) kernel panics
c) data loss
d) all of the aboveI already have those, so it would still be a net improvement!
-
@MrL You don't have to believe a trans person is a woman. You just have to respect that they do. If that bothers you, that says more about you than them.
Pretty sure that's what the cons say about naziism on here, too.
-
@Captain said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL You don't have to believe a trans person is a woman. You just have to respect that they do. If that bothers you, that says more about you than them.
You're just typing consecutive entries from Leftist Lame Arguments, aren't you?
It's only about love/respect/politeness/compasssion/etc and if you disagree, you are a bad person.
What's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
-
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
What's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
The latter will always have a price, even when we're not talking about leftist views. For example, the freedom of having private property means that nobody else is free to just take stuff they might desire ("but you weren't using it right now, were you?").
You're only getting out of those things if you quit civilization any way you spin it.
-
@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
What's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
The latter will always have a price, even when we're not talking about leftist views.
Sure, I'm not saying it doesn't have a price.
-
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?It's only about love/respect/politeness/compasssion/etc and if you disagree, you are a bad person.
That's how freedom of opinion works. You're free to have an opinion, and I'm free to judge you for it.
EDITED quote.
-
@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
You're only getting out of those things if you quit civilization any way you spin it.
Which comes with a far higher price, too.
-
@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
That's how freedom of opinion works. You're free to have an opinion, and I'm free to judge you for it.
I agree, but what does that have to do with the quotation you made?
-
@Captain said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
You don't have to believe a trans person is a woman. You just have to respect that they do.
What does that mean?
Pretty sure that's what the cons say about naziism on here, too.
Huh? Trans people are socialists?
-
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
That's how freedom of opinion works. You're free to have an opinion, and I'm free to judge you for it.
I agree, but what does that have to do with the quotation you made?
Trackpad fuck-up. I meant to respond to the other line:
It's only about love/respect/politeness/compasssion/etc and if you disagree, you are a bad person.
Fixed.
-
Guys. The Garage is .
-
@Tsaukpaetra I don't know where you're located, it may be different there. Also, due to having a chronic condition, I have a single GP (who I've been seeing for 15 years), who handles all my referrals, and is kept up to date with all the relevant details.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
who handles all my referrals, and is kept up to date with all the relevant details.
Lucky you.
-
@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
you must call people by whatever made up nonsense "xyzyggy green soda" pronoun they want to be called
Come to think of it, I don't think anyone on Stack Exchange has ever addressed me using a pronoun. I've always simply been referred to by either my first name or in rare cases my full name.
It's really bizarre that this storm in a teacup has made so many waves.
-
@Tsaukpaetra Being a cancer patient is hardly my definition of lucky. Yes it's in remission, but needs constant monitoring and prophylactic chemo.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra Being a cancer patient is hardly my definition of lucky. Yes it's in remission, but needs constant monitoring and prophylactic chemo.
So in other words, all I need to get that level of attention to detail is get cancer. Seems easy enough.
-
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
What's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
I don't mean to be rude, but have you ever even encountered a trans person, or been personally inconvenienced by the general consensus of society to respect people's desires to chose their own gender identity?
I'm not talking about whether or not you like the idea, but whether it has actually affected your life at all? If not, why such strong opposition?
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
get cancer. Seems easy enough.
That's pretty harsh man... I'd love to give you a Chemo injection and see how easy you think it is afterwards.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
get cancer. Seems easy enough.
That's pretty harsh man... I'd love to give you a Chemo injection and see how easy you think it is afterwards.
Chemo is the treatment, not how you get cancer. But I'm sure you know that.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Chemo is the treatment
Yes, it's a shame this is the best medical science can come up with so far, but it's agony. So are the final stages of cancer. So chose your poison (literally). My mother died of cancer because she didn't want to face another round of treatment, and in this country, Euthanasia is illegal, so it's suffering either way.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Chemo is the treatment
Yes, it's a shame this is the best medical science can come up with so far, but it's agony. So are the final stages of cancer. So chose your poison (literally). My mother died of cancer because she didn't want to face another round of treatment, and in this country, Euthanasia is illegal, so it's suffering either way.
Yeah, both my grandmothers as well.
Sadly, even then it doesn't help.
-
@idzy said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
What's the next one - 'that's just progress and you are antiquated' or 'this is the price of living in a civilization'?
I don't mean to be rude, but have you ever even encountered a trans person, or been personally inconvenienced by the general consensus of society to respect people's desires to chose their own gender identity?
I'm not talking about whether or not you like the idea, but whether it has actually affected your life at all? If not, why such strong opposition?
Yes, 'it doesn't concern you, so you should agree' is another one, very good.
-
@MrL said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Yes, 'it doesn't concern you, so you should agree' is another one, very good.
Not necessarily agree, ambivalence is always an option.
Unfortunately, we can't all have our own nation state, so some things we're just stuck with. There are plenty of societal norms and laws which I disagree with, some of which actually affect me, which you may well have a different opinion on, and be fully in support of the current cultural status-quo.
For example, I'd love to see sweeping drug law reform, particularly with regard to the availability of opiate pain killers, this affects me directly, as I am in constant pain, and am tired of being treated like a criminal just so I can have some respite from chronic excruciating pain.
More broadly however, I believe that decriminalization of all illicit substances would be a net benefit to society, as it would allow addicts to genuinely recover and properly reintegrate into society (like be able to get a job), without being marginalized by a felony conviction and a jail term, forcing them further and further into the criminal underworld.Another of my personal viewpoints which which doesn't directly affect me is that I believe that stricter gun control in the US would dramatically reduce the number of mass shootings.
Just because I believe these things doesn't mean that society will change for me.