Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths
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@levicki The FAT shortened paths always had digits after the ~. But I'm pretty sure on NTFS I've seen shortened paths with letters after the ~ as well.
However, a path in the registry is problematic if ANY component of the path is a shortened name, which probably simplifies things. The only additional bit you'd really have to check is if the value is intended to be a path name in the first place, and whether it's on the filesystem you're wanting to convert.C:\Program Files\Our Fabulous Company Name\Our Fantastic Product\INTER~2F\
is a potentially problematic path, because its final component looks like a shortened name, even though other components of the path are long and contain spaces, removing that shortened name from the filesystem would break things.
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@levicki said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I am not saying it couldn't be done with regex but it would be a mess
That goes for anything that could be done with regex
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On FAT, short file names were stored as regular 8.3 directory entries, and long file names were stored immediately afterward as "volume label | directory" directory entries, 11 characters at a time. While the convention was to replace the last few characters with
~1
(modulo anti-collision), any long file name could have any short file name and vice versa.On NTFS, for MacOS and Single Unix Specification support, long file names were built in from the beginning. When a file is named, which namespace (POSIX, DOS, or Windows LFN) the name is compatible with is stored; if a name happened to fit in 8.3, it got one name, but if it didn't, it got two. Hard links are possible and just add additional names to the file entry.
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@TwelveBaud So if I understand you, the short names are hardlinks to the files with some flag for filtering? And then operations that need to know whether both exist would have to do a second pass over the list…
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Hm, that could explain the second graph above; if every time it found a short name it had to check to see if a long name for the same file also existed and skip it if so ... there would have to be more than that to avoid skipping user-made hardlinks.
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@Watson It does not just skip it, it has to combine them. The WIN32_FIND_DATA has separate fields for name and alternate (=short) name.
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Aaaand its Tizen!
As a part of cleanup our lead renamed the project from "Bulbulator" to "Initech Bulbulator", while at the same time we got a new TV for testing. For some reason I couldn't install the app on the new TV. After three hours lost googling on some obscure forums full of broken english we renamed the .wgt file to something without whitespace, and it worked. What's more weird is that it still works on a mac, but not on Linux (we didn't check Windows, because AFAIK we couldn't find the required Java 8 on this platform)
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@sebastian-galczynski said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
we couldn't find the required Java 8 on this platform
Java 8 is beyond end-of-life. You're supposed to use Java 11 and you're supposed to bundle it with your app yourself. Sorry about that.
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@TwelveBaud said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@sebastian-galczynski said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
we couldn't find the required Java 8 on this platform
You cannot find Java 8 for Windows? WTF??
Java 8 is beyond end-of-life. You're supposed to use Java 11 and you're supposed to bundle it with your app yourself. Sorry about that.
Getting old java8 application running on java11 might be quite a big task to do. This WTF is definitely on Oracle's side.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
This WTF is definitely on Oracle's side.
While this is undoubtedly and always true, this product is Tizen. There's plenty of for everybody; there's a veritable ocean of .
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@TwelveBaud said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Java 8 is beyond end-of-life.
No it's not.
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@TwelveBaud said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Java 8 is beyond end-of-life.
Now tell that to Samsung. Good thing is this year they started to bundle the whole JDK with their IDE.
And yep, the version is still 8.242.08.1. Probably because the IDE is based on Eclipse 4.7.
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@TwelveBaud said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Java 8 is beyond end-of-life.
It just arrived in Android Studio 4.0.
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@sebastian-galczynski said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Tizen
That thing needs to be nuked from the orbit with extreme prejudice. It's a total clusterfuck.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Getting old java8 application running on java11 might be quite a big task to do. This WTF is definitely on Oracle's side.
Well, the library modularization was apparently a highly requested feature, because the standard bundle is waaaay tooooo biiigggg for some use-cases, e.g. when each application runs in a container bundling all of the runtime and system libraries with it. Unfortunately yes, it does break old applications. And even more so their builds.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Unfortunately yes, it does break old applications. And even more so their builds.
