:fa_windows: That's Windows 7 for ya



  • "So you put me to sleep? Fuck that, I hibernated instead."

    "Oh by the way, I've fucked my hiberfil.sys, so if you had, by any chance, any work unsaved, fuck you."

    Not really unsaved, but a VM was running.

    "Want to do some work, right? Fuck you. I've got this real big bunch of updates. I'll reboot a couple of times as well."


  • :belt_onion:

    @wft said:

    "Want to do some work, right? Fuck you. I've got this real big bunch of updates. I'll reboot a couple of times as well."

    That's Windows 7 for ya



  • @wft said:

    "So you put me to sleep? Fuck that, I hibernated instead."

    In Windows 10 there's "so you want me to stay asleep/hibernated? Fuck that, I have important things to do in the middle of the night".



  • I think this was the case here, too.
    I'm not a windows power user, so can't say if it wakes up because updates.



  • I don't remember seeing that happen in Win7. Win8 introduced some scheduled tasks that come with 'wake computer up to run this shit' set by default, but that was fairly easily fixable. Could be misremembering though, maybe they were there in 7, too.

    Win10 completely fucked up wake timers and now if I have Spotify or VirtualBox running it just won't stay hibernated no matter what (plus the stupid scheduled tasks). And sometimes it wakes up even if those aren't running and there's no pending restart and I don't even know what else could be doing this. Ughh.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @CatPlusPlus said:

    And sometimes it wakes up even if those aren't running and there's no pending restart and I don't even know what else could be doing this. Ughh.



  • Hm, maybe the last unknown one was the mouse (I replaced it recently and forgot I have to change that setting, too, yeeey), but I'm fairly sure it requires a button press, not just move, and that's not very likely to happen on its own. The only other device allowed to wake is the keyboard and that's fine.

    Either way it's still a problem. I disabled wake timers in power settings. I check powercfg -lastwake every time it happens and it never has any useful information. I check Get-ScheduledTask | Where-Object { $_.Settings.WakeToRun } and disable anything that might crop up. I still have to remember to shut down any programs known to register wake timers, because why would any of this help.



  • @Onyx said:

    @wft said:
    "Want to do some work, right? Fuck you. I've got this real big bunch of updates. I'll reboot a couple of times as well."

    That's Windows 7 for ya

    10 is much better than 7 at not going "Hi, we're going to install updates and reboot for half an hour now" on you when you least expect it. Sure, 10 wants to reboot at 'a silent moment', but I tend to shut down the PC anyway. 7 wanted to reboot half an hour after it was done booting up, because that's when the download+install had finished. And it didn't take well to that being postponed.



  • Why do you post a Linux blog full of fuckin CLI incantations to fix problems with Windows ?

    Oh wait... :rolleyes:


  • :belt_onion:

    I was more talking about: "hey, I need to turn this laptop off and go NOW!" only to be greeted by "installing updates, do not turn off your machine, put it in a bag where it will overheat, or remove from charger while your battery is low".


    Filed under: 504 OK, 504 OK



  • Ah, yes. My only windows is my gaming desktop.



  • @CatPlusPlus said:

    In Windows 10 there's "so you want me to stay asleep/hibernated? Fuck that, I have important things to do in the middle of the night".

    Yeah, that's awesome when it's in the same room with you and you're trying to sleep and it keeps turning itself back on and it's 4am and you have to look up how to make it stop. Just do what I say!

    Although this Windows 7 machine I was issued for work likes to wake back up while in my backpack on the way home so when I get there and pull it out the inside of the backpack is like an oven. Just do what I say!


  • sockdevs

    @Bort said:

    Yeah, that's awesome when it's in the same room with you and you're trying to sleep and it keeps turning itself back on and it's 4am and you have to look up how to make it stop. Just do what I say!

    I'm on the wrong machine to get a screenshot, but you can configure a set time to apply updates



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I'm on the wrong machine to get a screenshot, but you can configure a set time to apply updates

    I know because I looked it up that night at 4am.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @TimeBandit said:

    Why do you post a Linux blog full of fuckin CLI incantations to fix problems with Windows ?

    Yeah, it's a shitty unusable part of Windows that makes no sense. I can see why you'd confuse it with Linux



  • The part that made me realize it was not Linux is

    How is this different from unchecking Allow this device to wake the computer from the device properties in Device Manager? Beats me.

    And this

    This may not solve your problem, but at least’s something you can try

    Yep, that's Windows alright, no logical behavior


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @TimeBandit said:

    Beats me.

    @TimeBandit said:

    This may not solve your problem

    @TimeBandit said:

    you can try

    Yeah, couldn't be a Linux user. They're not exactly famous for admitting not knowing things or that there might be something in their OS that needs improvement



  • @wft said:

    "So you put me to sleep? Fuck that, I hibernated instead."

