Right to repair sold to the highest bidder
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Apparently, if your device has "water damage", they won't touch it. Even for "This hinge is snapped off, I just need a new hinge" repairs.
What a world we live in.
Can you imagine if an auto repair shop refused to replace the windshield wiper blades because the floor mats had mud on them?
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: It looks like you removed your device from its cardboard box. Sorry, there's nothing we can do. Why don't you buy a new one?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Can you imagine if an auto repair shop refused to replace the windshield wiper blades because the floor mats had mud on them?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Apparently, if your device has "water damage", they won't touch it. Even for "This hinge is snapped off, I just need a new hinge" repairs.
This could be a company covering it's own arse - so that people don't send in a water damaged device for a new hinge, then complain after they get it back that there are other issues that "weren't there before".
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@loopback0 said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Apparently, if your device has "water damage", they won't touch it. Even for "This hinge is snapped off, I just need a new hinge" repairs.
This could be a company covering it's own arse - so that people don't send in a water damaged device for a new hinge, then complain after they get it back that there are other issues that "weren't there before".
I only brought my computer in for you to fix a virus, why did you put all this porn on it? Now my wife is mad at me!
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@loopback0 said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Apparently, if your device has "water damage", they won't touch it. Even for "This hinge is snapped off, I just need a new hinge" repairs.
This could be a company covering it's own arse - so that people don't send in a water damaged device for a new hinge, then complain after they get it back that there are other issues that "weren't there before".
Even if Sony refuses to touch the console, people can still claim that it was Sony (or the shipping company) who did the water damage in the first place. So it doesn't get them any ass-covering. It does, however, give them a way to weasel out of legitimate warranty repair requests.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60cNyLdVqMI
It's a conspiracy!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60cNyLdVqMI
It's a conspiracy!
If it were a conspiracy I would have been informed.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31JZwlaSPPI
In response to this article:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/right-to-repair-is-bad-for-your-health-11619986159
The 5:23 timestamp belongs in the "Things that remind you of WTDWTF members" thread.
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@Gąska a few months back at the height of the HODLing videos he got asked why he always sounds so angry and his reply was that actually there's tons of videos where he's calm and not angry at all. It's only when he has to deal with such blatant bullshit that he gets angry.
Well, considering the amount of blatant bullshit he's dealing with, that's not much of a limitation...
thatsmysecret.mp4
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Louis keeps churning out these videos - this one is very fun (although it borders on Garage).
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
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@Zerosquare First time I see "repaired" used as a synonym for "fucked"
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Louis keeps churning out these videos - this one is very fun (although it borders on Garage).
Rossman was very polite about the addressing issue, and as I recall I received the entire orphan soul unharmed.
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@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
Do you want to miss out on getting superpowers? Because that's how you miss out on getting superpowers.
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@Gribnit said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
Do you want to miss out on getting superpowers? Because that's how you miss out on getting superpowers.
Any superpower likely to be received from using a machine “fixed” that way is a superpower I probably don't want. And likely a session with mind-bleach as well.
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@dkf said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gribnit said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
Do you want to miss out on getting superpowers? Because that's how you miss out on getting superpowers.
Any superpower likely to be received from using a machine “fixed” that way is a superpower I probably don't want. And likely a session with mind-bleach as well.
Hey, Henrietta Lacks got immortality. What could go wrong?
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@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
More volts is more better! Turn it up to eleven!
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@TimeBandit said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
By extension there is something broken in the Benioff mansion.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
More volts is more better! Turn it up to eleven!
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@BernieTheBernie said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Do you want a PET scan from a machine with unauthorized adjustments?
Honestly, even he means well, I wouldn't want to get a PET scan from a machine that's been "repaired" by @Tsaukpaetra...
More volts is more better! Turn it up to eleven!
Surely they are suggesting this only because the contact scrubbing brush is at the factory for its yearly maintenance.
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@TimeBandit uh... this is not an easy position for a closed source software company to take, past a certain point. Also it doesn't seem relevant for them.
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@Gąska time for Outrage, aren't XOs overreach?
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@Gribnit said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska time for Outrage, aren't XOs overreach?
That is actually answered in the video. Executive summary: we don't give a shit about your political affiliations.
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The video this refers to is already in the Tesla thread but as usual Louis' point is more generic
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Louis said in the comments:
"This video has been confirmed by manual review as not suitable for most advertisers"
...why?
