Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck
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@asdf said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Maybe the package installed it in the wrong directory? Who knows, and at this point I honestly don't care anymore.
Swim up stream. Come to Debian. I ran in to some similar issues with 16.4, said to hell with it and made the jump to Debian for my dev VMs and other Linux boxes that have been rebuilt since then. With the exception of having to install sudo, it is like Ubuntu without all the cruft and broken shit.
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@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Weng said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
So you've been through... Six entirely different distributions since 2009?
Ubuntu: 2007-2010
Xubuntu: 2011-2012
Mandriva: 2012-2013
Linux Mint: 2013-2016
Manjaro: 2015-presentOr something like that. That's 5 I mentioned, although I tried some massive number of others (Puppy Linux, KNOPPIX, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Google Chrome OS, Zorin, Arch....) in there as well. But you have to realize that I was trying different distros for fun until 2013 when I went to college — Linux and Python were basically my life in high school — and it's not like people haven't had to go between XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 in that span either.
If you're used to RPM based package management, maybe you can also check CentOS out.
My friends using that have generally good comments on it, especially if you're using NVidia cards, they'll warn you ahead of possible problems.
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wat is linux is it a china unlicensed knockoff of windows?
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@Lorne-Kates said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
wat is linux is it a china unlicensed knockoff of windows?
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@Polygeekery said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
With the exception of having to install sudo, it is like Ubuntu without all the cruft and broken shit.
The main thing that raised my eyebrow after initially switching to Debian was just how much normal stuff seemed to be missing. It was a little disconcerting to try a traceroute and find that I had to install the package to make it work.
However, the combination of apt and the obsessively carefully curated Debian repositories makes installing what you need when you need it almost always completely painless. The Debian mindset is the complete opposite of Red Hat's everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach, and I've really come to appreciate it.
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@bb36e said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Lorne-Kates said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
wat is linux is it a china unlicensed knockoff of windows?
Now that's
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@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Now that's
Going by the star in the upper left-hand corner, I’d say
even. A Google image search for the pic turns up lots of Spanish-language hits with “Corea del Norte” in it, too.
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@anotherusername said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
I got a shiny-biscuit (CD? DVD? I don't remember) of Ubuntu
It was a CD.
we INSIST that you upgrade these packages, and if you don't have any way for us to do that, well that's your hard luck because no Ubuntu for you!"
Well, how do you think they fit the whole system on one CD?!?!
That's a fair question. It was a few years back ("few" == "about a dozen") when these things were smaller. Besides, it didn't want to install them from the network, but to check for and install updates. Or it was lying about what it wanted to do. I suppose that's possible. But that, too, makes it ARWTF.
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@Gurth said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Now that's
Going by the star in the upper left-hand corner, I’d say
even. A Google image search for the pic turns up lots of Spanish-language hits with “Corea del Norte” in it, too.
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@Adynathos said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
impossible to make NVIDIA Optimus work at all
I can make it work but it is still causing problems.
Does anyone know a laptop that has an Nvidia GPU but without the Optimus/Primus GPU switching system?
(That is: uses Nvidia GPU all the time. I would be grateful for a recommendation)I think those are going to be hard to find.
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@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Weng said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
So you've been through... Six entirely different distributions since 2009?
Ubuntu: 2007-2010
Xubuntu: 2011-2012
Mandriva: 2012-2013
Linux Mint: 2013-2016
Manjaro: 2015-presentOr something like that. That's 5 I mentioned, although I tried some massive number of others (Puppy Linux, KNOPPIX, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Google Chrome OS, Zorin, Arch....) in there as well. But you have to realize that I was trying different distros for fun until 2013 when I went to college — Linux and Python were basically my life in high school — and it's not like people haven't had to go between XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 in that span either.
If you're used to RPM based package management, maybe you can also check CentOS out.
My friends using that have generally good comments on it, especially if you're using NVidia cards, they'll warn you ahead of possible problems.
CentOSucks? No thanks. Been there, tried that, hated every minute of it's crappy years-behind-repos-and-otherwise-shoddy-everything-blargh-ew-gross-no-bye-k-thanks-have-the-fish-im-leaving
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I don't understand all that installation and re-installation pain. I mean, I used to do it all the time at work (Not My Job these days): set up a basic config in Puppet, an IP in BIND and dhcpd[0], fire up a CentOS installer script and wait for the box or VM to be ready.
