Microsoft Build 2018
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@magus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@parody but javascript is horrible at data types...
I suspect that it will actually run Typescript.
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@magus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
but javascript is horrible at data types...
So is Excel, ∴ match made in heaven...
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@japonicus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@magus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
but javascript is horrible at data types...
So is Excel, ∴ match made in heaven...
As long as they don't go on any dates they should be fine, right? What ever could go wrong?
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@benjamin-hall said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@japonicus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@magus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
but javascript is horrible at data types...
So is Excel, ∴ match made in heaven...
As long as they don't go on any dates they should be fine, right? What ever could go wrong?
or strings or large integers.
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@japonicus Or the ever-popular strings that look like numbers.
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@hardwaregeek said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@japonicus Or the ever-popular strings that look like numbers.
Even tho you start them with a quote. (I know it looks like a number, STFU!)
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Microsoft has like 80,000 employees and not of them could improve this stinker of a joke? Sheesh.
I always thought Alexa was an Amazon product, no?
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@japonicus They can't even get floating point right.
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@parody said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@unperverted-vixen said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@parody said in Microsoft Build 2018:
I can't wait to see what excitement tomorrow will bring. :/
ASP.NET Core 3: Now supporting WebForms.
I don't do .NET web coding, but they are adding WinForms, WPF, and UWP to .NET Core so you might get something along those lines.
holy shit what
XAML on Linux? Too good to be true.
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@pie_flavor said in Microsoft Build 2018:
holy shit what
XAML on Linux? Too good to be true.They'll still be Windows-only, they'll just support running on .NET Core (better perf, standalone install) in addition to full framework.
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@unperverted-vixen Hurray for cross-platform platform-specific libraries!
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@jbert said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@unperverted-vixen Hurray for cross-platform platform-specific libraries!
Yeah, that's what I thought. Isn't .NET Core supposed to be, like, cross-platform? Completely? Because that's why System.Drawing is so lacking right now.
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@pie_flavor said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Yeah, that's what I thought. Isn't .NET Core supposed to be, like, cross-platform? Completely?
It started out that way. Now pragmatism and common sense are beginning to take root.
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@masonwheeler Then what the fuck's the point?
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- Core remains open source, so it gets faster iterative development and better code quality
- The base framework remains cross-platform
- Cross-platform business logic can be put in one assembly, with platform-specific UI in its own assembly, all on Core (this is the thing that couldn't be done, unless you're using Xamarin)
All in all, this is very much a positive development
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@masonwheeler If we actually get cross platform XAML, or even platform specific XAML but on all platforms, I will be immeasurably happy.
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@pie_flavor said in Microsoft Build 2018:
platform specific XAML but on all platforms
That makes much more sense. Cross-platform doesn't because different platforms simply have different UI conventions. Cross-platform apps usually look shit on all platforms, but tend to look most shit on platforms that they weren't originally developed on.
There are rare exceptions to the “cross-platform = shit” rule, but they do that by internally having a separate UI layer for each supported platform and hiding that they're doing that from you. That's not that complicated to do, but it is quite time-consuming and requires a lot of experience with using all the platforms concerned or you end up with an ugly chimera on all platforms.
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@pie_flavor They announced XAML Standard being part of .Net Standard quite a while ago. I assume that's still happening.
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@magus said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@pie_flavor They announced XAML Standard being part of .Net Standard quite a while ago. I assume that's still happening.
Well, the GItHub repo's still there, although it hasn't been committed to since November. :face_with_stuck-out_tongue: But XAML Standard isn't a separate product you can code to like .NET Standard. It's more a set of principles and least-common-denominator tags that the various XAML dialects will adopt.
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@pie_flavor said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@parody said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@unperverted-vixen said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@parody said in Microsoft Build 2018:
I can't wait to see what excitement tomorrow will bring. :/
ASP.NET Core 3: Now supporting WebForms.
I don't do .NET web coding, but they are adding WinForms, WPF, and UWP to .NET Core so you might get something along those lines.
holy shit what
XAML on Linux? Too good to be true.Not on Linux.
https://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.net/media/2018/05/dotnet-core3.png
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
open source, so it gets ... better code quality
How does that follow logically?
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@jaloopa
It's cute when Blakey does it, but you? Be serious. Linus's Law is a thing for a reason.
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Linus's Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus's_Law
In Facts and Fallacies about Software Engineering, Robert Glass refers to the law as a "mantra" of the open source movement, but calls it a fallacy due to the lack of supporting evidence and because research has indicated that the rate at which additional bugs are uncovered does not scale linearly with the number of reviewers; rather, there is a small maximum number of useful reviewers, between two and four, and additional reviewers above this number uncover bugs at a much lower rate
Yeah, sounds like a real strong law.
You can't just present something like "it's open source therefore better code quality" and not have it challenged. That's not a logically valid chain of reasoning
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@hungrier said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@mott555 Why not skip all that complexity and just use blockgraph?
You idiot. Graphchain is clearly superior.
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@jaloopa said in Microsoft Build 2018:
In Facts and Fallacies about Software Engineering, Robert Glass refers to the law as a "mantra" of the open source movement, but calls it a fallacy due to the lack of supporting evidence
So there's no supporting evidence? Definitely nothing like:
and because research has indicated that the rate at which additional bugs are uncovered does not scale linearly with the number of reviewers; rather, there is a small maximum number of useful reviewers, between two and four, and additional reviewers above this number uncover bugs at a much lower rate
Yeah. Nothing at all stating that more reviewers do in fact uncover more bugs. Nope.
