Is ruby dying?
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@flabdablet said in Is ruby dying?:
@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
does that mean the future is NodeJS?
Nah.
COBOL.JS is the future.
Be very afraid.
The fuck? Of course you can use it in production. Put mission critical stuff on it. And, if you are foolish enough to do so, send the developer a tweet so that he can know that someone is sharing his fever dream he cooked up while on the tail end of a peyote trip.
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@cartman82 this is kind of my question; what's 'the next big thing' because NodeJS has been around long enough now for the shine to be fading. What is the language the next wave will favour?
I don't see anything yet that hits all the marks.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Is ruby dying?:
Node's not going to live forever either - it's more likely that 100 years from now someone will come up with something better, than that we'll still be using it as anything more than a curiosity. And we'll be pointing and laughing at the idea of building the programming esperanto on Javascript.
Probably not in the next 2 decades, at least.
The fate of ruby and .NET, on the other hand, IS certain (unless the new .NET core doesn't pull some miracle).
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@cartman82 what language would Zed Shaw recommend?
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@kt_ said in Is ruby dying?:
Not really. Cartman's brain's just fried completely from using those braindead technologies that make you use Sublime Text and say it's the best and most productive way you can write code (cause IDE's like, you know man, it makes you stupid and a bad coder.)
I use IDE-s and hate sublime for anything other than light scripts.
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@cartman82 what language would Zed Shaw recommend?
Archaeological dig of python 2, probably.
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@cartman82 so Python 2 is going to be the new hotness, cool.
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
Probably not in the next 2 decades, at least.
Why?
@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
The fate of ruby and .NET, on the other hand, IS certain
Why?
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
The fate of ruby and .NET, on the other hand, IS certain
.NET is THE most advanced cross-platform and language-agnostic virtual machine in existence, and it's open source. It's not going anywhere.
Node is... an interpreter for a language that just happened to get lucky? Okay I guess.
Hey, maybe we could run that javascript thing on .NET instead.
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@anonymous234 are there any dynamically typed languages on CLR in general? Or is it kind of not possible.
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
The fate of ruby and .NET, on the other hand, IS certain (unless the new .NET core doesn't pull some miracle).
What is that fate, why do they share it, and why is it certain?
And how would .Net core not pulling a miracle prevent it?
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@Arantor Supposedly yes
IronPython is pretty good from what I hear.
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@anonymous234 are there any dynamically typed languages on CLR in general? Or is it kind of not possible.
Python
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OK, TIL, this is interesting. But also I think Python has less broken type semantics than JS (or PHP for that matter) because while it's dynamically typed, my understanding is that it doesn't type juggle on the fly the way JS and PHP can do, which means it's fundamentally more suitable for something that is/can be compiled AOT.
I'm struggling to envisage JS following into that mold.
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@Dreikin said in Is ruby dying?:
@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@anonymous234 are there any dynamically typed languages on CLR in general? Or is it kind of not possible.
Python
Or even C#, if you opt to use the dynamic keyword. It's certainly possible (if not necessarily a good idea).
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@anonymous234 said in Is ruby dying?:
Hey, maybe we could run that javascript thing on .NET instead.
Why not? They did try Ruby and Python, after all. Neither are supported anymore though.
@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@anonymous234 are there any dynamically typed languages on CLR in general? Or is it kind of not possible.
See above. And others could be done, thanks to the DLR that sits on the CLR.
And I don't care that I was 'd.
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
The fate of ruby and .NET, on the other hand, IS certain (unless the new .NET core doesn't pull some miracle).
Have you heard of the "Dark Matter Developers", these aren't the people that post about their job on blogs, reddit, medium (on here) etc. I worked at shops that were VB6 / Classic ASP.
.NET is massive, new projects everyday is being built using .NET, there are probably trillions of lines of code that run on the CLR. ASP.NET WebForms which is a layer on top of .NET is supposed to be dead, I make a fair bit of cash adding new features in that environment. Same with WinForms dev, I recently applied for a job doing just that, for a new project (has to work on XP).
Also why do you keep on capitalising "IS" makes me think of these guys.
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@Arantor No, there were JS engines that ran on the CLR (back in the .NET 2.0 era).
https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/first-look-at-ironruby - This is going a while back.
Out of the Dynamic languages:
- http://ironpython.net/ - Almost DEAD.