Who are the advertisers? Tesla? I am going to make as many videos on the automotive industry & Tesla being bad with right to repair as I want. Joke's on you youtube, I have a dayjob. 😂
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@topspin said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gribnit said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska time for Outrage, aren't XOs overreach?
That is actually answered in the video. Executive summary: we don't give a shit about your political affiliations.
This is a bad way to look at it. If this were an overreach by Biden, liberals are supposed to be against it as well.
On the other hand, that "if" does a lot of work.
Biden is instructing an executive branch agency to hew more closely to his interpretation of a law passed by Congress. That's the only legitimate use of an executive order.
If you follow me in the Garage, you'll know I'm the furthest thing from a Biden fan. I'm not sure whether I agree with what he's doing here.
But what he's not doing is abusive executive orders.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hlsN0c7Zw
TLDR: manufacturers claim right to repair is dangerous because unauthorized repairers don't know how to do repairs safely.
FTC: "So how about you share your repair manuals with them so they know how to do it safely, you dipshits?"
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hlsN0c7Zw
TLDR: manufacturers claim right to repair is dangerous because unauthorized repairers don't know how to do repairs safely.
FTC: "So how about you share your repair manuals with them so they know how to do it safely, you dipshits?"
"You dipshits" needs to be a legal term.
In small, some devs and or dev teams build a career into each application. This persists past when I read the code b/c, well, what sort of sane person would let me fire people? But the notion of an eternally dedicated product team pushes toward perverse incentive.
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I love this.
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
FTC: "So how about you share your repair manuals with them so they know how to do it safely, you dipshits?"
INB4: "What manual?"
Apple laptops are actually a prime example of something that's non-serviceable in the traditional sense. Louis is soldering components off and on motherboards, which is highly specialized work. Don't expect there to ever be a manual for that. A generalized schematic at most.
Note that I'm not against the right to repair what you own. Quite the opposite. I'm just saying that there won't be a manual.
Also, the whole "what if someone dies" angle is a red herring. It's trivial to tackle with an exception for things that actually need to be certified, as all life-support and medical equipment is.
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@acrow said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Apple laptops are actually a prime example of something that's non-serviceable in the traditional sense. Louis is soldering components off and on motherboards, which is highly specialized work. Don't expect there to ever be a manual for that. A generalized schematic at most.
I imagine they're referring to things like battery replacement, screen replacement etc.
Replacing whole parts rather than messing about with components of those parts.
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@loopback0 said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@acrow said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Apple laptops are actually a prime example of something that's non-serviceable in the traditional sense. Louis is soldering components off and on motherboards, which is highly specialized work. Don't expect there to ever be a manual for that. A generalized schematic at most.
I imagine they're referring to things like battery replacement, screen replacement etc.
Replacing whole parts rather than messing about with components of those parts.True. But in that case they'd be mandated to publish the interface spec. That is, battery voltages and battery-manager-IC interface for the battery. And the full protocol spec for the display they used (the layer above LVDS). Which is doable, I suppose. (But still not exactly a manual.)
I wouldn't want to mandate Apple to sell the replacement parts as such, because then the problem of franken-Apples (and other franken-products) would appear. If the components are sold without the normal profit margin that is. But if they do apply the normal margin, I expect them to be accused of extortionate spare parts pricing.
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@acrow Automotive spare parts are sold at a price that prohibits vehicles being build purely from spare parts... yet they are inexpensive enough that you don't even see a secondary market for many of them. The ones that do have a secondary market usually allow a repairer the option of choosing a cheaper but lower quality replacement, or a more expensive but higher quality replacement.
This isn't new territory. Back when the phone company was allowed to prohibit any phone except theirs, rampant price gouging was the norm. Once people were allowed to purchase their own phone, there was not an epidemic of house fires, as the phone company predicted.
@acrow said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
they'd be mandated to publish the interface spec
That's not the only path. They could also be prohibited from enforcing exclusivity contracts with their suppliers. Since repairers would buy at lower volume, this naturally creates a market where repair parts cost marginally higher than Apple's cost.
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@acrow said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
I'm just saying that there won't be a manual.
Sometimes there's no manual available even to the manufacturer. The setup for things like delay lines in RAM controllers is… absolutely horrendous, and the code that does the deed is typically almost entirely not understood. The datasheet will probably just say “block of 16 registers that configures the RAM controller” without saying what any of that shit actually does, or explaining why exactly this sequence of values needs to be written to it. Absolute complete magical mystery hardware. Networking hardware can be almost as obscure too.
