More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense
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@Jaloopa said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
but if they don't force updates people refuse to apply them
But they refuse to apply them because the updates cause problems. You know what's the core issue here? That applying updates causes loss of work, including loss of seemingly trivial things like what windows were open and where they were positioned. Perhaps MS should have tried addressing that issue sometime? If the amount of user-experienced configuration loss was lower, people wouldn't be so inclined to postpone updates…
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loss of work, including loss of seemingly trivial things like what windows were open and where they were positioned.
Yay!!! Somebody gets it! That is lost work. Sure, I can save the files I'm editing (if Windows bothers to tell me in advance it's going to reboot), and sometimes Explorer will remember its windows, and Chrome will usually remember its session, but the rest of the windows are gone. In some cases, "recent files" will serve to get back the files I was working on, but not usually where I was in the files, but for some other windows, closing the window causes an unrecoverable loss of data. Take, for example, a command shell or console; the content of the window is gone. Some command shells save their command history; others don't. Even for shells that keep a history between sessions, if you have more than one window open, you probably won't get the history for all of them, at least not without significant, manual intervention.
All this represents work that is lost by a reboot. There is never a convenient time for this, but some times are definitely more inconvenient than others. Rebooting in the middle of my work day interrupts my work and is Belgium annoying, but at least I stand a reasonable chance of remembering what I was in the middle of. Reboot at 03:00 when the computer is idle, and there's a 99% chance the laptop will be in a carrying bag with no power, network or ventilation, and when I wake up in the morning I'm going to be royally pissed, because I won't remember all the things I was working on the previous day.
In short, nag the Belgium shit out of me, and eventually I'll get annoyed enough to let you reboot, but never, never, never, Belgium never Belgium reboot without my Belgium explicit permission.
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That's what buggered me about it at work. I was testing some build script fixes, and my workstation is set up like a build server so I can test/debug build stuff locally. And for this particular product a full run of the build scripts takes about three hours. And two hours in, Windows 10 auto-rebooted without notification1 and cancelled my build, causing me to lose two hours of work which I then had to repeat. I wasted at least half a work day because of that.
Our IT department finally seems to have "fixed" this stuff. It seems Windows Update is now 100% disabled for Windows 10 users via Group Policy.
1 Regardless of what anyone here says, neither I nor anyone in my office have ever seen this supposed three-day warning of pending reboots. So don't even go there, because it doesn't actually exist.
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@Jaloopa said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
The notification in 10 could stand to be a bit less
unobtrusiveinvisible.I posted in another thread that I actually observed the stealth notification in action; if I hadn't been looking at the computer during the 3 – 5 seconds the notification was visible, I would have had no idea that a reboot was pending.
The notification slid in from the bottom right corner of the laptop screen. I was probably looking at one of the external monitors, but saw the motion out of the corner of my eye and looked over before the notification disappeared. There was no trace of the notification in the "Action Area" or whatever it's called. (AFAICT, the Action Area is utterly useless; there are never any notifications except for received mail, which I very likely already read long before I noticed the notification icon.) The only persistent indication that there was a reboot pending was a notification icon that had been added to the task bar, except Windows decided it wasn't important enough to make it visible, but instead had stuffed into the hidden icons pop-up. If I hadn't known to specifically look for it (and I only knew that because last time it happened, Windows had left the unfamiliar icon visible on the task bar), I would have been completely blind-sided by the eventual forced reboot.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
The only persistent indication that there was a reboot pending was a notification icon that had been added to the task bar
What the... I've never seen or heard of this o_o I even go through all my tray icons to close background programs before restarting and I feel like I would notice a new tray icon...
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I feel like I would notice a new tray icon...
It's not new - it's always there. With my background, mine changes from a black-filled "thought" bubble to a white one.
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@dcon said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
mine changes from a black-filled "thought" bubble to a white one.
I was talking about the "reboot pending" icon, which is green and circular; not the "you have notifications" icon. It's not just a circle, but I forget exactly what it looks like (the "settings" gear, maybe?). If I remember, I'll grab a screenshot next time I see it (if I see it before Windows forces the reboot it kinda sorta told me about).
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
People don't read dialogs and buttons.
People don't even listen to what's being said to them in mouth words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2mdwmpLYLY#t=4m7s
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Because a minority of users are dumb idiots, the rest of the world as to suffer.
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@HardwareGeek Windows isn't spatial, so of course it doesn't save window sizes or positions. This is the part where we lament Mac Classic, the only OS to ever get this shit right.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@dcon said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
mine changes from a black-filled "thought" bubble to a white one.
I was talking about the "reboot pending" icon, which is green and circular; not the "you have notifications" icon. It's not just a circle, but I forget exactly what it looks like (the "settings" gear, maybe?). If I remember, I'll grab a screenshot next time I see it (if I see it before Windows forces the reboot it kinda sorta told me about).
The only reboot one I've seen is transient. And then it drops a notification into the Action Center.