    Vista did that too. And I think it was an option in XP, but I no longer remember for sure. It's called "Hybrid Sleep", your computer decides whether to sleep or hibernate based on the amount of battery remaining.

    @wft said:

    "Oh by the way, I've fucked my hiberfil.sys, so if you had, by any chance, any work unsaved, fuck you."

    Hardware fault.

    @CatPlusPlus said:

    In Windows 10 there's "so you want me to stay asleep/hibernated? Fuck that, I have important things to do in the middle of the night".

    What I find funny is the people who bitch that this wakes them up. How fucking light a sleeper are you? And/or, how fucking LOUD is your computer? Jesus.

    @Onyx said:

    I was more talking about: "hey, I need to turn this laptop off and go NOW!" only to be greeted by "installing updates, do not turn off your machine, put it in a bag where it will overheat, or remove from charger while your battery is low".

    So just close the lid without shutting it down. You haven't needed to shut down a laptop to transport it in how many decades?


  • sockdevs

    @TimeBandit said:

    Yep, that's Windows alright, no logical behavior

    Pray tell, what sense does putting lots of important system stuff under /etc make?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    More than having non-user related stuff in /usr


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @wft said:

    "Want to do some work, rightNeed to be on a webinar in 3 minutes? Fuck you. I've got this real big bunch of updates. I'll reboot a couple of times as well."

    FTFM


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    Hardware fault.

    Windows has never done anything wrong in your world, has it?



  • All the time.

    But corruption of the hibernation file? Nah. That's disk or memory corruption. Possibly a bad driver. I don't believe Windows would do that in a million years.


  • :belt_onion:

    @Jaloopa said:

    having non-user related stuff in /usr

    It is "Unix System Resources", and has nothing to do with "User"

    @Polygeekery said:

    Windows has never done anything wrong in your world, has it?

    Other than killing Mac Classic with thread-unsafe ref counting.

    mac_classic_fanboy--
    win32_fanboy++


  • By "lots of important stuff" you mean system-wide configuration files.

    It is by convention. You can read about here here

    What does that have to do with logical behavior ?


  • sockdevs

    @dse said:

    It is "Unix System Resources", and has nothing to do with "User"

    Then why not call it /sys?



  • A lot more than having 64-bit DLL in system32 while the 32-bit are in WOW64


  • sockdevs

    @TimeBandit said:

    A lot more than having 64-bit DLL in system32 while the 32-bit are in WOW64

    Which wouldn't have been required if it wasn't for 20 years of total retards hardcoding C:\WINDOWS\system32\ in their programs


  • :belt_onion:

    Why not /system? If you are designing your own new OS please do not save on key strokes, Tab completion is magic.


  • sockdevs

    But when the structure of Unix was being decided, tab-completion wasn't a thing, and /sys would have made more sense; that was the context I was thinking in. But yeah, if you're doing it today, /system is the way to go.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Which wouldn't have been required if it wasn't for 20 years of total retards hardcoding C:\WINDOWS\system32\ in their programs

    Still a fuckin dumb design, since (from Wikipedia) :

    when executing 32-bit applications, WoW64 transparently redirects 32-bit DLLs to %SystemRoot%\SysWoW64, which contains 32-bit libraries and executables. 32-bit applications are generally not aware that they are running on a 64-bit operating system. 32-bit applications can access %SystemRoot%\System32 through the pseudo directory %SystemRoot%\sysnative.

    Why not just add a system64 and let the 32-bit apps access system32 while the new 64-bit apps could access system64 ?


  • sockdevs

    @TimeBandit said:

    Still a fuckin dumb design

    Agreed, but necessary.

    @TimeBandit said:

    Why not just add a system64 and let the 32-bit apps access system32 while the new 64-bit apps could access system64?

    Because there will always be utter morons who insist on hardcoding C:\WINDOWS\system32, even on 64-bit systems. It's the same reason why, starting with Windows 7, Windows masks the real drive letter it's installed on and pretends it's really C:\.


  • :belt_onion:

    They could do the hack only for those morons, like a Run this in a moronic environment menu option similar to Run this in XP mode.


  • sockdevs

    IIRC, they did explore that option, but they found it was actually better to implement the current solution. It's also why there's Program Files and Program Files (x86) instead of Program Files and Program Files (x64).

    At the end of the day, it all comes down to backwards-compatibility.



  • In some Linux distribution, /sys contains a sysfs virtual filesystem



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Because there will always be utter morons who insist on hardcoding C:\WINDOWS\system32, even on 64-bit systems.

    Why not do the transparently redirects to system64 for those utter morons then ?



  • @wft said:

    "Want to do some work, right? Fuck you. I've got this real big bunch of updates. I'll reboot a couple of times as well."

