Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness
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@stillwater said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Anyways, I was wondering why did it take them so long to implement this. I'm imagining this would be like flipping two fields basically the background to black and the color to white and colors for maybe a few other things. I know I sound naive as fuck. What would have actually happened? Is this more complicated? I'm curious about the mechanics behind this.
Since it's just the Explorer, I don't think that's naive. After all there are thousands of KDE, GTK and whatever else dark themes kicking online, and those were made by little Johhny over the weekend. Now, some shit breaks with those, Open/LibreOffice being the one applications that don't play well with dark themes, but file managers? Pretty much perfect on every one.
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@stillwater said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Anyways, I was wondering why did it take them so long to implement this. I'm imagining this would be like flipping two fields basically the background to black and the color to white and colors for maybe a few other things. I know I sound naive as fuck. What would have actually happened? Is this more complicated? I'm curious about the mechanics behind this.
There is a little bit of detail in this article:
https://insider.windows.com/en-us/community-news/category/news-categories/inspired-by-insider/Compared to modern parts of Windows, [applying dark theme to] File Explorer was a whole different beast. While dark mode can be applied to modern XAML components in Windows quite easily, File Explorer contains legacy UI frameworks which donât plug into that infrastructure automatically. With File Explorer, we were literally breaking new ground to provide a dark theme to legacy parts of the shell. We also needed to be careful to only change File Explorer (and the Common File Dialog) and not change common controls generally, which could break a lot of app experiences (such as making dark text in an app unreadable).
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@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Got screenshots?
Here you go.
Start menu tile:
Task bar mouse-over:
Task bar right-click:
Start menu:
I've also found the mentioned setting which enables it. I've never disabled it, though.
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@Deadfast Yeah if this was SO, this would be marked as the answer. Nice read.
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Every MB counts on Win10. They count a bit less on Win8.1. But I wouldn't know, 'cos I didn't need to count on either Debian or Ubuntu. The Debian installation never grew beyond 12GB (out of a 32GB eMMC).
A fresh install of Windows 10 on that convertible is about 16 GB with hibernation enabled. I've filled another 16 GB on the internal drive with stuff like Office, a usable web browser or three, media viewers/players, and video games. That still leaves plenty of room for things like installing new versions of Windows.
It also has a 64GB microSD card filled with media files and more video games.
@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
If you're trying to free up space....
Thankfully I'm not. Once upon a time, back when I ran a LAN pit for my friends and the top of the line gaming OS was Windows 98 SE, I messed around with things that would remove various parts of Windows to "speed things up" and "save space". It was more trouble than it was worth then, and given the posts I've read asking for support after breaking various bits of Windows 10 it's more trouble than it's worth now. Yes, there are applications that come with Windows that I never use that currently don't have a right-click-uninstall. Yes, in some cases "uninstalling" them doesn't do anything but remove the icon from the Start Menu for that one user. I'm perfectly happy letting them just sit there on the drive and look stupid, just like Internet Explorer.
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@Parody Well, Windows 10 Spring 2019 Update will allow uninstalling more of the built-in apps! And, who knows, maybe it will automatically uninstall user-installed apps too to expand on the most popular Fall 2018 feature!
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@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Parody Well, Windows 10 Spring 2019 Update will allow uninstalling more of the built-in apps! And, who knows, maybe it will automatically uninstall user-installed apps too to expand on the most popular Fall 2018 feature!
Nah, I think they'll need to find a more ambitious problem if they're going to gun for a third rollback in a row. Maybe something involving user data on services from other companies. :)
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@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@topspin The updates aren't forced, the telemetry isn't forced, and most of the other stuff isn't forced either. Also, the user interface is much better.
He was talking about THIS universe
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@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Yes, there are applications that come with Windows that I never use that currently don't have a right-click-uninstall. Yes, in some cases "uninstalling" them doesn't do anything but remove the icon from the Start Menu for that one user.
You can get rid of most of the built-in "apps" with a Powershell command and have been able to since 8.
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@loopback0 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
You can get rid of most of the built-in "apps" with a Powershell command and have been able to since 8.