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transient.
Yes
And then it drops a notification into the Action Center.
No. At least I've never seen notifications for anything but mail there.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
No. At least I've never seen notifications for anything but mail there.
I could be getting confused with fast ring builds. Since my production win10 machine doesn't reboot too often. (Yes, another FR build today - b14376)
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@dcon No, I'm on 10586.420 and the update notification definitely goes to my action center if I miss it. I've come back to my computer after being away for hours or so and the notification has been there, waiting for me to schedule a time to restart. I've never seen the tray icon @HardwareGeek has.
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@flabdablet said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Because a minority of users are dumb idiots, the rest of the world
as to suffersees repeated Jim Jefferies youtube posts.
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@blakeyrat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
This is the part where we lament Mac Classic, the only OS to ever get this shit right.
OSX does a creditable job at it too, though there's some (third-party) applications which Don't Play Nice.
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@boomzilla said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@flabdablet said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Because a minority of users are dumb idiots, the rest of the world
as to suffersees repeated Jim Jefferies youtube posts.
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I've never seen the tray icon @HardwareGeek has.
I dunno why my experience is different. Win10 Enterprise, darned if I see a build number anywhere.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Win10 Enterprise
That's what I'm on.
darned if I see a build number anywhere
The easiest way is in a cmd shell, type 'ver'.
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winver
shows the decimal point (e.g. 420) whereas justver
doesn't, it seems.
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
winver
shows the decimal point (e.g. 420) whereas justver
doesn't, it seems.E_NO_REPRO (because Windows 7?)
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@Tsaukpaetra Because Windows 7.
10.0.10586
versus1511
+10586.420
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
The notification slid in from the bottom right corner of the laptop screen. I was probably looking at one of the external monitors, but saw the motion out of the corner of my eye and looked over before the notification disappeared.
Once it does, you get a different icon in the notification area, that doesn't go away until you dismiss the notification.
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@flabdablet said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Jim Jefferies -- Gun Control (Part 2) from BARE -- Netflix Special – [00:09..00:12] 07:52
MAKE IT STOP MAKE IT STOP
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@dcon said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
That's what I'm on.
10586.420; also same as you.
@FrostCat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
you get a different icon in the notification area, that doesn't go away until you dismiss the notification
I think this is almost certainly what I saw, except the notification area was too "cluttered," so Windows decided to hide it, because the volume control is obviously more important than an automatic reboot.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Windows decided to hide it,
This doesn't get hidden. You must be thinking of something else.
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@FrostCat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
This doesn't get hidden. You must be thinking of something else.
We are talking past each other, apparently. No, that doesn't get hidden, but I rather wish it did; it seems to be mostly useless. It indicates unread (or undismissed; whatever) notifications in the Action Center, which would be useful, were in not for the fact that the only notifications that show up there are notifications for new mail, and which don't disappear even when I've read the mail.
(The new mail notifications are there mostly first thing in the morning. I have a hypothesis that notifications only get stuck in the Action Center when the computer is off-line. Any notifications that arrive while I'm using the computer, Windows thinks I've already seen, and doesn't bother persisting them.)
The icon I'm talking about, and which I thought you were talking about, is one of the ones like Outlook new mail, Steam, Safely Remove Hardware, network connection, and the like that may appear and disappear from the notification area. This one happens to be (approximately) a hollow green circle.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
The new mail notifications are there mostly first thing in the morning. I have a hypothesis that notifications only get stuck in the Action Center when the computer is off-line. Any notifications that arrive while I'm using the computer, Windows thinks I've already seen, and doesn't bother persisting them.)
Sorry to blow your hypothesis out of the water ... I opened the notification panel and there was a mail notification for a mail I got during office hours yesterday and that I even replied too.
I don't get the notification panel ... mail notifications are handled by outlook. It has several settings for it ...
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
a hollow green circle.
a circle with a dot in it? that's the location indicator. Somewhere an application tried or got your location information.
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@Luhmann said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
a circle with a dot in it? that's the location indicator. Somewhere an application tried or got your location information.
Hmm, every so often I do get a pop-up that some web site or other wants my location (um, nope), but I don't think that what this was. As best I can recall, when I found the icon in the hidden icons area, I right-clicked it and was presented with the choices, "reboot now," or "open [something about booting] window..." I'll pay more attention next time; I wasn't noting details because I just wanted to postpone the reboot before it decided to do it automatically.
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
No, that doesn't get hidden, but I rather wish it did; it seems to be mostly useless. It indicates unread (or undismissed; whatever) notifications in the Action Center, which would be useful, were in not for the fact that the only notifications that show up there are notifications for new mail, and which don't disappear even when I've read the mail.
I keep seeing "we'll reboot outside of working hours" notices there, but I'm, as I've said, on Insider Preview builds. Wait until August 2nd, and it should start working better for you.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
winver
shows the decimal point (e.g. 420) whereas justver
doesn't, it seems.E_NO_REPRO (because Windows 7?)
