I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android
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@kt_ At least they don't officially do it that way, though whether it actually happens is another story entirely.
As for my situation, I called it ahead of time. Doing it as a webview was the least effort intensive method when you have a website that is 'responsive' and you just reuse that. I predicted it would bite us in the ass before we even started building in this method.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@Arantor said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@Atazhaia I'm not aware of any case where apple would block an app because it didn't conform to some guidelines. I could be wrong here, though. It is true, however, that the average iOS app has much better design than the average Android app.
I know of an example. My company's app requires a rebuild because a web view plus notifications is not native enough and Apple has refused it, even after our CEO got a call out of their approval team to try to negotiate.
I thought this was because they want apps to be more than just a Web view, not because they were ugly.
Yesterday I was ordering a pizza an noticed their website had a icon to install their app. I installed because maybe the interface was better.
It was such a lazy webview that it still show the ad to install their app from it, ridiculous.
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@Arantor said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Doing it as a webview was the least effort intensive method when you have a website that is 'responsive' and you just reuse that.
That's what we're planning to do, and in fact, have already done so for Google Play, Fire OS, and Windows Store. On all three of those, the approvals process looked to be entirely automatic, and the only issue we had was, IIRC, the need to specify a theme setting on the Windows 8.1 version of the app.
Looks like we might have more of an issue with iOS though.
@wharrgarbl said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
It was such a lazy webview that it still show the ad to install their app from it, ridiculous.
I can guarantee with our app, that won't happen
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@RaceProUK also, don't make me login in an app, I expect apps to use my Google account
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@wharrgarbl said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
don't make me login in an app, I expect apps to use my Google account
Are you talking about at all or just in common use? It matters because there's at least one point where you need to say whether the app is to be allowed to see your Google account; it really shouldn't be entirely automatic (as that would be too easy to abuse).
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@asdf said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
I always used Signal as my default SMS/MMS app. It's just more convenient to have all messages in the same app, no matter whether they were encrypted and sent over the internet or not.
Same. It's unfortunate that that's not possible in iPhone (bringing it back around). Can't change the default SMS/MMS app, so now you have two. And the associated security risk. iPhone users can't make informed decisions. :)
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@dkf said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Are you talking about at all or just in common use? It matters because there's at least one point where you need to say whether the app is to be allowed to see your Google account; it really shouldn't be entirely automatic (as that would be too easy to abuse).
Sometimes there is a popup asking if you give stuff permission to see your account. But I don't have to fill in my email or create yet another password (that just happens to be the same hunter2 I use for unimportant stuff)
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@coldandtired said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
As someone whose contract is almost up and faced with no Windows phones to choose, I feel your pain, except I'm falling from a higher height
Yup. You think that's bad, I tried an iPhone, discarded that for Android, discarded that for a Windows Phone which I loved. And now I have to go backwards because Microsoft has no fucking clue what they're doing in the phone business.
So now the choice is shoddy Android crap, or put iTunes on my PC. Shit vs. also-shit.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
I'm starting to believe Google just fired all of their designers and let engineers or teenagers design their mobile products.
Considering that's how they've always done their web-based products, I'm not sure why you'd be surprised.
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
I'm starting to believe Google just fired all of their designers and let engineers or teenagers design their mobile products.
Considering that's how they've always done their web-based products, I'm not sure why you'd be surprised.
I wasn't surprised, really. Just, I stopped using Google's office suite (and so Google's products, apart from Gmail) as soon as Microsoft's online apps became a thing and having to go back and see this shit again really angered me. It's so bad it's ridiculous!
It's level of bad!
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
If Windows Phone is as good as Microsoft's mobile software, I understand why people around here are so devastated it got abandoned.
Everybody who makes phone decisions based on sales figures or watching late-night TV comedians laughs at Windows Phone. Everybody who's actually tried one for a couple days comes away loving it. Everybody who's owned one can't imagine going back to Android or iOS afterward.
Note that Windows Phone was designed by the same team that designed Zune, another extremely great device that people laughed out of business. If they'd only tried one, they'd have loved it.
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@Gąska said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
My Windows phone crashed about every 8 hours. And by crashed, I mean rebooted in the least convenient moment (usually when someone called me and I clicked "answer", or during GPS-guided highway trip). It got better after Black update, but IE was still losing tabs, and "back" button took me back 3-4 pages at once. And whenever I read CNN or other mainstream news site, it closed after 30 seconds.