One of these days, the RAM controller makers will create a datasheet worth a fucking damn. That day is not today.
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@acrow said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
FTC: "So how about you share your repair manuals with them so they know how to do it safely, you dipshits?"
INB4: "What manual?"
You've never pirated confidential-internal-use PDFs from sketchy Russian warez sites? Man, you're missing out. 150 pages of detailed instructions how to disassemble and reassemble every single part in a laptop. Those things exist, they're just hidden from general public.
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@dkf said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
delay lines in RAM controllers ... magical mystery hardware. Networking hardware can be almost as obscure too.
One I've dealt with recently is RNG hardware. ARM licenses a TRNG block you can put into your chip. AFAICT, it probably uses electrical noise on the chip as its source of entropy, because the configuration must be redone for any change to the chip logic or layout.
The way the configuration process works like this:
- You run a test while increasing a certain parameter until the test doesn't fail. This gives you the minimum value of this parameter for which the RNG works at all.
- Run this test again with the minimum value of that parameter and 2 multiples of that parameter. Do this a whole bunch of times on multiple chips (at different process corners) at different voltages and temperatures. This generates a bunch of files full of random numbers, which you then send off to ARM for statistical analysis.
- ARM replies, "Write these values to these configuration registers, and run the final tests at these voltages, temperatures and process corners," which represent the typical and worst case randomness for the RNG on this particular chip.
- You run the tests again and generate a few more MB of random numbers and send those to ARM, who again do statistical analysis and say either, yes, use that configuration for production, or sometimes
GOTO 3
with slightly different values.
You, as the licensee of the TRNG block, have little or no idea what those values actually do to the RNG hardware. You just trust ARM that they give you the best possible randomness.
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@HardwareGeek let's be honest. Even if you knew what it does, you still wouldn't be able to adjust it correctly by yourself.
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@loopback0 said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@acrow said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Apple laptops are actually a prime example of something that's non-serviceable in the traditional sense. Louis is soldering components off and on motherboards, which is highly specialized work. Don't expect there to ever be a manual for that. A generalized schematic at most.
I imagine they're referring to things like battery replacement, screen replacement etc.
Replacing whole parts rather than messing about with components of those parts.If you watched Rossmann's other recent video that was posted here, those repairs are outsourced to trained monkeys working in literal sweatshop conditions (air conditioning doesn't work in Texas summer) for low wages (barely above what some people think "do you want fries with that?" should get). And (surprise!) those monkeys are pushed for throughput, not quality. I don't remember what their quota is reported to be, but they get only a few minutes per device. They "repair" a dozen laptops in the time it takes Rossmann to desolder one chip. But who cares if they scrap a $1000 motherboard rather than a $0.05 capacitor; the customer pays for it, not them.
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@HardwareGeek let's be honest. Even if you knew what it does, you still wouldn't be able to adjust it correctly by yourself.
I suspect someone who was sufficiently motivated could reverse-engineer the IP and figure it out, but since (I assume) that analysis and config info is one of the things you pay for through the licensing fee to use the IP, there's not much incentive to do that.
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@HardwareGeek said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
ARM licenses a TRNG block you can put into your chip
That's one we don't use; we have our own IP for random number generation. In particular, we need (in some scenarios) to be able to seed the RNG so we get exact reproducibility and we need to generate lots of random numbers very quickly, and we don't need to be able to resist state-level security threats. It's a simulator, not a crypto module!
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
150 pages of detailed instructions how to disassemble and reassemble every single part in a laptop.
Oddly, reassembly generally requires adding a wire loop.
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@Gąska said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@HardwareGeek let's be honest. Even if you knew what it does, you still wouldn't be able to adjust it correctly by yourself.
It's an RNG, you test it v the NIST battery. Maybe they have some more spiffics they're looking for because it's a shitty, fiddly homoprocess RNG i.e. RF-based. Get a damn isotope decay card.
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According to the court document, Taylor's COO admits that it sought to obtain a Kytch device "in order to evaluate and assess its potential technology-related impacts upon our Soft Serve Machine—such as whether the radio frequency of the Kytch device would interfere with our software signal, or whether the Kytch device would drain the power source of our software and/or cause it malfunction,"
TDEMSYR