Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks
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@FrostCat said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@El_Heffe n-key rollover is more or less a PS/2 standard feature, btw. The fact that you don't see it in USB is apparently because hardware makers are too lazy to write a device driver.
It's actually more complicated.
When Microsoft helped to author the USB input-device spec they made it so that each device would declare how many keys it would send. Problem is that back then the crusty BIOS would need to support USB keyboards for access to its setup tool but that code was ill-equipped to deal with all the complicated logic of setting up dynamically sized keyboard buffers.
Therefore a compromise was made: each keyboard needs to have a special mode in which it uses a fixed-size messaging protocol which BIOS software can then map to memory and poke at through fixed offsets. What happened next is just your typical thing with standards: some BIOS makers wouldn't completely follow the spec and ALWAYS expect the keyboard to work in this special mode without asking to switch to that mode. As a result keyboard makers were forced to stick to the standard 6 keys + modifiers protocol only because their keyboards would be incompatible with PCs.
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@JBert said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
each keyboard needs to have a special mode in which it uses a fixed-size messaging protocol which BIOS software can then map to memory and poke at through fixed offsets
FFS Is this why my keyboard works perfectly fine in DOS-mode but as soon as I plug it into anything that recognizes it and subsequently installs the Generic HID Device driver, several keys act like I'm pressing them and their neighbor?
Signs:
- DOS Mode: Everything is fine, A = A, S = S, Z = Z.
- Mac/Windows mode: A = AS, S = AS, Shift = Shift+Z, Z = Shift+Z (I'm only listing a representative sample, there are about ten key pairs that do this)
It all makes sense now!
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@mott555 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
I knew at the time would tell me Windows horror stories, but all those stories came to pass for me in Apple-land, not MS-land.
You have horror stories from Windows Mac and Linux.
The moral of your stories: you are cursed.
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@abarker said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
expecting the employees to finance their own hardware
Those are not employees, they are partners with no stake. Investors with no shares. CHUMPS.
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@FrostCat said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
hardware makers are
too lazy to writeincapable of writing a device driver.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
we dont' work in a mosh pit for the goddess's sake
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@JBert said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@FrostCat said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@El_Heffe n-key rollover is more or less a PS/2 standard feature, btw. The fact that you don't see it in USB is apparently because hardware makers are too lazy to write a device driver.
It's actually more complicated.
It is, a bit.
When Microsoft helped to author the USB input-device spec they made it so that each device would declare how many keys it would send. Problem is that back then the crusty BIOS would need to support USB keyboards for access to its setup tool but that code was ill-equipped to deal with all the complicated logic of setting up dynamically sized keyboard buffers.
Yeah, all USB keyboards are expected to start up in USB Boot Mode, which provides a maximum of 6 key rollover. Simply doing that allows your keyboard to work with any USB-compatible BIOS / EFI / Openboot / other firmware.
Once you're past the firmware, the OS is supposed to look through the USB gubbins and work out that the keyboard can actually do something a bit more complex, parse the descriptors for that, and tell the keyboard to do it.
It is very easy to make a keyboard that handles both USB Boot Mode (with 6 key rollover) and also provides full NKRO to HID stacks that ask for it. None of this should require any client side drivers beyond the standard USB HID stack. It's easy to do and works seamlessly, cross-platform, if you read the spec.
Here's a hint - if your keyboard requires any special drivers to make it work properly, somebody is in order to get around potentially broken operating systems, but is then breaking compatibility with non-broken operating systems.
The reason most keyboards, even souper-expendy "hacker" quality boards, don't provide NKRO is nothing to do with USB. It's to do with the manufacturers cheaping out and not wanting to put a diode under each key (which is pretty much required to get NKRO for mechanical switches)
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I went to the local computer superstore today. They had a full display of mechanical keyboards there.
I could not tell any significant difference between them and a good quality membrane keyboard. I think it is a lot of placebo effect.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
I think it is a lot of placebo effect.
No it's all those problems you don't know you have
(But yes)
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@Polygeekery I dunno, I've never had any problems with microUSB connectors or cables (using both smartphones and tablets), whereas every single Apple charge cord we've ever had always frayed and broke in the exact same place, as it has for other people I know. /shrug
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@Erufael said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
I've never had any problems with microUSB connectors or cables (using both smartphones and tablets)
Yeah, in my experience it's almost always the port/jack that dies, not the plug on the end of the cable.
Filed under: I should get magsafe MicroUSB chargers for the kids' devices..
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@Tsaukpaetra I've broken a few plugs, usually by rolling a heavy piece of furniture over them by accident.
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I was at best buy yesterday, and they had three gaming keyboards out: Blue switch razer, membrane Logitech, and red switch corsair. The blue was quieter than I remembered, the Logitech was annoying, and the corsair was awesome as always. Anyone could tell the difference, but my preference was only confirmed.
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@Magus said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
my preference was only confirmed.
Confirmation bias!! :-P
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Because jellypotato is not hardware enough
<aliceif>: hey amb <aliceif>: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EIYF96S?psc=1 <aliceif>: mechanical *feel* <aliceif>: also, the keys look just like the ones of my aukey, wtf <amberose>: YOU CAN'T <amberose>: NAME IT <amberose>: JELLY COMB <aliceif>: why not? <amberose>: AND MAKE ME HONESTLY THINK IT FEELS LIKE MECHANICAL KEYBOARDS <aliceif>: ahaha <rozark>: I bet it's actually squishy
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@aliceif I broke down and decided to try a cheap-(ish) keyboard myself.
I'm really hoping it feels better than this OMG horrible Microsoft Keyboard that apparently came with the machine:
^^ This shit isn't worth the $13 AT ALL. For the first time in my life I feel injured from typing.
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This keyboard is on sale now for $30 after rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16823201061
I'm using the same one now (except with the blue switches), and I'm really enjoying it. The wrist rest is a nice touch too.
I'm in an office now so less chance of annoying coworkers, but frankly I don't think it sounds all that loud.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600
Yeah, 600 looks misspelled. Should be 4000.