I realize it might have been because Lumia 620 had shitty specs, but even the most shitty Android phones aren't that shitty.I think it's more likely it was physically defective. Didn't you get a warranty replacement?
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
I thought this was because they want apps to be more than just a Web view, not because they were ugly.
This is on the phone that, when originally released, wasn't even going to have apps because web views are just fine guys all you need guys Apple isn't blatantly lying to you right now!
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Just, I stopped using Google's office suite (and so Google's products, apart from Gmail) as soon as Microsoft's online apps became a thing and having to go back and see this shit again really angered me. It's so bad it's ridiculous!
You're lucky you don't have to use anything they have a monopoly in, like web video. The YouTube administrative interface is like a miracle of shitty design. Bonus points for Google disabling Flash entirely in their browser, but not making an alternative to the Flash-based video editor built into YouTube-- which means to use it, you need to switch to IE or Edge. Seriously. Google has a feature you can only use with a competitor's browser.
And Google Hangouts (on PC, or I guess on "Chrome add-in that pretends to kind of be a native app kind of") is the worst IM client I've ever used in my life, and yes that includes 1998-esque ICQ.
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Everybody who makes phone decisions based on sales figures or watching late-night TV comedians laughs at Windows Phone. Everybody who's actually tried one for a couple days comes away loving it. Everybody who's owned one can't imagine going back to Android or iOS afterward.
It's major problem is that it is #3 (by quite a long stretch) in terms of market share in a market that only really supports two ecosystems. Which is totally not a technical problem, not in the slightest.
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
I thought this was because they want apps to be more than just a Web view, not because they were ugly.
This is on the phone that, when originally released, wasn't even going to have apps because web views are just fine guys all you need guys Apple isn't blatantly lying to you right now!
Apple likes to shake things up when they find other directions to be better. This isn't the first time, it won't be the last. Remember that it's been ten years!
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
You're lucky you don't have to use anything they have a monopoly in, like web video.
Not a real monopoly, it's not even the most popular, that would be pornhub.
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@wharrgarbl said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
You're lucky you don't have to use anything they have a monopoly in, like web video.
Not a real monopoly, it's not even the most popular, that would be pornhub.
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@RaceProUK don't bring facts upon my trolling
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Real alternatives would be vimeo, metacafe, dailymotion and blip
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@wharrgarbl said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
dailymotion
Is utter shit
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
If they'd only tried one, they'd have loved it.
I has a Zune; as I recall, it was my replacement when my Zen finally bit the dust (only just noticed the similarity between those two product names). I seem to remember it being an outstanding media player; not really a step up or down from the Zen, but a step across, I suppose.
I wonder what happened to my Zune. I never got another player to replace it. I suppose once capacities got large enough, I switched to phone just like everyone else did so I wouldn't have to carry two devices.
I think that's what ended up tanking much of that business (who buys an iPod anymore vs. an iPhone)? In that vein, I suppose you could say Windows Phone killed the Zune. That's just how the market goes.
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@heterodox said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
I suppose you could say Windows Phone killed the Zune
The Zune died long before Windows Phone was a thing
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@RaceProUK said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
The Zune died long before Windows Phone was a thing
Windows Mobile, then, which I certainly had around the same timeframe. But I understand I may be stretching the analogy a little too far in appreciation of the irony.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Apple likes to shake things up when they find other directions to be better.
No they were just fucking lying about going with website-only apps to throw off competitors. They're fucking liars.
You're naive as hell if you don't believe they already had the whole AppStore stuff 95% built at the time they were announcing that "web apps are good enough for everybody!" Apple is liars.
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@dkf said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
It's major problem is that it is #3 (by quite a long stretch) in terms of market share in a market that only really supports two ecosystems. Which is totally not a technical problem, not in the slightest.
Somehow the Xbox has done ok despite being launched into the same situation.
Microsoft's capable of it, if they bother trying. With Windows Phone, they're not even bothering to try making it a long-term business.
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@blakeyrat They should stop trying to use the desktop as leverage and make good windows phone exclusive stuff, like they do on the videogames.
Both iphone and android lack decent games, despite they having the hardware for that.