- http://ironruby.net/ - DEAD
- JS engines are very dead - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1072727/are-there-any-net-clr-dlr-implementations-of-ecmascript
There is the DLR now that sits on the CLR:
Also going the other way, JVM on .NET
EDIT: BTW, I worked on a product that did use IronPython, it was fucking horrid to use. If you had to interface with it via C#, the code on the C# side ended up being horrific. This was the nasty <Tuple> Generic which ended up like this:
MyObject<Tuple<Tuple<Tuple<Tuple>>>>
Or you ended up piping text output into C# as JSON. It never worked as well as intended.
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@Polygeekery To be fair I think this was a legit project. I've seen plenty of places in Spain that used Cobol and then wanted ways of interfacing it with the web.
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@anonymous234 are there any dynamically typed languages on CLR in general? Or is it kind of not possible.
Phalanger can compile PHP into .NET assemblies.
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@DCoder this is a thing that should never be. Why taint .NET with that? But if it exists for PHP, one presumes it could exist for JavaScript.
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@Arantor Because it isn't .NET, they are running on the CLR.
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@lucas1 do I need to add a 'joke' emoji every time I make a joke so it's obvious that I'm making a joke knowing full well it's not technically accurate?
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@lucas1 do I need to add a 'joke' emoji every time I make a joke so it's obvious that I'm making a joke knowing full well it's not technically accurate?
We do have all those custom emoji for a reason, y'know. ;)
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@Arantor Considering some of the people on this forum, probably.
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@lucas1 funnily enough, I've made a number of similar jokes throughout the last couple of years here, and I don't recall anyone not getting that it was a joke.
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@Arantor I am not getting into one of these stupid arguments. Move on.
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@lucas1 No, you move on.
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@flabdablet No you!
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@lucas1 MUUUUUMMMMM
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@flabdablet Your mum is busy with the milk man at the moment.
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@lucas1 said in Is ruby dying?:
Also why do you keep on capitalising "IS" makes me think of these guys.
Is this the new Godwin?
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
Assuming something new that isn't internally fucktarded comes along.
90% of everything new in computing is fucktarded shit. (By basic application of Sturgeon's Law.) Most of the time, it's because only idiots who don't know their history would bother to try writing something entirely new, so they miss all sorts of fundamental problems in their implementation through sheer boneheaded ignorance. OTOH, people who know their shit rarely bother to try making new things; they know it's pointless stupidity and can't be bothered to try.
There's the occasional good thing turn up. It's rare though. LLVM is an example of such. Node… well, it's nothing like as interesting as Go; Go is actually doing something about the swamp that is parallel programming.
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Only if it is used in an argument.
Joking aside just every-time I see IS I read Islamic State. Probably because over there years I have become somewhat interested with Islamic Extremists after having to spend some time at Uni with people that wasn't far off being ISIS recruits.
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@lucas1 said in Is ruby dying?:
Probably because over there years I have become somewhat interested with Islamic Extremists
: Hello, Home Office? Hi, I have some information on a potential threat…
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@Arantor said in Is ruby dying?:
@anonymous234 are there any dynamically typed languages on CLR in general? Or is it kind of not possible.
There's ExpandoObject and the whole dynamic type in C#. You can do dynamic language coding on CLR right now.
Also, there's always PHP.
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@Dreikin said in Is ruby dying?:
: Hello, Home Office? Hi, I have some information on a potential threat…
It amuses me (in a horrible way) that the main use of that hotline is apparently reporting people getting involved in extreme right wing politics, rather than idiots who want to associate with IS.
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@dkf Microsoft promotes the islamic state. The "IIS" The Israeli Islamic State.
Much with anything Microsoft it never really catches on and seems to have the worst of both worlds.
https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/thumb/f/f2/Trollface_More_HD.png/400px-Trollface_More_HD.png
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@Maciejasjmj said in Is ruby dying?:
Probably not in the next 2 decades, at least.
Why?
Too much resources invested into optimizing javascript. Big players behind web browsers will not want to rock the boat with a new language. Google came the closest to that with dart, but even they gave up. And with the browser increasingly becoming the only cross-platform development environment actively maintained across all devices, it will carry javascript along with it.
Also in its base form, javascript has that easy going noob-friendly nature that elevated PHP and python it their time as well. All new languages coming up are more niche and technical, I don't see any of them taking over the beginner friendly niche from js.