The problem there is that it made some subtle changes to the classloading system. Every time someone touches that, it triggers problems because of how critically sensitive it is. (It's about equivalent to hacking in the dynamic linker in C and C++, and that's where stuff gets crazy.)
I've not converted our code, as it is explicitly written for the java8 language profile. Nothing in 11 has been compelling enough for me to shift yet (
var
would be a nice-to-have at best, and other things either transparent, meh, or the goddamn module system), at least given what our current applications are doing. But I have switched entirely to openjdk for testing purposes (I'm definitely a member of the IHOC) and I do run CI with both 8 and 11.
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@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
IHOC
Interfaith Homeless Outreach Council?
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@marczellm said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
IHOC
Interfaith Homeless Outreach Council?
International House of Chocolate?
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@marczellm said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
IHOC
Interfaith Homeless Outreach Council?
International House of Chocolate?
https://what.thedailywtf.com/category/11/the-i-hate-oracle-club
EDIT: What, that doesn't onebox?
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@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
It's about equivalent to hacking in the dynamic linker in C and C++, and that's where stuff gets crazy.
I actually understand dynamic linkers much better than the Java classloader system. There are symbols in the binary, a few environment variables and, on Windows, registry keys that affect what gets loaded when. All of that is easy to Google and inspect.
But Java, with its potentially unlimited number of classloaders, which are frequently considerably messed with programmatically, which somehow have "security" features shoehorned into them and now have another system built on top of them since Java 11? They might as well be black magic.
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@dfdub said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I actually understand dynamic linkers much better than the Java classloader system.
You're obviously not writing your own dynamic linkers then! Once you plug your own system in there so that you're able to do something exotic (like pulling shared libraries straight out of a ZIP file without needing to patch them through temporary files on disk as an intermediary) then you're into areas of similar complexity. Almost the whole of the complexity of the classloader system comes from how you can vary the symbol exposure, and if you know what you're doing, you can do equivalent epic things in C.
And other sorts of load-time/runtime code patching too, but they're less interesting and less crazy.
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@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You're obviously not writing your own dynamic linkers then!
Well, I'm also not going to write my own class loading system for the JVM - the existing one is crazy enough, thankyouverymuch.
And other sorts of load-time/runtime code patching too, but they're less interesting and less crazy.
Yeah, LD_PRELOAD looks like magic the first time you use it, but it's actually not that interesting.
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@marczellm said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
IHOC
Interfaith Homeless Outreach Council?
This made me think of the possibly apocryphal congratulatory letter to the team at BBN from the contemporary president, concerning their work with the IMPs of the early ARPANet.
Sadly, the said president and/or his staff had mis-heard the word "Interface", and congratulated the team for their ecumenical outreach, and the contribution made by their Interfaith Message Processor.
Or so the story goes.
EDIT: Apparently it was not a president, but a senator. Whatever.
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Was it a protocol-agnostic message processor?
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@Zerosquare said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Was it a protocol-agnostic message processor?
It uses AI to parse randomly-formatted messages?
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@PleegWat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Zerosquare said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Was it a protocol-agnostic message processor?
It uses AI to parse randomly-formatted messages?
Well, given that it was an Interfaith doobrie, probably it blesses the good ones.
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Here’s a good one you get when trying to install Adobe software on an APFS volume:
I’m guessing this has to do with current versions of macOS splitting up the internal drive into two partitions, one of which is case-sensitive while the other isn’t (unless you specifically make it that, of course, which I haven’t).
Because not being able to install this software is a problem for me, I did some googling to find out how to solve this. The only recommended solution by Adobe is to:—
Install the product onto an HFS+ or HFSJ non-case-sensitive drive.
Un … no? That would mean re-installing my computer again after I just got it as I want it again following a hard drive failure. Oh yeah, and “just install it on an external disk with a different file system” doesn't help, because Adobe doesn’t give you a choice where the app goes — when you start the installer, the message above is the only thing you get to see, and after clicking OK, it exits.