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@Gąska said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
My Windows phone crashed about every 8 hours. And by crashed, I mean rebooted in the least convenient moment (usually when someone called me and I clicked "answer", or during GPS-guided highway trip). It got better after Black update, but IE was still losing tabs, and "back" button took me back 3-4 pages at once. And whenever I read CNN or other mainstream news site, it closed after 30 seconds.
I realize it might have been because Lumia 620 had shitty specs, but even the most shitty Android phones aren't that shitty.I think it's more likely it was physically defective. Didn't you get a warranty replacement?
As you know too well, being pissed at random shit is way more fun than actually getting something done.
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@asdf said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@Tsaukpaetra
Which Android version do you use? I can't even choose Hangouts as the default app for SMS/MMS on my phone from the settings menu…Android 6. It's apparently getting long in the tooth.
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@Tsaukpaetra (and @asdf) It's likely because of Google Voice; Hangouts still does SMS for Google Voice and Project Fi. Otherwise you have to use something else; on my Android 6 phone, my options are Android Messages or Facebook Messenger.
That reminds me: I should drag Facebook Messenger to the trash again. ::does so::
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@asdf said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@LaoC Motorola is getting better as well. My Z Play has received more or less one update per month since I bought it. I'm currently on the March 1st security patch level, so they're far from perfect (security updates are delayed by 1-2 months), but it's something. Definitely better than some other manufacturers.
Good to hear. I much prefer their almost-stock style of Android over Samsung's, although that will probably become irrelevant now that LineageOS is available for the S7.
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
If they'd only tried one, they'd have loved it.
That's what i tell women about me.
Didn't work either.
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@blakeyrat said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Microsoft's capable of it, if they bother trying. With Windows Phone, they're not even bothering to try making it a long-term business.
Yeah, I really don't understand it. Why go to all the trouble and expense of designing and manufacturing something and then after you release it you just act like you couldn't care less. Microsoft?
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@El_Heffe said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Microsoft?
People have been asking that since 1975, and no-one's come up with an answer yet
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@El_Heffe Why spend so much money buying Nokia only to utterly let their product lapse for two solid years?
I really don't get it either.
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@blakeyrat Slash is still shipped with Chrome, it's just set to "Ask" before using it.
The problem is that their Ask dialog doesn't always work, meaning you have to unintuitively click the i in a circle icon in the URL bar and enable it from that menu.
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@powerlord I couldn't enable it for love nor money 3 weeks ago. I think it's off entirely.
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@El_Heffe They aren't making any real cash with it. Microsoft is becoming another IBM.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Notice those hideous bold icons.
Meh. Matter of taste.
Notice the awful address bar, hiding most of the address.
It's at least showing the entire path, not just the url. It doesn't make much difference on a portrait phone, but it would in landscape or on tablet. +1 Android.
Notice the home button! Who the fuck is still using home page in their browser?
Agreed. I'd rather have "reload" in that place.
Chrome for Android, opened tabs view...
Again, large and hideous icons, too wide borders, what the fuck? Compare with Safari.Whatever. Probably DPI difference.
Compare to stock iOS mail app:
+1 iOS
@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Gotta go, but I have more in Stock. The incredibly awkward way of taking screenshots, context menus that are ugly and that unfold below the finger that pressed it, so they're hovered by default. A fucking arrow which when you click it changes menu in an unexpected manner and you don't know why!
So mostly it's you prefer Apple design aesthetics to Android. Okay...
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Another thing I hate and it's quick to write-up has to do with the way the phone is designed. Like, to take a screenshot you're supposed to press volume down and power button. But they're so close together, you can't do it in an easy manner. You have to shift your fingers to a completely new position.
On my phone, you hold the power button and get a menu where you can restart, turn the phone off, take screenshot and take a screencast.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@Gąska i.dont understand what you're saying about "home" button. Is there a home button? (ETA you meant home button in Chrome. I don't think this was disabled by default, from what I can tell phone has been formatted before they gave it to me.)
As for safari's address bar, it tries and it does the eight thing: it shows the most important information and stops at that, knowing full well that showing more would look bad.