But privately? I run a dedicated server at a hoster which I started with Debian 5. It has been reinstalled once in almost 10 years when I moved to a different hoster and decided I wanted a cleaner separation with VMs and get rid of the experimental shit that had been more a learning experience than anything. And then there's my Desktop. As the work laptop is more powerful than the aging desktop anyway I've been using a lot of Fedora now, which I don't particularly love but it hasn't given me major headaches. The Desktop has been Gentoo ever since I abandoned SuSE, the fat Ubuntu of the 90s, around 2001. This, also, has been reinstalled exactly once: when moving from 32-bit to 64-bit, which you can't do on the fly.
Sure, if you have all your config in Puppet or something, reinstalling is fine. But who does that for their workstation? I'd go mad if I had to apply all the tweaks all over again every couple of months or get used to the different and mostly ugly defaults the various distros use every time: No, no bootsplash, please. Customize inputrc. Set up user account for $PEOPLE. No gdm, dammit, I'll have lightdm. Uninstall all the Gnome shit while we are at it. Oh, I should have chosen the variant that starts with X to get Xfce? Why is that not simply a package install? Yes, bash-completion should be there by default. Root prompt is shit, edit bash profile. Etc.
Fuck all that. Teh Leenux be broken, teh Leenux get fix0rd.[0] Which should actually be managed by Puppet so as to make these steps redundant, and I'm sure they will RSN[tm]
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@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
CentOSucks? No thanks. Been there, tried that, hated every minute of it's crappy years-behind-repos-and-otherwise-shoddy-everything-blargh-ew-gross-no-bye-k-thanks-have-the-fish-im-leaving
I can appreciate it now that I've been working with it for a few years. If you need to make sure you can run your mission critical gazillion-line hyper-complex application as-is for the next decade, you need something ultra stable. Which necessarily means ultra outdated at some point, but sometimes that's preferable to finding you have to do major maintenance because the latest OS version comes with a newer version of $SOFTWARE that yours doesn't like. My workplace is a Java shop and it's amazing how these types are able to break compatibility in minor releases. Taking an application from Wildfly 8.1 to 8.2 is a major effort. 8 to 9 took long enough for 10 to be released meanwhile. Some shit still runs with Tomcat 6 on CentOS 4. So you want to do this on your schedule, not because not doing it would force you to stick to an OS version that doesn't get security fixes any more. We've implemented some fixes for the worst things like Shellshock in CentOS 4 (EOL for a couple of years now), and it's a major PITA.
Of course no sane person would want to use this on a workstation.
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@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
CentOSucks? No thanks.
It makes sense when you're deploying somewhere where updates are very difficult in the first place, and hence where stability is a principal concern. (I know people working with industrial control systems, and they really don't like having to take things down to update on any schedule that isn't exactly in line with when the factory floor is down for general maintenance.) Don't want it on systems where I'm using it for myself though.
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@bb36e said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Red Star OS
Cool, you can even download it (with thanks to the Wikipedia page for the link). I might have to give this a try just for the novelty value.
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@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Weng said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
So you've been through... Six entirely different distributions since 2009?
Ubuntu: 2007-2010
Xubuntu: 2011-2012
Mandriva: 2012-2013
Linux Mint: 2013-2016
Manjaro: 2015-presentOr something like that. That's 5 I mentioned, although I tried some massive number of others (Puppy Linux, KNOPPIX, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Google Chrome OS, Zorin, Arch....) in there as well. But you have to realize that I was trying different distros for fun until 2013 when I went to college — Linux and Python were basically my life in high school — and it's not like people haven't had to go between XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 in that span either.
If you're used to RPM based package management, maybe you can also check CentOS out.
My friends using that have generally good comments on it, especially if you're using NVidia cards, they'll warn you ahead of possible problems.
CentOSucks? No thanks. Been there, tried that, hated every minute of it's crappy years-behind-repos-and-otherwise-shoddy-everything-blargh-ew-gross-no-bye-k-thanks-have-the-fish-im-leaving
One word: elementary OS. If those guys keep their course, they're gonna revolutionize the way we think about Linux!
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@kt_ said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
If those guys keep their course
The GTK project is going to be doing its damndest to make sure they can't :-)
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@flabdablet said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@kt_ said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
If those guys keep their course
The GTK project is going to be doing its damndest to make sure they can't :-)
Well, this could screw them. But so far they're going in the right direction.
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@kt_ said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
screw them
If we're talking about GTK, that's exactly the right attitude.
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@LaoC said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
My workplace is a Java shop and it's amazing how these types are able to break compatibility in minor releases. Taking an application from Wildfly 8.1 to 8.2 is a major effort. 8 to 9 took long enough for 10 to be released meanwhile. Some shit still runs with Tomcat 6 on CentOS 4.