    Windows 7 can still be configured to download and install updates on demand. What you're describing is either Windows 10, or Windows 7 man-handled by retarded system administrators that don't know how to configure updates to deploy after-hours.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Why not just add a system64 and let the 32-bit apps access system32 while the new 64-bit apps could access system64 ?

    Because the path is hard-coded as system32. Did you miss that part?

    @dse said:

    They could do the hack only for those morons, like a Run this in a moronic environment menu option similar to Run this in XP mode.

    Except those morons will instead simply advise their company to not upgrade their OS, then Microsoft's supporting Windows XP long into the 23rd century.


  • :belt_onion:

    @blakeyrat said:

    those morons will instead simply advise their company to not upgrade their OS

    Not morons then. Windows for work is getting shittier with each release. Windows XP was fine (shitty security yes), Windows 8 (well forget about that joke), Windows 7 is shitty XP and 10 is too reboot-happy to be usable in real world.

    Certainly better than Linux, INB4 you do the comparison.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Because the path is hard-coded as system32. Did you miss that part?

    They had to at least re-compile their program when they made it 64. Odds are that they wouldn't ship it if it never even started up. It's not like 64-bit Windows programs existed before 64-bit Windows.

    If they're the sort to hard code system32, they probably also had lots of 32-bits assumptions in their code and it didn't work recompiled as a 64-bit executable without a lot of other work. So backwards compatibility seems like a retarted<!-- yeah, you heard me --> reason in this case.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    Because the path is hard-coded as system32. Did you miss that part?

    They had to at least re-compile their program when they made it 64. Odds are that they wouldn't ship it if it never even started up.

    You vastly overestimate many software shops.


    Filed under: It compiles! Ship it!



  • @Dragnslcr said:

    You vastly overestimate many software shops.

    Well, they're targeting Windows so they deserve what they get. :tropical_fish:



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Because the path is hard-coded as system32. Did you miss that part?

    Did you miss that part ?

    when executing 32-bit applications, WoW64 transparently redirects 32-bit DLLs to %SystemRoot%\SysWoW64, which contains 32-bit libraries and executables. 32-bit applications are generally not aware that they are running on a 64-bit operating system. 32-bit applications can access %SystemRoot%\System32 through the pseudo directory %SystemRoot%\sysnative.

    They already do a redirect to WoW64 for 32 bits apps, why not do the other way around instead ?

    Oh, right. Because whatever stupid thing Microsoft does, you'll keep defending it while ignoring every proof right in front of you. That's why :rolleyes:


  • sockdevs

    I do find it amusing those who think they know better than a multi-billion-dollar multi-national software company and their hundreds of thousands of developers, analysts, and designers, especially about matters that would have had millions of dollars invested in investigating.



  • Nice arguments.

    I wonder how much money they spent investigating the wonderful success story of Metro/Modern, or the huge success of the iPod killer, a.k.a. Zune, or Windows Phone, or every other failed project they did.

    Money always make you right, it seems.



  • Like using long instead of size_t?


  • sockdevs

    So because some things failed, everything MS do is automatically shit? That's not reason, that's fanaticism, bordering on hatred. Yes, Zune was a disaster, and Windows Phone has hardly set the world alight. But MS are obviously doing something right; the Xbox line has been very successful, and Microsoft pretty much owns corporate IT. And they're not exactly lacking when it comes to web servers and the cloud. Also, let's not forget that Windows is the de facto PC gaming platform.

    Are they perfect? Of course not. But they're a long way from being a company of incompetents, which you'd see if you pulled your attitudes out of 1997 and into 2016.


  • mod

    @PleegWat said:

    10 is much better than 7 at not going "Hi, we're going to install updates and reboot for half an hour now" on you when you least expect it. Sure, 10 wants to reboot at 'a silent moment', but I tend to shut down the PC anyway. 7 wanted to reboot half an hour after it was done booting up, because that's when the download+install had finished. And it didn't take well to that being postponed.

    That's why you don't turn on automatic install in Windows 7. Any sane personal configuration is set to "Download and alert me".


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @RaceProUK said:

    I do find it amusing those who think they know better than a multi-billion-dollar multi-national software company and their hundreds of thousands of developers, analysts, and designers, especially about matters that would have had millions of dollars invested in investigating.

    @RaceProUK said:

    So because some things failedthey spend a lot of money and have lots of developers, everything MS do is automatically shitthe bestest idea in the whole wide world? That's not reason, that's fanaticism, bordering on hatreddelusion.

    FTFM



  • @RaceProUK said:

    So because some things failed, everything MS do is automatically shit?

    When did I said that ?

    I just pointed to a dumb decision with facts, and you answered with "well, they are a multi-million company so they know better".

    Just pull your head out of MS's ass and use your brain


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