Big list of webapps masquerading as native
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@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
You are a power user. You should have more RAM.
But an extra 8GB of RAM costs >50€.
With that money I could buy, like, a new Wii game. Or 15 PC games.
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@anonymous234 I'm sure that'll be rebalanced in the next patch.
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@Arantor said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@Adynathos no, you underestimate it.
A typical game has maybe 15 controls for most operations. Yes, there are exceptions (MMOs come to mind, but these already have a high learning curve and most people don't rebind)
Now go look up how many shortcuts there are for, say, Word. And remember, the group of people here is a very different group from the motivated gamer who cares.
Where I work, our app has 122 accelerators. We're running out of usable key combinations.
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@blakeyrat said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
people who spend a couple months getting used to ReSharper can't use stock VS anymore
Well, you do have to admit - that's probably their goal...
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@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
You are a power user. You should have more RAM.
Nope. I am a technical person, which means I actually know that creating a complex application that doesn't eat up all my RAM is and has always been technically possible. As opposed to a non-technical person who will be forced to accept the situation and buy
more RAMa completely new machine because apparently displaying a bunch of nicely animated colored text is not within the capabilities of your last-year high-end machine.
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@Yamikuronue said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
I have like 24-32 GB ram on my various machines
So long as you realize that that's highly unusual. The average is 6-8GB.
Yeah! I thought I was bitchin' when I got 16 Gb!
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@Tsaukpaetra i only have 8gb RAM - it's the weak point on this home PC tbh.
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@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
I was thinking someone like my mother, who opens one browser tab, and reads everything inside that, because she is not very crafty with multitasking.
I'm certain that explains my grandma, who had no less than 26 tabs on one window because she couldn't figure out that's what was happening when she opened a certain unnamed site that liked to open every link in
_blank
.
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@dcon said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@Arantor said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@Adynathos no, you underestimate it.
A typical game has maybe 15 controls for most operations. Yes, there are exceptions (MMOs come to mind, but these already have a high learning curve and most people don't rebind)
Now go look up how many shortcuts there are for, say, Word. And remember, the group of people here is a very different group from the motivated gamer who cares.
Where I work, our app has 122 accelerators. We're running out of usable key combinations.
Download Dwarf Fortress and open data/interface.txt.
Or just look at this reverse-engineered enumeration: https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/0e8313dc86617796b7145a306df274a882474175/df.keybindings.xml#L4
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
I was thinking someone like my mother, who opens one browser tab, and reads everything inside that, because she is not very crafty with multitasking.
I'm certain that explains my grandma, who had no less than 26 tabs on one window because she couldn't figure out that's what was happening when she opened a certain unnamed site that liked to open every link in
_blank
.My mom likes to open about 20 articles from Yahoo news or JSOnline in tabs on her (512MB RAM) iPad 2 and then complains that the internet is too slow when it can't hold a few hundred megabytes of memory in each tab. Usually, it crashes before she gets to the end of her reading session.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
I was thinking someone like my mother, who opens one browser tab, and reads everything inside that, because she is not very crafty with multitasking.
I'm certain that explains my grandma, who had no less than 26 tabs on one window because she couldn't figure out that's what was happening when she opened a certain unnamed site that liked to open every link in
_blank
.I have lots of tabs open. In lots of windows. I guess I don't like closing them very much. ;)
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@powerlord said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Normally, I'd let this pass, except that those parts don't look like a browser. I mean, really, how much like a web browser does the STORE page of the Steam client look?
Have you ever navigated to the Steam Store in Chrome? It's http://store.steampowered.com/ if you haven't. (Yes, HTTP not HTTPS).
I've never done anything in Chrome, thanks. And I know it does HTTP. The store page in the client does HTTP (the alarms I get are HTTP alarms, and I don't have the HTTPS MITM decrypter on my UTM active), and I don't see why they would do anything different in an actual browser.