Only solution I can think of right now, though, is to run it in a VM with an HFS+-formatted disk image.
My opinion of Adobe’s products has been “not good” for quite some years, but this makes it sink even further.
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@Gurth said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Oh yeah, and “just install it on an external disk with a different file system” doesn't help, because Adobe doesn’t give you a choice where the app goes — when you start the installer, the message above is the only thing you get to see, and after clicking OK, it exits.
I'd guess that it's because of this (from the Adobe KB page you linked):
This limitation applies to both the startup drive as well as the drive onto which the software is installed.
No reason to let you pick an install location if it always needs to put files on your incompatible startup drive. Apparently there's also no reason to tell you this.
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@Gurth said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Oh yeah, and “just install it on an external disk with a different file system” doesn't help, because Adobe doesn’t give you a choice where the app goes — when you start the installer, the message above is the only thing you get to see, and after clicking OK, it exits.
So the "please choose a different volume" is just there to mock you? Yeah, sounds like Adobe.
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@Parody said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
No reason to let you pick an install location if it always needs to put files on your incompatible startup drive. Apparently there's also no reason to tell you this.
Would there be a good reason for having to put files on the incompatible drive? None that I can think of. Every well-behaved Mac app keeps all its stuff within its application package and is therefore relocatable to anywhere you like, but Adobe — of course — follows its own rules and ignores platform conventions.
here is assuming everyone would want to install their software in the place you feel it should go.
It gets more interesting. My old hard drive hasn't failed completely (yet), so I decided to copy the old installs off it onto my new APFS-formatted drive.
- InDesign crashes before even showing a menu bar or window, followed by the standard macOS screen that says the app crashed, would I like to send details of this to Apple?
- Illustrator takes a long time to start, and when it does, it gives a blank welcome screen. I can open existing documents and work on them, but I can't make new ones, because the menu option and keystroke for that just don't do anything.
- Photoshop appears to work fine.
I then tried copying the files to an external drive that's HFS+-formatted, and though I only tried Illustrator, it behaves exactly the same. I'm guessing from this that its problem is not so much having been copied to an APFS volume, but that it's missing files from outside its installation folder. But which ones?
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@Gurth said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Parody said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
No reason to let you pick an install location if it always needs to put files on your incompatible startup drive. Apparently there's also no reason to tell you this.
Would there be a good reason for having to put files on the incompatible drive? None that I can think of. Every well-behaved Mac app keeps all its stuff within its application package and is therefore relocatable to anywhere you like, but Adobe — of course — follows its own rules and ignores platform conventions.
is that Adobe is actually the very reason why a case-insensitive FS is actually a thing on a Unix system (OS X) and why it's the default one. At least, that is what the rumor says (ie that that Adobe successfully blackmailed Apple because it was easier than fixing their crap).
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@Gurth said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
because Adobe doesn’t give you a choice where the app goes — when you start the installer,
Wait, isn't installation on Apple just dragging a folder (with a custom icon) into the Apps folder? WTF happened here?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Gurth said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
because Adobe doesn’t give you a choice where the app goes — when you start the installer,
Wait, isn't installation on Apple just dragging a folder (with a custom icon) into the Apps folder? WTF happened here?
That seems obviouis. Adobe happened.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Gurth said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
because Adobe doesn’t give you a choice where the app goes — when you start the installer,
Wait, isn't installation on Apple just dragging a folder (with a custom icon) into the Apps folder? WTF happened here?
Some applications do need custom installers, because they add themselves as part of the OS (ie add kernel module). For example VM providers (VirtualBox, Parallels) need drivers for virtual network and USB.
Now I am not sure if Adobe applications come with their own kernel module if the installers are just product of "we've always had installers!" mindset, but I am sure that it's in either case.
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I'm not sure why Illustrator/PS/etc. need a kernel driver. But besides that, the question remains what the fucking hell they messed up so their software doesn't work on a case sensitive file system.