Yeah, sounds like a real strong law.
The guy's misstating the principle in order to denigrate it; that's the literal definition of a strawman argument. No one ever claimed that the improvement must be linear, only that it exists, which Glass's research does in fact support. The fact that the improvement is incremental is irrelevant when you have a model that can attract thousands of reviewers instead of "two or four." (The CoreCLR project, for example, has currently been forked by over 2300 users on GitHub.)
You can't just present something like "it's open source therefore better code quality" and not have it challenged. That's not a logically valid chain of reasoning
Could we please have it challenged by someone other than a highly biased academic who makes absurd predictions like the following?
Writing in IEEE Software in 2000, Glass criticized open-source software, predicting that it will not reach far, and "will be limited to one or a few cults emerging from a niche culture." Glass's basis for this bold prediction was that open-source software "goes against the grain of everything I know about the software field".
Fast forward less than two decades, and even Microsoft, one of the strongest crusaders against OSS in the early years, is adopting the model on some of its core products because they can't help but recognize the benefits!
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Could we please have it challenged by someone other than a highly biased academic
the challenge is "you've made a claim with no supporting evidence. Do you have anything to support it?". So far, we've had condescension, naming a law with no explanation and then finally a small amount of actually stating why you think the claim is valid
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Could we please have it challenged by someone other than a highly biased academic who makes absurd predictions like the following?
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@hungrier Heartbleed is the exception that proves the rule. When people looked into how this could have happened, they discovered that there was essentially no reviewing going on at all in OpenSSL, despite the entire Web depending on it. Once this oversight was publicized, a whole lot of people with relevant expertise started pitching in and auditing the code, and its quality has increased dramatically since then.
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@masonwheeler And how many other important packages have similar issues where everyone assumes someone else has looked at it?
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@masonwheeler In this case, there's no visible difference between "exception that proves the rule" and "common practice that everyone assumes doesn't happen because of open source platitudes" until something happens.
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@jaloopa I haven't actually heard of any, have you?
@hungrier said in Microsoft Build 2018:
common practice
[citation needed]
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"exception that proves the rule" is the most moronic statement in wide circulation I ever heard.
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
I haven't actually heard of any, have you?
That's the thing about bugs that haven't been discovered...
In other news, what happened to all the unmarked police cars that are supposed to be around?
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@mrl said in Microsoft Build 2018:
"exception that proves the rule" is the most moronic statement in wide circulation I ever heard.
It makes more sense if you know that "prove" has an archaic meaning similar to "test", as in a proving ground
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
[citation needed]
Something as high profile as OpenSSL was f'd, suggesting that less-important projects likely suffer from the same sort of thing.
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@jaloopa said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@mrl said in Microsoft Build 2018:
"exception that proves the rule" is the most moronic statement in wide circulation I ever heard.
It makes more sense if you know that "prove" has an archaic meaning similar to "test", as in a proving ground
Perhaps there's some room for interpretation in english, though it still doesn't make sense to me.
Plus, it's used in polish too, where there's no ambiguity and it just sounds moronic (yet it's very popular and viewed as a valid argument in discussion).
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@jaloopa said in Microsoft Build 2018:
That's the thing about bugs that haven't been discovered...
Flag on the play. Placing the onus on opponent to prove a negative. 15 LOC penalty.
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Flag on the play
That's going to annoy the actors.
@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
15 LOC penalty
What do lines of code have to do with anything?
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@jaloopa OK, was that a
on your part or are you being deliberately obtuse? (It was a joke that ought to be readily understood by any American, but sometimes it's hard to keep track of who's from where around here.)
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
was that a on your part or are you being deliberately obtuse?
Yes
@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
readily understood by any American
And by extension, anybody with a pulse.
I assume it's something to do with your weird forms of sportsball you have over there? I dunno, it came across as a bit word salad to me
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@jaloopa said in Microsoft Build 2018:
I assume it's something to do with your weird forms of sportsball you have over there?
This. "Flag on the play, 15 yard penalty" is something that a referee in football might reasonably pronounce upon a team that's committed a serious enough violation.
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@masonwheeler Fascinating
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@jaloopa said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
Could we please have it challenged by someone other than a highly biased academic
the challenge is "you've made a claim with no supporting evidence. Do you have anything to support it?". So far, we've had condescension, naming a law with no explanation and then finally a small amount of actually stating why you think the claim is valid
Haaaaave you met mason?
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@boomzilla No. Only four people from this forum have ever met me, and three of them are no longer active here.
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
15 LOC penalty
What the fuck is that? Location? Level of consciousness? Leadership obtaining confidence?
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@jaloopa said in Microsoft Build 2018:
I assume it's something to do with your weird forms of sportsball you have over there?
This. "Flag on the play, 15 yard penalty" is something that a referee in football might reasonably pronounce upon a team that's committed a serious enough violation.
You said "LOC" not "yard'. What even?
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@tsaukpaetra Lines of Code, which was the part that Jaloopa actually understood from that joke.
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft Build 2018:
@tsaukpaetra Lines of Code, which was the part that Jaloopa actually understood from that joke.
Hold on, running this through abstract analysis and innuendo processor interpreters....