I feel a bit sick reading this. We're still on JBoss 7 (EAP 6), the version before the rename to Wildfly. I still have flashbacks to the 5 7 upgrade (4 5 was relatively painless).
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@kt_ Yeah, they even have an .io domain!
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@Gurth said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@bb36e said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Red Star OS
Cool, you can even download it (with thanks to the Wikipedia page for the link). I might have to give this a try just for the novelty value.
Enjoy your North Korean spyware...
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@blek said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@kt_ Yeah, they even have an .io domain!
They used to have a .org, but since they are an LLC they decided to change it, so they don't mislead people. And I assume elementary.com was already taken.
And let's face it, OS is all about IO.
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@boomzilla said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
I feel a bit sick reading this. We're still on JBoss 7 (EAP 6), the version before the rename to Wildfly. I still have flashbacks to the 5 7 upgrade (4 5 was relatively painless).
Oh yeah, JBoss 7. There are still some of those floating around somewhere, too ... although they mostly migrated, the Tomcats were balkier.
Honestly I have no idea how the application server guys manage to do this. I've had to roll back a Tomcat 8.0.38 to 8.0.35 after I naïvely installed it thinking, oh, it's a bugfix update, should be fine. No, it broke the webapp
Can't be so hard to keep breaking changes to major updates, can it? "Write once, run anywhere" has been more true of any old C shit than of Java.
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@kt_ said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
One word: elementary OS. If those guys keep their course, they're gonna revolutionize the way we think about Linux!
They had me until "Epiphany", although I should have bailed at all those client-side decorations already.
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@anotherusername said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Enjoy your North Korean spyware...
Definitely spyware but interesting.
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@LaoC said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Of course no sane person would want to use this on a workstation.
@dkf said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Don't want it on systems where I'm using it for myself though.
Precisely.
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@kt_ said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Weng said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
So you've been through... Six entirely different distributions since 2009?
Ubuntu: 2007-2010
Xubuntu: 2011-2012
Mandriva: 2012-2013
Linux Mint: 2013-2016
Manjaro: 2015-presentOr something like that. That's 5 I mentioned, although I tried some massive number of others (Puppy Linux, KNOPPIX, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Google Chrome OS, Zorin, Arch....) in there as well. But you have to realize that I was trying different distros for fun until 2013 when I went to college — Linux and Python were basically my life in high school — and it's not like people haven't had to go between XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 in that span either.
If you're used to RPM based package management, maybe you can also check CentOS out.
My friends using that have generally good comments on it, especially if you're using NVidia cards, they'll warn you ahead of possible problems.
CentOSucks? No thanks. Been there, tried that, hated every minute of it's crappy years-behind-repos-and-otherwise-shoddy-everything-blargh-ew-gross-no-bye-k-thanks-have-the-fish-im-leaving
One word: elementary OS. If those guys keep their course, they're gonna revolutionize the way we think about Linux!
I'm getting all these OS suggestions — didn't I mention how happy I am running Manjaro/OpenRC/i3wm?
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@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@kt_ said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Weng said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
So you've been through... Six entirely different distributions since 2009?
Ubuntu: 2007-2010
Xubuntu: 2011-2012
Mandriva: 2012-2013
Linux Mint: 2013-2016
Manjaro: 2015-presentOr something like that. That's 5 I mentioned, although I tried some massive number of others (Puppy Linux, KNOPPIX, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Google Chrome OS, Zorin, Arch....) in there as well. But you have to realize that I was trying different distros for fun until 2013 when I went to college — Linux and Python were basically my life in high school — and it's not like people haven't had to go between XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 in that span either.
If you're used to RPM based package management, maybe you can also check CentOS out.
My friends using that have generally good comments on it, especially if you're using NVidia cards, they'll warn you ahead of possible problems.
CentOSucks? No thanks. Been there, tried that, hated every minute of it's crappy years-behind-repos-and-otherwise-shoddy-everything-blargh-ew-gross-no-bye-k-thanks-have-the-fish-im-leaving
One word: elementary OS. If those guys keep their course, they're gonna revolutionize the way we think about Linux!
I'm getting all these OS suggestions — didn't I mention how happy I am running Manjaro/OpenRC/i3wm?
Fuck you, blakey.
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@dkf said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@LaoC said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
No, it broke the webapp
Classloader shenanigans? :(
Not quite, something more subtle. I'm not sure what the exact cause was or even if the devs knew but it seemed to start up fine but then didn't behave the way it should
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@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
I'm getting all these OS suggestions — didn't I mention how happy I am running Manjaro/OpenRC/i3wm?
Sounds like just down my alley.
