Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?
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@Yamikuronue It used to be worse.
I still use Visual Studio 2010 (Almost all my own clients are on .NET 4.0) and if you are using node it just assumed if you were using Windows 8 that you had installed 2012 and 8.1 it assumed 2013 so you have to specify the ms tool version.
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@boomzilla said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@Yamikuronue said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
begs to differ
@Groaner might even say that Windows users feel gypped.
He might.
But, more important, he would also wonder why someone would want to install the Node ecosystem on a machine that's already capable of running ASP.NET Webforms and ASP.NET Marvel vs. Capcom applications.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
MS has always provided the build tools separately
weβre also announcing a new way of acquiring the C++ tools: as a standalone installer that only lays down the tools required to build C++ projects without installing the Visual Studio IDE
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@loopback0 That was my recollection, too. The thread I linked implies that Microsoft did that because of the Node community; a Microsoft rep was following the chain as it grew.
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@loopback0 Since no-one can be bothered to fucking search:
And they did the same fucking thing for Vista, XP, and older.
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@Yamikuronue It's been a decade since I've checked (since I've had an MSDN subscription for 8 years or so), but I know I had the Visual Studio 2005 C++ compiler installed without ever having Visual Studio 2005.
Edit: Apparently Microsoft had discontinued the practice of shipping them separately sometime on or before 2014.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
Since no-one can be bothered to fucking search:
I found my link by accident, obviously.
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@powerlord said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
Apparently Microsoft had discontinued the practice of shipping them separately sometime on or before 2014.
Doesn't explain why Microsoft decided to stop shipping them on their own and then start again claiming it was new though
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This post is deleted!
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@loopback0 The Windows SDK has always included a C++ compiler, and it has always been available in one form or another.
And @Yamikuronue, VC8.0 means Visual C++ 8.0. Note, if you will, the '++'. That means it has a C++ compiler.
Or are we going to continue assuming StackOverflow knows more about Microsoft software than Microsoft?
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@RaceProUK Whatever, I'm sure you're the expert in all things Microsoft, I bow before your knowledge oh mighty blak-- racepro.
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@Yamikuronue Fuck off with the attitude. I have provided more than enough proof, yet you still insist on calling me a liar.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
The Windows SDK has always included a C++ compiler
But it has not always been available separately, which was the original assertion.
@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
knows more about Microsoft software than Microsoft?
I might continue assuming Microsoft know about as much about Microsoft software as Microsoft.
@loopback0 said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
MS has always provided the build tools separately
weβre also announcing a new way of acquiring the C++ tools: as a standalone installer that only lays down the tools required to build C++ projects without installing the Visual Studio IDE
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@RaceProUK Stop fucking swearing at me you fucking---
Whatever. I'm out. You win, just leave me the hell alone.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
yet you still insist on calling me a liar.
No-one called you a liar.
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@loopback0 said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
But it has not always been available separately, which was the original assertion.
Yes it has. Do you think MS took down all the versions of the Windows SDK just to put them straight back up again? Of course they fucking didn't. So unless you can find something from Microsoft themselves saying they took them down, you're full of shit.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
Yes it has
No - it's been included in the Windows SDK, but not provided separately.
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@loopback0 Oh, so the compiler should just magically work without the header files and libraries from the SDK?
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@RaceProUK I'm just disagreeing for the sake of it at this point.
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@jaming said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@boomzilla Yeah, if only IDE's came in Docker containers... Then I wouldn't have to configure my installed JRE's!
Crap, I seem to have started some sort of IDE dependency flame war.
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@Adynathos said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
The hope is that Docker's features will be integrated into the OS.
What? You mean anything other than user namespace + network namespace + ... oh wait it is the OS
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@jaming said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
if only IDE's came in Docker containers
docker run --rm -ti saturnism/go-ide
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@boomzilla said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@jaming Probably not completely unlike how IDEs solve the problem of "remembering method names" for crappy developers!
Best things are invented by
crappylazy developers, in fact the entire history of modern humans is full of their crap.
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@boomzilla said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@apapadimoulis said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
The problem is step 3. Dockerfans say its good because "the latest version of dependencies are better because they are tested very well by everyone else and have a bunch of fixed bugs you didn't even know existed before". Those grounded in reality, or at least who care about not having constantly broken and/or untestable software, know better.
Oh. So docker always gets the latest? You can't specify a version? Yes, that's retarted if true.
Ehr, no. When you create your
Dockerfile
with build instructions for a container you need to specify a base image. If you're naive you can specifyFROM debian
and always get the latest, but that image actually has "tags" so you can specifyFROM debian:7.10
("tags" in docker image repos are not immutabke things, they may get updated). If you really want to have a fixed version then you should reference the actual digest, similar to a git commit id.Same really with whatever you put inside your container: if you're using
apt-get
, specify the versions already.
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@loopback0 said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
I found my link by accident, obviously.
Can you find mine too?
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@loopback0 said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
I'm just disagreeing for the sake of it at this point.
