UI Bites
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Dear Ubuntu, I will root you...
Bernie@Ubuntu:~$ sudo apt update && apt full-upgrade Hit:1 http://azure.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy InRelease Hit:2 http://azure.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-updates InRelease Hit:3 http://azure.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-backports InRelease Hit:4 http://azure.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-security InRelease Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done Reading state information... Done 34 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them. E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied) E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?
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@BernieTheBernie Yes, you need two
sudo
s in that line.
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@PleegWat
sudo
is short forsuck && do
.
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@BernieTheBernie said in UI Bites:
@PleegWat
sudo
is short forsuck && do
.I always thought it was
shut up && do
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@BernieTheBernie Yes, you need two
sudo
s in that line.Or:
sudo bash -c 'apt update && apt full-upgrade'
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@BernieTheBernie you need to install
fuck
.
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@remi seems like a magic version of DWIM that can even recover from permissions issues?
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@remi Can it recover from someone mistyping
fuck
?
Trick question: it's too engrained for anyone to mistype.
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@BernieTheBernie Yes, you need two
sudo
s in that line.Or:
sudo bash -c 'apt update && apt full-upgrade'
Or, if you're a savage like me...
sudo apt update sudo apt full-upgrade
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@loopback0 said in UI Bites:
@BernieTheBernie Yes, you need two
sudo
s in that line.Or:
sudo bash -c 'apt update && apt full-upgrade'
Or, if you're a savage like me...
sudo apt update sudo apt full-upgrade
A savage would likely do something more like:
sudo su - apt update ...
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@Arantor @Zecc I don't know, do I look like someone who would actually read (or in anyway know anything about) the link they just posted?
Seriously though: I always only ever thought of this (and DWIM) as some sort of joke, so I never looked at it for real. I don't know if other people use it seriously. It wouldn't really help me much in real life, because I'm not doing a huge amount of CLI and what I do and that trips me up is mostly e.g. coming up with the right
sed
command to reformat stuff, so I don't think those commands could help me there.
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@remi DWIM was a real tool that existed; the earliest incarnation was from a developer who made common mistakes and largely wrote it to fix his own mistakes for him.
The problem with DWIM is that it could easily mis-guess the “what I mean” part and do something hilariously, or hideously, wrong.
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/D/DWIM.html definition 4 for the canonical example of DWIM perhaps not being a good idea.
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@BernieTheBernie Yes, you need two
sudo
s in that line.Or:
sudo bash -c 'apt update && apt full-upgrade'
Are you
bash
ingsudo
?
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@loopback0 said in UI Bites:
@BernieTheBernie Yes, you need two
sudo
s in that line.Or:
sudo bash -c 'apt update && apt full-upgrade'
Or, if you're a savage like me...
sudo apt update sudo apt full-upgrade
A savage would likely do something more like:
sudo su - apt update ...
I dip into my savage sometimes when I know I'm just going to be prefixing many commands in a row with
sudo
anyways. It's not like there's a security detriment to not doing it...
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@Tsaukpaetra Unless you can't. The feature
sudo
was specifically designed for, but almost nobody actually uses, is to only allow specific commands for specific users. Therefore it is possible, though not likely, that you were allowedsudo apt
, but notsudo su
norsudo bash
.
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@Tsaukpaetra Unless you can't. The feature
sudo
was specifically designed for, but almost nobody actually uses, is to only allow specific commands for specific users. Therefore it is possible, though not likely, that you were allowedsudo apt
, but notsudo su
norsudo bash
.True. The wisdom was lost rather quickly once it became cargo cult.
Much in the same was UAC has become a largely ignored ritual. You were supposed to be able to verify what you were agreeing to, and have a reasonable understanding of why.... But alas, convenience trumps.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
You were supposed to be able to verify what you were agreeing to
if only it ever actually told you which process it wants to run elevated.
And it's not getting better either. Occasionally, usually after restart, I get a login pop-up that isn't linked to any application in any obvious way—and usually it's something like OneDrive or Teams or other part of Office.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
You were supposed to be able to verify what you were agreeing to
if only it ever actually told you which process it wants to run elevated.
Doesn't it?
It's a little less useful for some programs that self elevate without identifying, but most of them are kinda-mostly displayed properly.
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@Tsaukpaetra Over time I've seen several variants of the dialog. Some indicate the application at least as you show, some don't.
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@Tsaukpaetra Over time I've seen several variants of the dialog. Some indicate the application at least as you show, some don't.
Yup, as I said, the elevating app is supposed to explain itself, but doesn't need to. It's annoying....
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@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
You were supposed to be able to verify what you were agreeing to
if only it ever actually told you which process it wants to run elevated.
Doesn't it?
...
It's a little less useful for some programs that self elevate without identifying, but most of them are kinda-mostly displayed properly.
I'm used to this style:
Which usually shows you the path to it in the "Show more details" but not much else. Woo!
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@Parody That is still faaaar too concrete. I'd prefer something like
Do you want to allow unknown from an unknown publisher to make unknown changes to your device?
