More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense
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@Rhywden said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@kt_ Hyperbole much?
Hyperbole a little.
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@kt_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You're cynical, clearly you don't understand the importance of stuff those guys talk about.
Not at all.
Big BMi¢ro$oft loves us! He protects us from Emmanuel Torvalds!
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@boomzilla said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@kt_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You're cynical, clearly you don't understand the importance of stuff those guys talk about.
Not at all.
Big BMi¢ro$oft loves us! He protects us from Emmanuel Torvalds!Why Emmanuel?
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@kt_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Why Emmanuel?
He's the enemy! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein
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@kt_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Why Emmanuel?
Read books, dammit. BOOKS!
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@blakeyrat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@kt_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Why Emmanuel?
Read books, dammit. BOOKS!
I tried to, but Amazon deleted it before I could.
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@blakeyrat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@kt_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Why Emmanuel?
Read books, dammit. BOOKS!
Yeah, cause this name rings only one bell.
On the other hand, it's been a while since I read Blair… I have to finally read his Homage to Catalonia.
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TL:DR A Woman sued Microsoft for an automatic (assumed permission) Windows 10 Update because it borked her computer and she could not continue to use it for her business. Microsoft settled out of court.
Comment: I guess Microsoft settled because they did not want to set a legal precedent and thus open the floodgates to similar claims. FAIL! If they were sure of their position they should have allowed it to go to trial. Yes, they could have lost but doing it this way sends a totally different message - they are, essentially, admitting liability in a way that is very non- specific.
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See also https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/923812
(Why do we have so many Windows 10 threads?)
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
(Why do we have so many Windows 10 threads?)
Because we're all techies and we all love to
bitch bitchcomplain, and because a number of us have had issues.
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
(Why do we have so many Windows 10 threads?)
Because Windows 10 is a
n assholeWTF, apparently.
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@loose said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
A Woman sued Microsoft for an automatic (assumed permission) Windows 10 Update because it borked her computer and she could not continue to use it for her business. Microsoft settled out of court.
Well there you go. Not even Microsoft can be bothered reading the Windows EULA.
26. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES. You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
This limitation applies to
· anything related to the software, services, content (including code) on third party Internet sites, or third party programs; and
· claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.
It also applies even if
· repair, replacement or a refund for the software does not fully compensate you for any losses; or
· Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of the damages.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. They also may not apply to you because your country may not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or other damages.
California is not one such state.
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@flabdablet said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Not even Microsoft can be bothered reading the Windows EULA.
even if they had the courts have more than a few times ruled that terms of the EULA are unenforcable. it may be that microsoft backed down because they didn't want the judge to set a legal precident by determining that your quoted term was unenforceable, thus leading to the rather awkward situation of everyone coming out of the woodwork to sue because now they can make M$FT liable for damages.
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And now Akke's computer is updating to Windows 10 in the middle of the TI regional qualifiers.
"Hey, Microsoft, if I win two more games of Dota I'll be in a tournament with a $14m prize pool"
"No. Fuck you. Windows 10."
At least it wasn't during a game.
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@JazzyJosh Do you shoot aliens in Dota 2?
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@boomzilla Uh, Oracle is alien, so... yes? Probably Morphling and Phoenix too. Enigma is gravity. Do you want to shoot gravity?
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@JazzyJosh Just checking if Dota 2 should qualify for an exemption from important updates.
The answer is no: shooting aliens is not a valid alternative to applying updates RIGHT NOW.
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@JazzyJosh Maybe scheduling the update for when you have something important going on is a bad idea?
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Maybe scheduling the update for when you have something important going on is a bad idea?
Maybe Microsoft shouldn't auto-schedule a fucking OS upgrade.
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@boomzilla What if you didn't shoot Aliens?
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@JazzyJosh Does it? People keep saying it does, but as far as I know, you have to press a button that says you want it scheduled.
Here's a cool trick: if your computer has been saying for the last two days that you have updates ready to install, maybe you should take a moment and reboot before doing anything important?
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Here's a cool trick: lay back and enjoy it
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@boomzilla Basically. If your computer says "I will reboot in three hours" and you know you'll be doing something in three hours, it's common sense to reboot it immediately.
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@Magus I know it doesn't happen for me either, but with this many reports, I have to assume they're doing some AB testing with it.
Actually, no, I think it did auto schedule, or at least auto-select, for me, but I noticed it before it installed.
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@JazzyJosh said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I know it doesn't happen for me either, but with this many reports, I have to assume they're doing some AB testing with it.
Typical user nonsense. People don't read dialogs and buttons. They probably thought the schedule button was 'remind me later'. I'm fairly certain it selects the date automatically,, but you can preempt it if you're doing it anyway.
It's seriously crazy how people take this.
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@boomzilla Basically. If your computer says "I will reboot in three hours" and you know you'll be doing something in three hours, it's common sense to reboot it immediately.
My computer never tells me stuff like that. It tells me that it needs to restart and then I do that when I'm ready. Though typically I'll know that particular updates will require that and I just wait until I'm ready to restart before letting them update.
But also my update system doesn't take forever like Windows Update.
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Typical user nonsense. People don't read dialogs and buttons. They probably thought the schedule button was 'remind me later'. I'm fairly certain it selects the date automatically,, but you can preempt it if you're doing it anyway.
They probably think it is their computer and they have control over it.
Idiots !!!
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
They probably think it is their computer and they have control over it.
They do. When you press a button, the computer does what you told it to do. If you tell it to schedule an update for you because you didn't read the text onscreen, it's your own fault.
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
They do. When you press a button, the computer does what you told it to do.
Like when you click the close button ?