The nice thing about Windows is, unlike crappy open-soure OS, you don't need to resort to the CLI to do things
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@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
A fresh install of Windows 10 on that convertible is about 16 GB with hibernation enabled. I've filled another 16 GB on the internal drive with stuff like Office, a usable web browser or three, media viewers/players, and video games. That still leaves plenty of room for things like installing new versions of Windows.
That's quite the contrast. The 12GB on Debian included all of the above, too. (As I said in the edit.) Excluding video games, of which that machine had none. And it had been in use for at least 2 years, so the install was definitely not fresh.
Also, you're not going to stay under 16GB for long. On the machine I'm typing this on, C:\Windows alone is 20.9GB (Size on disk). As far as I know, this machine has not gone through any version upgrades since installed (after previous SSD failed). No UWP apps either.
Notice this article on The Register: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/25/ubuntu_user_data_early_release/ . Reading between the lines (and in the comments), it seems that the most popular non-server platform for running Ubuntu is a repurposed Windows netbook. I assume that the conversion (to Linux) came because they have a 32BG eMMC, and were sold in the 8.1 days when that was sufficient.
The best feature Microsoft could add to Windows now is an opt-in list of checkboxes of what pieces of bloat to include/exclude in the installation. To be presented at installation time and respected ever since. But I'm not holding my breath.
EDIT: Fixed typo.
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@topspin said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Got screenshots?
Here you go.
Start menu tile:
Task bar mouse-over:
Task bar right-click:
Start menu:
I've also found the mentioned setting which enables it. I've never disabled it, though.
Gremlins.
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@loopback0 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
You can get rid of most of the built-in "apps" with a Powershell command and have been able to since 8.
And as I said in the rest of that post: I know, but I don't care to do so.
@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
That's quite the contrast.
Not meaningfully. I'll take giving up a few GB if it means having Windows instead of Linux.
@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Also, you're not going to stay under 16GB for long.
It's been that way for a couple of years now, through four versions of Windows 10. Last night I updated to 1809 and the Windows folder is sitting at ~10 GB. Deleting the previous Windows install (1803) gave back about 8 GB. I have ~16 GB of space empty at the moment.
Look, if others want to run Linux or use Powershell to delete the built-in apps they're perfectly welcome to do so. It was worth it to me to clean install a couple years ago to free up what was otherwise a large chunk of unusable space (the Windows 8.1 restore partition); it's not worth it to mess with it further. I'm happy with how my little tablet works now.
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@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
a usable web browser or three
...IE6, IE11 and Edge?
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@ixvedeusi said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
a usable web browser or three
...IE6, IE11 and Edge?
Oh, come now. Everyone knows Edge isn't usable.
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The update that keeps on giving
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@TimeBandit You beat me by one minute :)
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@Zmaster You have to post BEFORE doing the
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
The update that keeps on giving
In the comments:
Wait, I think you buried the take-away, which is that I can install (and not use) the iCloud client, and not have to worry about overnight stealth-installs breaking everything I own?
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@dcon said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
In the comments:
Paraphrasing another one:
Windows 10, Frustration As A Service.
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@topspin said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
another one:
I made it thru about 2 pages of comments before stopping...
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I wonder which codec they broke; over the years I've had a bunch of files that couldn't seek in various versions of WMP. Not that you want to use it, really. :P
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
The best feature Microsoft could add to Windows now is an opt-in list of checkboxes of what pieces of bloat to include/exclude in the installation. To be presented at installation time and respected ever since. But I'm not holding my breath.
EDIT: Fixed typo.You mean like in Windows 9x?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
You mean like in Windows 9x?
Yeah, but without the multiple BSOD per day
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
You mean like in Windows 9x?
Yeah, but without the multiple BSOD per day
If your installation ran through multiple days, you were probably on unsupported hardware...
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@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Windows folder is sitting at ~10 GB.
How do you you do that? No repro. Win10 1803 (in Finland, if it matters) gives the following:
What, does Windows allocate itself some percentage of the disk now?@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I'm happy with how my little tablet works now.
Well, that's the most important thing. But when the Stockholm syndrome starts to wear off, don't be afraid to seek help.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
If your installation ran through multiple days, you were probably on
unsupportedLinux hardware...
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
What, does Windows allocate itself some percentage of the disk now?