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@asdf If you read the comments on that link, you'll see it is in fact a bug in the Debian package upstream, not Ubuntu.
Just use gcc. Clearly clang isn't ready for real-world use yet.
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@anotherusername said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Enjoy your North Korean spyware...
Isn’t that why they invented virtual machines?
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@Gurth said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@anotherusername said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Enjoy your North Korean spyware...
Isn’t that why they invented virtual machines?
Is it connected to your LAN?
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@Gurth said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Isn’t that why they invented virtual machines?
No.
They invented it for Visual Studio, because every time you install it, you have a chance to completely break your OS.
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@TimeBandit said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Gurth said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Isn’t that why they invented virtual machines?
No.
They invented it for Visual Studio, because every time you install it, you have a chance to completely break your OS.
Get off my lawn with this
!
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@TimeBandit said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@Gurth said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Isn’t that why they invented virtual machines?
No.
They invented it for Visual Studio, because every time you install it, youhave a chanceare guaranteed to completely break your OS.
FTF Y
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@gordonjcp said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
If you read the comments on that link, you'll see it is in fact a bug in the Debian package upstream, not Ubuntu.
Doesn't change the fact that nobody tested the package. Ubuntu package maintainers love to patch Debian packages, but only to make them support their crap, not to fix actual bugs.
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@anotherusername said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
Is it connected to your LAN?
It won’t be if I have anything to do with it, and I will. Whenever I get round to/feel like actually installing this thing, anyway.
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The Ubuntu repositories still have Eclipse 3.8
Eclipse 3.8 was released in June 2012. Fucking 2012.
Like WTF are their maintainers even doing?
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@anonymous234 said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
The Ubuntu repositories still have Eclipse 3.8
Eclipse 3.8 was released in June 2012. Fucking 2012.
Like WTF are their maintainers even doing?onyx@dev1:~$ uname -a Linux dev1 4.8.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.8.5-1 (2016-10-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux onyx@dev1:~$ sudo apt-cache show eclipse Package: eclipse Version: 3.8.1-10 Installed-Size: 115 Maintainer: Debian Orbital Alignment Team <pkg-java-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org> Architecture: all <snip>Same in Debian (I initially thought it's newer there, misread). Well, there's an email to yell at people, I guess?
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@Onyx said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
there's an email to yell at people, I guess?
Yell away if you think it will help.
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This post is deleted!
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@flabdablet Personally, I don't give enough of a smeg since I avoid Java like a plague.
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@LaoC said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
@pydsigner said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
CentOSucks? No thanks. Been there, tried that, hated every minute of it's crappy years-behind-repos-and-otherwise-shoddy-everything-blargh-ew-gross-no-bye-k-thanks-have-the-fish-im-leaving
I can appreciate it now that I've been working with it for a few years. If you need to make sure you can run your mission critical gazillion-line hyper-complex application as-is for the next decade, you need something ultra stable. Which necessarily means ultra outdated at some point, but sometimes that's preferable to finding you have to do major maintenance because the latest OS version comes with a newer version of $SOFTWARE that yours doesn't like. My workplace is a Java shop and it's amazing how these types are able to break compatibility in minor releases. Taking an application from Wildfly 8.1 to 8.2 is a major effort. 8 to 9 took long enough for 10 to be released meanwhile. Some shit still runs with Tomcat 6 on CentOS 4. So you want to do this on your schedule, not because not doing it would force you to stick to an OS version that doesn't get security fixes any more. We've implemented some fixes for the worst things like Shellshock in CentOS 4 (EOL for a couple of years now), and it's a major PITA.
Of course no sane person would want to use this on a workstation.
OK, lets try this again with the right post referenced this time.
This is probably why there seems to be a big push in the Java world to not use full JavaEE servers any more, but just use a Servlet container (Tomcat, Jetty, etc...) behind Apache/nginx and then add the libraries you want directly using your Java build tool (Maven/Gradle).
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@powerlord I loathe Jetty. It's just so annoying to configure if the configuration isn't exactly what the original author envisaged.
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@cheong said in Ubuntu is a fucking trainwreck:
If you're used to RPM based package management, maybe you can also
check CentOS outrid yourself of Stockholm Syndrome and come over to the apt side.
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@flabdablet Serious question: why? I keep hearing that, but I don't get what's better about it. About all I know how to do is
sudo apt-get install, but I always spend 10 minutes flailing to guess the exact name of the package I need and how much of the version number I need to type. I'd love to become an apt fan, but I don't understand what I should be admiring.
Red Star OS - Wikipedia
#681726 - eclipse: Upgrade to latest upstream release (HELP WANTED) - Debian Bug report logs