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@TimeBandit You read or you take what happens if you don't. Admittedly this seems vaguely underhanded, but assuming yes is still a good idea for most consumers imo, since at the very least they'll be on a more secure OS if they refuse to read.
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@Magus On my heathen Linux ElementaryOS install, if there are updates I get a pop up box saying there are updates, and asks me if I want to install them. If I do, then it downloads and installs them, and if it needs a reboot, it gives me a pop up box saying it needs a restart, with the options to restart now or later. If I chose later, it will give me a pop up at least once every day until I do.
This seems far better than what Windows 10 is doing. If it happens to a lot of people, and a lot of people DON'T LIKE IT, then maybe, just maybe, something needs to be rethinked.
For the record, I do use Windows 10 on our desktop.
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
(Why do we have so many Windows 10 threads?)
Because the threads for win7, win 8 and win8.1 were all upgraded to win10
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@Erufael said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
On my heathen Linux ElementaryOS install, if there are updates I get a pop up box saying there are updates, and asks me if I want to install them. If I do, then it downloads and installs them, and if it needs a reboot, it gives me a pop up box saying it needs a restart, with the options to restart now or later. If I chose later, it will give me a pop up at least once every day until I do.
That's great!
But noobs don't use linux. They use what comes on their machine. And they never change what's on their machine. They keep running XP, even to this day, and only update if they're forced. They're naturally at risk. They don't read, and they click links in emails.
These are the users who benefit from this. And they benefit enormously.
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@Magus That wasn't my point. My point wasn't that they should necessarily switch to Linux, but that Windows should be more intuitive.
If something happens, and it comes as a surprise to the user, then that is not intuitive.
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
These are the users who benefit from this. And they benefit enormously.
Because a minority of users are dumb idiots, the rest of the world as to suffer.
We should also ban cars, there is a bunch of idiots that don't know how to drive. We should prevent them from injuring themselves.
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@TimeBandit The majority of computer users are idiots as are the majority of drivers.
And I'm sure most computer users, like most drivers, deny that they are included in that group.
Cars are a terrible example to choose as they are constantly being changed to reduce the damage an idiot can do, to the point we've got to now which is removing the idiot from driving altogether.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Because a minority of users are dumb idiots, the rest of the world as to
sufferread.This is what I'm saying, and what's happening. And I don't know that it counts as a minority.
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@coldandtired said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit The majority
of computer usersare idiotsFTFY
@coldandtired said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
to the point we've got to now which is removing the idiot from driving altogether.
Only then we will be safe from those idiots.
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@TimeBandit In other words computers should become more like cars and take steps to minimize the damage idiots (i.e. most people) can do to others. Which is what MS is doing.
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
They keep running XP, even to this day, and only update if they're forced.
In other words, when the hardware fails and they buy a new machine.
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
We should also ban cars, there is a bunch of idiots that don't know how to drive. We should prevent them from injuring themselves.
We try to - we make then get a license.
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@coldandtired said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit In other words computers should become more like cars and take steps to minimize the damage idiots (i.e. most people) can do to others. Which is what MS is doing.
But I wan't to keep driving my car, thank you anyway.
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@TimeBandit And you can, until eventually your car requires a part that isn't produced any more, or it fails its inspection (if you live in a developed part of the world).
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@coldandtired said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
if you live in a developed part of the world
What about in the US?
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@dkf said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@coldandtired said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
if you live in a developed part of the world
What about in the US?
You might need an inspection
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@bb36e said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense
@JazzyJosh said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Oracle is alien
Given the lack of human qualities exhibited by
theirlawyers, this is not a surprise.Preemptive FTFY
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@Tsaukpaetra said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You might need an inspection
I saw a movie like that once!
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@dcon said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
We try to - we make then get a license.
Because they will always have the same level of concentration and will always care just as much as when they are under official scrutiny. Students never forget anything after taking a test, so we can just make sure everyone passes tests and then we can heavily rely on the absolute fact that they have the knowledge permanently for life, even when they are tired or sick or intoxicated.
In all seriousness, I don't like Microsoft's handling of the Windows 10 upgrade, and especially not the recent decision to auto schedule without consent, but I think there is a vocal minority complaining about it and that the vast majority of people have been benefitted by the upgrade experience and just not talked about it much. Of course I have no hard evidence to back up my claim - it's just the impression I have.
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@LB_ there seem to be two main camps of complainers: people who consider themselves power users and htink they're smarter than Microsoft, and people who haven't noticed the upgrade notification for some reason and have been burned by an unexpected restart.
The first lot always complain loudly at any new Windows version. Most probably use Linux anyway because they're too good for an OS that most people use.
Most of the second group could probably have averted their problems by paying more attention and either making sure they were ready for the scheduled restart or doing it themselves.
The notification in 10 could stand to be a bit less unobtrusive. I liked the little window that 7 popped up with options to restart now or postpone for up to 4 hours. It's a hard problem though, since people will actively resist reading a screen like that, but the updates do need to be applied.
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@Jaloopa said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
the updates do need to be applied
There you go, putting the needs of the system before the needs of the user. While yes, they do want their system to have updates applied to it, they don't want the reboots because in practice they tend to lose their place in what they are doing during a reboot (MS could do better at this than they do right now, even if just for their own applications) and they don't want to be forced to stop what they are doing at the moment. They also don't want to be forced to download lots of things “Right Now!!!” and so on.
The principal purpose of a computer is not keeping the operating system up to date. That's overhead, a impost that detracts from the principal purpose.
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@dkf but if they don't force updates people refuse to apply them, then complain that Windows is insecure because they weren't kept up to date.
Protecting a user's personal information isn't the principal purpose of an OS, but it's a damn important one