Unknown.ukn
Publisher: Unknown
File origin: Unknown
Show more unknowns
Unknown - Unknown
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@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
You were supposed to be able to verify what you were agreeing to
if only it ever actually told you which process it wants to run elevated.
Doesn't it?
It's a little less useful for some programs that self elevate without identifying, but most of them are kinda-mostly displayed properly.
So tell me, do you, or do you not, trust whatever 32-bit cmd.exe is going to do?
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@PleegWat cmd itself I'd trust, but the hot garbage being fed into it is something else entirely.
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@PleegWat cmd itself I'd trust, but the hot garbage being fed into it is something else entirely.
This. I'm really disappointed they couldn't also include the invoking parameters and other context.
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Got to love it when web monkeys sort first and translate second:
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@topspin Sometimes it's Hard™—though in this case it shouldn't be.
All sorts of weird problems occur when the list is sent by the back-end, paginated, and nobody thought the server will need to take the language into consideration, or even know the translations. Because translations are otherwise generally handled on the front-end only.
However, this list is fixed and there is absolutely no reason to paginate it, so …
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Got to love it when web monkeys sort first and translate second:
A past company I was at kind of did that. But we didn't sort first, there was a fixed order. This was actually convenient when I had to test something in one of those hieroglyphic languages. I always knew English was the Nth one in the list so I could get back!
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Got to love it when web monkeys sort first and translate second:
Österreich will definitely end up in the right place them.
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:australien: You guys are scrolling?
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@kazitor Yes. Because it hidden in nowhere below
Afghanistan
,Albania
,Andorra
,...
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Trying to submit Mass RMV report using the PDF form. The checkbox doesn't toggle unless you click the tiny circle. Zoom as is needful.
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Dear Visual Studio Community Edition 2022 (Version 17.8.3), do you understand the difference between
expected
andactual
?
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@BernieTheBernie Those advanced suggestions are some form of low-end language model, so it suggests whatever is common in the training set. And Yoda conditionals are so much against common mentality that order not matching the argument names is probably the more common. Yoda conditionals are weird.
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Status: I... wouldn't call complete failure "Partial"
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Consistency bites
If only there was some kind of control meant to turn things on and off
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@Applied-Mediocrity What would an "mixed status" of that control look like? What would clicking on the thumb do? How expensive is it to keep that status up to date?
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@TwelveBaud said in UI Bites:
@Applied-Mediocrity What would an "mixed status" of that control look like? What would clicking on the thumb do? How expensive is it to keep that status up to date?
Well because checkboxes are so 1990s and now it's that slick little toggle (which is coming to browsers any day now as a native control), I've never seen that toggle with an indeterminate state.
I'd have to assume that it doesn't exist but if it did, the dot would be in the middle, the outline blue but otherwise not filled in as per the off status.
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@TwelveBaud said in UI Bites:
What would an "mixed status" of that control look like?
Disabled control. Some folk used to do that while the action it performs was not finished. Seems to be a lost art.
And if it's very expensive, it may need a modal popup that disables the entire owner window.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
Consistency bites
If only there was some kind of control meant to turn things on and off
Also great consistency: to have things appear on screen, you have to turn some of these options on, but another off.
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I'd have to assume that it doesn't exist but if it did, the dot would be in the middle, the outline blue but otherwise not filled in as per the off status.
Close. The shaded portion (on the left of the thombler) would be gray instead of PRIMARY.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
Consistency bites
If only there was some kind of control meant to turn things on and off
It's so nobody knows whether to judge you for your choice of tab positioning when a screenshot of the setting works its way onto the interwebs.
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@TwelveBaud said in UI Bites:
@Applied-Mediocrity What would an "mixed status" of that control look like? What would clicking on the thumb do? How expensive is it to keep that status up to date?
Well because checkboxes are so 1990s and now it's that slick little toggle (which is coming to browsers any day now as a native control), I've never seen that toggle with an indeterminate state.
I'd have to assume that it doesn't exist but if it did, the dot would be in the middle, the outline blue but otherwise not filled in as per the off status.
Yes, fuck Apple, fuck these toggle slides, and fuck everyone who copied them.
At least on the iPhone it’s pretty clear what is on and what is off. Some copies of these abominations (Windows) are more like coin flips. What the fuck was wrong with a check box?
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What the fuck was wrong with a check box?
Nothing really. It was just no longer fashionable.
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@Bulb What's wrong with doing a hybrid, as in this rough mock-up?
Like that, you have the hot slide-y goodness yet also a clear checkmark when the silly thing is turned on.
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@dkf it's not fashionable enough for Apple.
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What's the actual issue with this style of toggle?
Assuming they're used consistently like on an iPhone, and not the hot mess that Edge uses which would be just as shit with checkboxes.
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@loopback0 said in UI Bites:
What's the actual issue with this style of toggle?
It's hard to be very sure if the damn thing is on or off at a glance. Colour isn't enough of an indicator (it's very culturally-dependent) and being in the left or right position means nothing by itself. As these toggles aren't physical things, there's simply no reason they can't show an additional indicator (when "on") to make it much clearer.