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@marczellm said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Nope. I am a technical person, which means I actually know that creating a complex application that doesn't eat up all my RAM is and has always been technically possible. As opposed to a non-technical person who will be forced to accept the situation and buy more RAM a completely new machine because apparently displaying a bunch of nicely animated colored text is not within the capabilities of your last-year high-end machine.
Sure it's technically possible.
Just not financially feasible.
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@cartman82 besides, any reason to upgrade a computer is a good reason. so you upgrade and then still don't use that software because it would be a resource hog and waste of the power of your fancy new machine.
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@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Whatever, CPU is there to be used.
All the talk lately about electron/web apps using cpu/ram really doesn't matter to me for this reason. Yes the blinking cursor uses 10% of cpu and that's funny but it's not a huge deal.
What DOES bother me is the fact that Slack and facebook messenger hitch up, lag, and freeze when I'm typing. Pidgin did this shit better and it's like a decade old or something! I'm okay with losing gifs in exchange for a responsive messaging app.
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@bb36e said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
facebook messenger
You mean the UWP app? Now that's the shit. As far as I can tell it's a React web app running inside a Safari webview running on top of an emulated iOS environment (Osmeta).
Or did they build the very same UI in both React and native iOS?
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@marczellm oh no, I mean the one on messenger.com but what you just described sounds like it belongs on the front page
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@bb36e said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
freeze when I'm typing.
Well, every letter has to travel around the world (multiple times) so they can auto-suggest those corrections. Synchronously, of course. Autocorrect must correct!!!
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@powerlord said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Normally, I'd let this pass, except that those parts don't look like a browser. I mean, really, how much like a web browser does the STORE page of the Steam client look?
Have you ever navigated to the Steam Store in Chrome? It's http://store.steampowered.com/ if you haven't. (Yes, HTTP not HTTPS).
I've never done anything in Chrome, thanks. And I know it does HTTP. The store page in the client does HTTP (the alarms I get are HTTP alarms, and I don't have the HTTPS MITM decrypter on my UTM active), and I don't see why they would do anything different in an actual browser.
The store page in the client is rendered via Chromium Embedded Framework.
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@bb36e said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
What DOES bother me is the fact that Slack and facebook messenger hitch up, lag, and freeze when I'm typing. Pidgin did this shit better and it's like a decade old or something! I'm okay with losing gifs in exchange for a responsive messaging app.
I am using Slack occasionally, and no repro so far.
My main electron app for now is VSCode and it's great.
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This post is deleted!
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We heard you like developer tools, so we put developer tools in your developer tools so you can develop while you develop.
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Here are some more Windows Store apps that are full HTML+JS. By the way, as much as I have problems with the "web for everything" approach, I think Microsoft has done a great job in treating HTML+JS apps as first-class citizens on Windows 8 and 10.
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@marczellm The really fun part is that you can put a WebView in UWP apps which (after proper whitelisting of the URI) can allow the JS apps on the remote server to access native hardware capabilities. Which means that if you can make it so that accessing your website through your browser will yield the "normal" website while accessing the same website through this UWP app can enhance the website with additional capabilities.
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@rhywden You can also do that on Android.
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@rhywden Yep, the aforementioned SoundCloud app which really just shows a website integrates with the media keys on my keyboard when ran as an app.
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Yahoo Mail used to have a Windows "app" that was just a thin wrapper for their website (but with notifications and a "live tile").
Then suddenly they discontinued it... even though it takes zero effort to maintain?
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@anonymous234 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Yahoo Mail used to have a Windows "app" that was just a thin wrapper for their website (but with notifications and a "live tile").
Then suddenly they discontinued it... even though it takes zero effort to maintain?
Probably discovered some incompatibility with Edge and didn't want to fix it.
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@anonymous234 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Yahoo Mail used to have a Windows "app" that was just a thin wrapper for their website (but with notifications and a "live tile").
Yeah the same thing as Amazon
Well Amazon is funnier because an email client is something like a "web app" so it's not completely insane to present it as an app but the Amazon website has nothing app-like.