In theory the properties window doesn't account for hard links, which means that a lot of stuff gets counted twice due to WinSxS shenanigans.
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@Tsaukpaetra Figures. Hmm... I'd been meaning to get a disk space usage grapher thingy, anyway. Can you recommend anything?
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Can you recommend anything?
One that can count the Windows folder accurately? Not that I know of. I haven't really needed it.
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@acrow A while ago someone mentioned https://windirstat.net/ in this forum.
It looks cool in a retro kind of way, and it does it job well AFAICT.
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@Zecc And here's the result:
Windows folder is now at 18GB. Still no repro on 10GB.
Main culprit is WinSxS. It seemed to contain many folders, most of them with long names; it is possible that the 2GB shaved were all folder names. No gay porn, anime or otherwise, despite the suggestive name of the folder.
And what the hell is "Panther"?
EDIT: WindowsSxS -> WinSxS
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@acrow Apparently my winsxs (as it is capitalised on my computer) is 12 GB, and Windows is 31.
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@kazitor Google to the help:
Short for Windows Side By Side, WinSxS is a folder in Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8 that stores different copies of DLL and system files. Because programs can use the same DLL file, this folder stores the different files for compatibility reasons and for times older versions need to be restored.
So... copies of DLLs. To allow randon software to keep using old buggy versions instead of the latest patches?
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@Parody
Because it's simple. It basically got abandoned after XP, and thank fsck for that. Every other player is over-engineered to make pancakes and send email. Unless there was an RCE in there or something, whoever touched that code in this update needs his fingers chopped off.
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
To allow randon software to keep using old buggy versions instead of the latest patches?
You say this as if the newer versions are less buggy and updating literally everything six times a week isn't pure churn.
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@Applied-Mediocrity It's still shipping in Windows though, and generally apps that ship with Windows should be considered supported (yes, even Notepad).
Besides, Windows should not break apps that worked in a previous version. That's a big deal for Microsoft apparently.
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@anonymous234 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
generally apps that ship with Windows should be considered supported
I have severe doubts about that, but I'm not going to pull a to find how this or that has been deprecated already well before he could still walk under the kitchen table upright.
And I'll thank them for not touching the old stuff. So they broke a DirectShow codec or the Media Foundation. Because useful and precise information is to be frowned upon nowadays, everybody vomits the same "some people may experience some sort of mischief".
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@topspin said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
You say this as if the newer versions are less buggy and updating literally everything six times a week isn't pure churn.
WARNING: The vulnerabilities of your system are outdated. Please immediately download and install the latest set of system-level zero-day vulnerabilities from your nearest Windows Update service.
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@anonymous234 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Besides, Windows should not break apps that worked in a previous version. That's a big deal for Microsoft apparently.
It used to be that way. But Windows 10 clearly proves they don't care anymore.
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@anonymous234 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
yes, even Notepad
Notepad is supported. It's even got an update recently.
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@Zecc
"Some users may experience issues loading and saving text files in certain programs such as Notepad. Microsoft is hardly working on a resolution and will provide an update that in a further upcoming release breaks Calculator instead."
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
So... copies of DLLs. To allow randon software to keep using old buggy versions instead of the latest patches?
Because the old buggy version will break and/or stop working if you fix any of the bugs.
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@Applied-Mediocrity 4â-2=
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@acrow said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Parody said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Windows folder is sitting at ~10 GB.
How do you you do that? No repro.
The answer is simple, yet something nobody would choose in this day and age if the decision wasn't made for them: this tablet runs 32-bit Windows. The TF100s have a 32-bit UEFI, and you can't run 64-bit Windows with a 32-bit UEFI regardless of the hardware involved.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Because it's simple. ... Every other player is over-engineered to make pancakes and send email.
This is why we all switched to Media Player Classic from Windows Media Player ages ago. :)
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Microsoft is hardly working on a resolution
I see what you did there!
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@PleegWat said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Applied-Mediocrity 4â-2=
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@dcon said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@PleegWat said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Applied-Mediocrity 4â-2=
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@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@topspin It shows it a hell of a lot less, though.
Amusingly, that's the big complaint about the current flat (or whatever buzzword they're using today) design.