@Maciejasjmj said in Is ruby dying?:
The fate of ruby and .NET, on the other hand, IS certain
Why?
Microsoft has given up on the powerful Windows only family of .NET and bungled the transition to .NET core. C# is unappealing to new generations of programmers and startups. No one trust Microsoft. The next big fortune 100 company / unicorn startup will not have their software based on .NET, open source or not.
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
Why?
Microsoft has given up on the powerful Windows only family of .NET and bungled the transition to .NET core. C# is unappealing to new generations of programmers and startups. No one trust Microsoft. The next big fortune 100 company / unicorn startup will not have their software based on .NET, open source or not.
If you say so. The jobs market says different.
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@anonymous234 said in Is ruby dying?:
.NET is THE most advanced cross-platform and language-agnostic virtual machine in existence, and it's open source. It's not going anywhere.
You should see if those ruby guys can invite you on their podcast. You can spend 60 minutes patting each other on the back and reaffirming how you are not old and its the kids that are wrong, damnit.
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@cartman82 Look mate, I know everyone on Hacker news and Reddit hates Microsoft because they use Linux or some crap. But most people don't think like that, they think "how can I get a job after uni"?
If the market is .NET they will get a Junior .NET position.
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@Dreikin said in Is ruby dying?:
What is that fate
Cobol
why do they share it
Already wrote about MS.
Ruby is a one-trick pony. It is wholly wrapped around Rails, and Rails' server-side MVC paradigm is an outdated transitional fossil between static web pages and SPA-s.
Also, ruby is a proud dynamic language in the era where pendulum is swinging back towards static typing.
Also, it's slow as ass.
and why is it certain?
Well, nothing is certain, I guess. But trends seem to be going in that direction.
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
@Dreikin said in Is ruby dying?:
What is that fate
Cobol
why do they share it
Already wrote about MS.
Ruby is a one-trick pony. It is wholly wrapped around Rails, and Rails' server-side MVC paradigm is an outdated transitional fossil between static web pages and SPA-s.
Also, ruby is a proud dynamic language in the era where pendulum is swinging back towards static typing.
Also, it's slow as ass.
and why is it certain?
Well, nothing is certain, I guess. But trends seem to be going in that direction.
How is JavaScript statically typed?
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@lucas1 said in Is ruby dying?:
Have you heard of the "Dark Matter Developers", these aren't the people that post about their job on blogs, reddit, medium (on here) etc. I worked at shops that were VB6 / Classic ASP.
.NET is massive, new projects everyday is being built using .NET, there are probably trillions of lines of code that run on the CLR. ASP.NET WebForms which is a layer on top of .NET is supposed to be dead, I make a fair bit of cash adding new features in that environment. Same with WinForms dev, I recently applied for a job doing just that, for a new project (has to work on XP).That's a good point.
On the other hand, that's the long tail of the industry, not the spearhead. If you looked at "dark matter developers" 20 year ago, they'd be all doing cobol or some strange IBM thing.
Change will reach them too in the end.
Like conservatism, they can put break on things, but can't dictate the direction.
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@lucas1 said in Is ruby dying?:
@Arantor No, there were JS engines that ran on the CLR (back in the .NET 2.0 era).
- This is going a while back.
Out of the Dynamic languages: - Almost DEAD.
- DEAD
JS engines are very dead - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1072727/are-there-any-net-clr-dlr-implementations-of-ecmascriptIt's interesting you can list interesting projects from .NET's past, all dead and forgotten now, with nothing new on horizon, and still feel optimistic about the future of platform.
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@cartman82 It is irrelevant. .NET is a mature and stable platform that is known to work rather well.
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@cartman82 said in Is ruby dying?:
with nothing new on horizon
Apart from .NET Standard 2.0, which will see the .NET ecosystem spread across as many OSes and platforms as Microsoft can shove it onto, and will form the very foundation of the tech stack. Also, there's ASP.NET 5 and ASP.NET MVC 6 currentl in development, and of course there's the current Wndows 10 UWP standard, which MS are pushing.
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@RaceProUK Also it works on LibUV on *nix so it basically node without having to use JavaScript.
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@kt_ said in Is ruby dying?:
How is JavaScript statically typed?
JSHint, TypeScript (which swept away dynamically typed ruby-lookalike Coffescript, BTW), Flow.
I expect in a few years ES2019 or something will introduce some type hinting into the language as well.