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Oh, and how could I forget both mobile apps for
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Also the built in Food&Drink, Travel, Health etc. apps in Windows are HTML+JS
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@marczellm said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
I think Microsoft has done a great job in treating HTML+JS apps as first-class citizens on Windows 8 and 10.
...you say that like it's a good thing.
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Has the Azure Storage Explorer been mentioned yet? Yet another piece of crap Electron app, which tries to look like a native app but fails miserably if you give it a closer look.
My Electron pet peeve of the week: menu bars. AzSE has one with the classic File, Edit, Help menu's. My gripes with them:
- When opening a menu, the menu title looks a bit off because it doesn't adhere to the platform standard colour for an opened menu.
- If you use an accelerator key (such as Alt-E for the Edit menu) while your mouse is positioned over a different menu (such as File), the chosen menu opens but the app immediately switches to the other menu.
- Arrow key navigation to go to a sibling menu doesn't work.
Also, I am pretty sure that the menu's won't adhere to Windows' awkwardly hidden context menu position setting.
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@masonwheeler They don't seem that bad on that platform for the most part.
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@alexmedia said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Azure Storage Explorer
You mean this?
This is worse than the others IMO because the others don't mimic a native look so closely.
We've already bashed menu bars, see https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1172070
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@marczellm said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@alexmedia said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Azure Storage Explorer
You mean this?
This is worse than the others IMO because the others don't mimic a native look so closely.
Agreed, AzSE looks horribly out of place on Windows. The treeview on the left doesn't look even remotely native to the one seen in Windows, nor do any of the other controls on that screen. It is as if Microsoft don't even pay attention to their HIG anymore.
We've already bashed menu bars, see https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1172070
Ah, thanks - I forgot and didn't bother scrolling to the beginning of this thread. :D
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@alexmedia said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
It is as if Microsoft don't even pay attention to their HIG anymore.
They haven't for years
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@raceprouk said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@alexmedia said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
It is as if Microsoft don't even pay attention to their HIG anymore.
They haven't for years
Case in point: Ribbon.
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The new tab page in Edge:
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@anonymous234 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
Then suddenly they discontinued it... even though it takes zero effort to maintain?
Everyone probably jumped ship. I certainly wouldn't take a job there...
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@alexmedia said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
The treeview on the left doesn't look even remotely native to the one seen in Windows, nor do any of the other controls on that screen.
It has a very GTK whiff to it.
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@marczellm said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
The new tab page in Edge:
GG... someone?
Are all those images being hosted on Ad servers?
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@cartman82 said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
As for security, sounds like more bullshit theater. Until there are widespread instances of people's computers being hacked by script kiddies, without phishing and other personalized tricks, I am fine with it.
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@laoc said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
is over!
https://blog.checkpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Figure-20.png
Neat trick!
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@laoc said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
As for security, sounds like more bullshit theater. Until there are widespread instances of people's computers being hacked by script kiddies, without phishing and other personalized tricks, I am fine with it.
Rejoice, the wait is over!
Very interesting article. Compare the ease of cracking open a browser-based environment (XSS galore) with the hellish effort it takes to do anything with memory corruption in VLC.
Definitely need to watch out when downloading anything with a browser wrapper app.
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@raceprouk said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
@alexmedia said in Big list of webapps masquerading as native:
It is as if Microsoft don't even pay attention to their HIG anymore.
They haven't for years
Decades. (OK, only two or three decades, but ...) The rot set in around the time when Excel 1.0 came out, and did CopyCutPaste in its own special way. (I think Excel 2016 finally allows you to turn off Excel-style copy/paste in favour of working like every other application on the planet works. Well, any other application that doesn't rely on the X selection. Gods I hate the X selection. Useful, but I hate it anyway.)
Sorry. Rant over.
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@steve_the_cynic Yes! CtrlIns, ShiftIns, and ShiftDel the way
GodIBM intended! None of this "eks see vee" crud!
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They're officially okay with you messing with their Angular views, but they do overwrite them each and every update.
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@twelvebaud And it still works better than Steam :D
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