That's one of the indicators of good design decisions:.you.can see that a decision has been made.Until you use the same software on a landscape tablet. Then it looks ridiculous.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
It's funny how people keep downvoting my posts, yet no one has taken the time to defend these shitty design choices, which the most important that aren't about aesthetics are:
Too large fonts and icons, that steal real estate
DPI.
Gmail app not being able to default to showing unread email, you need to use search function to get there (and wait a moment or two while the app actually performs the search!)
Stolen real estate in the Gmail's drawer to show irrelevant stuffI don't use GMail, but it looks bad.
Inconsistent behaviour when clicking in the line of a completely devoid of meaning arrow icon
No idea.
Allowing apps to be preloaded without required authorizations
Oh come on, what the fuck ever. Just tap the fucking prompt and move on.
Apple people put WAAAY too much emphasis on the "unboxing" experience, then get fucked in the long run.
Allowing apps to be preloaded, when they duplicate the existing functionality, ie take space and annoy users
This is a second hand phone, so it could be they installed android defaults on top of vendor defaults. If not, then yes, it is annoying.
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@cartman82 said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Another thing I hate and it's quick to write-up has to do with the way the phone is designed. Like, to take a screenshot you're supposed to press volume down and power button. But they're so close together, you can't do it in an easy manner. You have to shift your fingers to a completely new position.
On my phone, you hold the power button and get a menu where you can restart, turn the phone off, take screenshot and take a screencast.
Huh, here it's there, too. Thanks.
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@cartman82 said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
It's funny how people keep downvoting my posts, yet no one has taken the time to defend these shitty design choices, which the most important that aren't about aesthetics are:
Too large fonts and icons, that steal real estate
DPI.
Gmail app not being able to default to showing unread email, you need to use search function to get there (and wait a moment or two while the app actually performs the search!)
Stolen real estate in the Gmail's drawer to show irrelevant stuffI don't use GMail, but it looks bad.
Inconsistent behaviour when clicking in the line of a completely devoid of meaning arrow icon
No idea.
Allowing apps to be preloaded without required authorizations
Oh come on, what the fuck ever. Just tap the fucking prompt and move on.
Apple people put WAAAY too much emphasis on the "unboxing" experience, then get fucked in the long run.
Allowing apps to be preloaded, when they duplicate the existing functionality, ie take space and annoy users
This is a second hand phone, so it could be they installed android defaults on top of vendor defaults. If not, then yes, it is annoying.
Well, it seems they did restore the phone to factory settings before giving it to me. Anyhow, that's what I'm going to do before giving it in. I won't leave my PII for them to sift through.
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@cartman82 as for what you called "unboxing experience", it's not really about that. It's about lack of attention to detail, lack of proper design. See, it's annoying that I can't just start using the phone that I have the authorize every app and I'm not sure what I really want to allow it to access, since I don't know what it really does -- I've just opened it for chrissake! And there are apps that will keep pestering you for it till the end of time, like the "Album", which I refused to provide access to location services and now I need to refuse it again l, every time I launch it.
So sure, it's annoying as he'll, but this also shows a further lapse of judgment on part of Google.
Android sucks in a great part, because the manufacturer can fill it with bloatware of every kind they want. And Google acts as if they can't do anything about this. On the other hand, they are able to force them not to pre-authorize their bloatware. So which is it? Why can they so the latter but can't enforce the former?
This shows a saddening lack of consideration for the end user. But hey, this doesn't matter, because Google hates end users, so why should they care? The person that invented this probably got a corporate award or something.
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Further evidence against Google.
I'm sitting on the shitter right now on the company's dime, so let me take a pic of myself and send it to all of my friends to see how badass I am.
So I pop open the official Android message app made by Google that people around here told me I should install if I want to criticise Google. Here's what I see when I try to take a photo:
Ok, so how do I change to the front camera to take a pic of my face? Well?
The answer is I don't. So fuck you, Google.
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@kt_ said in I've been wronged. A tale of being forced to use Android:
Ok, so how do I change to the front camera to take a pic of my face? Well?
Is there a front camera to switch to?
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@kt_ This thread is just making me sadder about all the stuff Microsoft got right that I now take for granted :(
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I have no idea what that Message app is doing. Hangouts and the SMS client I have on my phone both defer to the camera app to take the image, which has a button in the bottom-left:
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@Yamikuronue That keyboard looks a bit dirty.
Not that mine is any cleaner