Do they load some resources/plugins by name, then didn't manage to get the casing consistent across different places they load them? How was adding this ridiculous error message simpler than lower-casing every single file name / file name reference?
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
is that Adobe is actually the very reason why a case-insensitive FS is actually a thing on a Unix system (OS X) and why it's the default one. At least, that is what the rumor says (ie that that Adobe successfully blackmailed Apple because it was easier than fixing their crap).
I'm not sure that would be a true rumour. HFS was already case-insensitive when introduced in 1985, while Illustrator, Adobe's first consumer-oriented program, only came along two years later.
@Tsaukpaetra said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Wait, isn't installation on Apple just dragging a folder (with a custom icon) into the Apps folder? WTF happened here?
For most software, yes. Some come with installers, usually because they need (or want) some things installed elsewhere than in the application package. Not just for things like kernel modules, but also for reasons like wanting to install something in a standard Unix directory.
Even then, though, you usually get one of a small number of installers, mostly the one provided by Apple, but Adobe of course rolls its own. With predictable results.
@topspin said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
How was adding this ridiculous error message simpler than lower-casing every single file name / file name reference?
Not to mention: installers for older versions did give you the option of installing it elsewhere than in
/Applications
. So somebody felt it would be a good idea to spend effort removing the ability to do that from the installer.Even if Adobe would really, really like you to install their crapware in their blessed location, they could at least write the installer in such a way that if it can't, it asks where you would like it installed instead. But no, that would have made a bit of sense.
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Status: does it count if the software can not handle spaces in the input box?
I just fuckers around with my alarm clock because I accidentally entered a space into the response field (it has "obstacles" where, for example in this case you're intended to type the answer to a three-term math problem).
Totally broke everything, I couldn't enter any numbers, backspace did apparently erase the field but as soon as I tried putting in a number it was instead filled with spaces....
I'm not sure whether to blame my keyboard or the App but this is a horrible experience when you're trying to shut up an App that's blaring sound in an attempt to wake you up...
Oh, I'm using AlarmDroid.
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@Tsaukpaetra Good morning! Reinfrescante, no? That's a feature.
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@Gurth Did the installer promptly delete itself afterwards?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
(it has "obstacles" where, for example in this case you're intended to type the answer to a three-term math problem)
In what universe does this belong in an alarm clock application?
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It's for those people who would otherwise turn off the alarm without waking up.
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@Zerosquare Just put the alarm so far that you can't turn it off without actually getting out of bed.
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@Bulb This is what I do on those (fairly few) times that I really have to get up to an alarm.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Zerosquare Just put the alarm so far that you can't turn it off without actually getting out of bed.
Ask me how well that worked for me. Go on.
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@Tsaukpaetra right through the wall you say. Oh my.
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@Zerosquare Seems to me that those people would activate enough neurons to answer the question then go back to sleep.
(Er, no, that totally isn't the voice of experience talking, and if you believe that, I'm sure I can sell you this nice bridge and that tranche of eminently developable land in central Florida.)
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Zerosquare Seems to me that those people would activate enough neurons to answer the question then go back to sleep.
(Er, no, that totally isn't the voice of experience talking, and if you believe that, I'm sure I can sell you this nice bridge and that tranche of eminently developable land in central Florida.)
Today's task was "Select what day yesterday was."
At least, that's what DreamCatcher was able to determine from residual cache shadow dumping post wake-up.
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Did I mention Star Trek Fleet Command?
Apparently the name gets completely blank-ified if it has these alien characters.
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In this week's episode, the Enterprise encounters an alien life form known as the @Tsaukpaetra, seemingly friendly. Meanwhile in Engineering, the crew is trying to find the cause of sudden and inexplicable computer malfunctions...
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@Zerosquare said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
In this week's episode, the Enterprise encounters an alien life form known as the @Tsaukpaetra, seemingly friendly. Meanwhile in Engineering, the crew is trying to find the cause of
sudden and inexplicable computer malfunctionswhy somebody suddenly likes everything they say...