The true way of having a discussion on TDWTF
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@Luhmann Nah, I'm just a lying sack of shit that knows absolutely fuck-all about software she's been using for nearly 20 years.
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@RaceProUK
Have you ever noticed how much you resemble blakeyrat when arguing about software?
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@RaceProUK
No need to be all defensive. There was no sneer at you in my posts.
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@aliceif My apologies for assuming people here have a basic level of intelligence
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@RaceProUK Yes, it's a compiler. Why would the compiler itself need the header files?
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@RaceProUK To be honest, if people are using Node on Windows i would just tell them to install Visual Studio as it is simpler than fucking around with the SDK.
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@Luhmann said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
There was no sneer at you in my posts.
Likewise. But I guess some people think random idiots on GitHub and StackOverflow are more trustworthy than a friend.
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@lucas1 said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@RaceProUK To be honest, if people are using Node on Windows i would just tell them to install Visual Studio as it is simpler than fucking around with the SDK.
Whether they install the SDK or the full VS, they're still stuck installing a bunch of crap they'll never use. Likewise with
build-essentials
if you really think about it. I don't think there's a point in bitching about it, just install the bloated tools and get back to work.What I want to know is why the hell a nodejs package needs a C++ compiler! I thought the "js" in "Node.js" stood for javascript. This is one of my biggest complaints about open-sourcey projects, eventually someone will insist on using their own special snowflake process with their favorite pet language and fuck up everyone else. Like StarOffice, which advertised itself as being written in C++, requiring you to install the JVM. (Or compiling the entire Go standard library into a node module just to replace
<
with<
on a web forum )
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
a friend.
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@NedFodder said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
What I want to know is why the hell a nodejs package needs a C++ compiler!
Same reason Java has JNI and .NET has P/Invoke: some things cannot be done in managed code.
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@Yamikuronue Fuck off
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@RaceProUK I can't. I have to fucking post to fucking mafia because there's at least one goddamn fucking person on this fucking forum I don't want to disappoint and NodeBB won't stop notifying me.
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@Yamikuronue You can do that without fucking bothering me about it
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What I want to know is why the hell a nodejs package needs a C++ compiler! I thought the "js" in "Node.js" stood for javascript.
They are used primarily to provide an interface between JavaScript running in Node.js and C/C++ libraries.
This is why you can have a node js sound api e.g. https://www.npmjs.com/package/node-core-audio
and why you can also build program with native ui widgets.
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@lucas1 So I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before someone finds a way to get node to run code from a C# library, and everyone gets Mono as a dependency. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should.
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@NedFodder Already happened.
For some people don't bitch about python or ruby doing exactly the same thing with their C / C++ extensions, but bitch about it when it comes to node.
There are some pretty decent legitimate uses, for example code marshalling from node to C# is pretty effective for offloading to C# things that node.js doesn't perform well at.
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@lucas1 That's it, I give up!
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@dcon said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
Yeah, the VS installer is pure crap.
All Microsoft installers are terrible like this. They make some great products, but they can never be uninstalled cleanly.
I once had a corrupt sql server install that I uninstalled, but no other version of sql server would install on that machine, until I formatted it.
The only form of installation I accept as good is unzipping it in a directory. If you write in the registry or system32 I hate you for that.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
I'm just a lying sack of shit that knows absolutely fuck-all about software she's been using for nearly 20 years.
Alright blakeyPro. No-one called you a liar or a sack of shit.
Clean the sand out of your vagina and calm down.
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@apapadimoulis Out of curiosity, do you have any links that objectively describe problems with Docker? Some of my co-workers have been playing with it. I'd like to give them a serious article to consider if one's available.
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@RaceProUK said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
Same reason Java has JNI and .NET has P/Invoke: some things cannot be done in managed code.
And some things that can be done in managed code are better done unmanaged anyway, at least for now.
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@dkf said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
And some things that can be done in managed code are better done unmanaged anyway, at least for now.
?
Like what? I've yet to find such a poblem.
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@Yamikuronue said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
You forgot:
... snip a bunch of things that are op's job...So, if you think your ops team is incompetent, the solution is... do their job for them using a bunch of code and hope they won't understand it?
That's just pure developer arrogance, the same shit seen on the business side. "I know they say the business requirements are X, but they're a bunch of analyst monkeys who can't possibly understand the complexity of the business, plus that will require a lot of boring code to have to write, so I'm just gonna implement this rules engine instead, and they'll like it cause i'm smarter than them and know what they actually need."
Developers can hardly create usable software on time; having them manage infrastructure is as foolish as having them do business requirements.
How about, understand, empathize, and collaborate?
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@swayde said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
@dkf said in Is "deploying to Docker containers" now a thing?:
And some things that can be done in managed code are better done unmanaged anyway, at least for now.
?
Like what? I've yet to find such a poblem.Well, if you're writing a game, and an unmanaged solution lets you avoid using the turd that is Unity, I'd consider that a plus.