It was easier to edit out username from the image, than to type
cd\
cls
? Wow.
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@MrL said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@Tsaukpaetra said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
winver
shows the decimal point (e.g. 420) whereas justver
doesn't, it seems.E_NO_REPRO (because Windows 7?)
It was easier to edit out username from the image, than to type
cd\
cls
? Wow.Yeah!
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@accalia said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
it may be that microsoft backed down because they didn't want the judge to set a legal precident by determining that your quoted term was unenforceable
I think that's exactly why they settled. They didn't want to risk losing the battle and losing the war, and just conceded losing the battle anyways.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Regardless of what anyone here says, neither I nor anyone in my office have ever seen this supposed three-day warning of pending reboots. So don't even go there, because it doesn't actually exist.
It does, but it's reaaaaalllly easy to miss. So if you're not on your computer all the time and watching for notifications, you're gonna miss it.
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So, to be clear, who has, and who has never, seen this notification before?
I have this setting enabled:
And I'm on Windows 10 Pro. I have also seen above notification on mom's 10 Home and sister's 10 Pro too.Hopefully at the next major upgrade on August 2nd we will see a screencap of @HardwareGeek's cool system tray icon with a right click menu. I really wanna know if maybe it has to do with the different edition of Windows 10.
EDIT: Also, was your system a fresh install or an in-place upgrade?
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
So, to be clear, who has, and who has never, seen this notification before?
I saw that notification after every system start for about 6 weeks, but there were no restarts.
Then there were no notifications for 2 months, but there were restarts (two while I was working).
And now.. there's no windows update, no notifications and no restarts.
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@LB_ Thanks to corporate group policy settings:
http://i.imgur.com/lMwN9iw.png
And all my notifications are some kind of firewall spam about another setting I don't have control over.
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@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
So, to be clear, who has, and who has never, seen this notification before?
To be clear, I have never seen this notification before. However, this strengthens the likelihood that the "green circle" I saw in the system tray was a green-on-black (or green-on-transparent) version of the gear.
@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I have this setting enabled:
I have whatever was configured by IT before I ever saw the computer.
@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
screencap of @HardwareGeek's cool system tray icon
Pretty sure it's going to turn out to be the gear.
@LB_ said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
was your system a fresh install or an in-place upgrade?
New laptop with (I assume) OEM Win10, which the client nuked and paved with Win10 Enterprise before I got there.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And all my notifications are some kind of firewall spam about another setting I don't have control over
Every time I boot my 10 machine I get a notification about disabling startup programs to speed up boot. I can't seem to tell it not to bother me about them, even though it only takes a few seconds and all the things it warns about are things I want opening at startup, hence why they're in my startup items.
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@Jaloopa Perhaps you need to autostart an AutoIt script that waits for that notification to appear and then dismisses it.
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@Jaloopa There's a setting to disable that message either in Control Panel or Settings, I forget which. If you google the message, you should find it pretty quick.
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@Erufael yeah, I'm sure it is quite easy. I only reboot every few weeks and it's a single notification so I haven't bothered to look
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
In short, nag the Belgium shit out of me, and eventually I'll get annoyed enough to let you reboot...
Will you? Will most people?
It seems MS was doing exactly that and it obviously wasn't working.
People put off far more important things, like doctor's visits, mechanics, etc. as there's never a convenient time to do them.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
firewall spam
Can you not right-click on one of the notifications and and disable notifications for that app?
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My work laptop rebooted in its carrying bag some time between last evening and this evening. I never saw any warning, not even the little tray icon, and I've been watching specifically for it.
It could have been worse. I think the only unsaved work I had was a text file of some notes on my status and todos — not a great loss. But I will have to sort out the differences, if any, between "last saved," "autosaved" and "recovered" versions of Office documents.
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@FrostCat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Can you not right-click on one of the notifications and and disable notifications for that app?
Today I learned. It just didn't seem right-click-able. Thanks!
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@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
My work laptop rebooted in its carrying bag some time between last evening and this evening. I never saw any warning, not even the little tray icon, and I've been watching specifically for it.
Duh ... my work laptops have been doing that since they ran XP. Back in the day it might have been the thing overheating while downloading those updates and then rebooting to recover from the heat thing and promptly applying the updates.
@HardwareGeek said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
the only unsaved work
That is your own damn fault ... you never close your laptop and start walking around with it without saving files first.
Maybe use something that auto-saves to edit those text files? Or switch to a note taking app like OneNote, EverNote or whatever to keep to do/done lists.
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@Luhmann said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
That is your own damn fault ... you never close your laptop and start walking around with it without saving files first.
Thus speaks someone who has no experience of how a laptop ought to work. You've been so conditioned to brokenness that you're habitually taking steps to avoid even possibly losing work, even though it's actually probably unnecessary when laptops are actually function correctly.