Firefox, again
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
You know what really bugs me about Firefox?
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process!
How long will it take for Firefox to finally knock-off the one truly useful thing from Chrome instead of wasting time copying its UI stupidities?
I was under the impression that this feature was a bit controversial (and as such, might end up as another misfeature ripped off Chrome). Answers to your post did nothing to dispel this impression.
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
You know what really bugs me about Firefox?
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process!
How long will it take for Firefox to finally knock-off the one truly useful thing from Chrome instead of wasting time copying its UI stupidities?
I was under the impression that this feature was a bit controversial (and as such, might end up as another misfeature ripped off Chrome). Answers to your post did nothing to dispel this impression.
Main disadvantage is having to kill multiple
chrome.exe
s, but I believetaskkill /IM "chrome.exe" /t
works around this. However, I haven't had to kill a browser using task manager for about three years, so it's almost irrelevant. Honestly, tab separation wouldn't really be needed as long as a browser implements some kind of sanity check for a tab's memory usage (e.g. if a tab is exceeding 2 or 3 GB of memory and is still ballooning, it should prompt the user to see if it's acceptable).
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@Sumireko IIRC, if you want to kill them all, you only need to kill the parent process, and it'll take its children with it.
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@LB_ said in Firefox, again:
@julianlam spent a long time fixing it so that when images load it tries to autoscroll as if nothing happened.
It seems to cause more so he needs to spend longer. Or not have the stupid "load images later" shit.
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@RaceProUK When it's behaving correctly, but you're rarely killing a browser because it's behaving correctly.
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@Sumireko said in Firefox, again:
some kind of sanity check for a tab's memory usage
By far the easiest way to do this is using processes. Tracking memory allocated to a tab (or, more generally, any complex task) when you've potentially got multiple threads working within the tab is distinctly difficult, especially if you don't want to add vast amounts of management metadata overhead.
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They are planning another redesign.
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Why is the visual refresh even necessary? In my user-perspective the Australis look just stabilized like yesterday when 734326 got fixed. Seems like bikeshedding to me.
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http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/photon-firefox-57-3-4.png
This menu looks just like the catch-all "Firefox button" menu that was rightfully scrapped. I as a user know where to find the functions I use, sometimes it's pressing Alt and accessing the old menu bar, sometimes it's the hamburger menu, but I'll never have the incentive to learn a completely new menu that has everything dumped in it. -
I use alternative search engines ALL THE TIME. Wikipedia, Wikipedia Hungary, Google Translate, Google Drive Viewer, SZTAKI dictionary, Wolfram Alpha. Don't take my search bar away. I've just accommodated to its recent unnecessary redesign and the associated keyboard shortcut changes. It feels like it was literally yesterday.
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Then when I posted this on Bugzilla, I got a reply saying
Sorry, this is a tracking bug and not a discussion platform. Please take that concern to an appropriate mailing list or user forum. Note that a significant chunk of the people involved in this are Firefox peers, so it's unlikely your arguments will be able to stop the project. We do, however, appreciate ideas and constructive feedback (but please not in this specific bug).
Which is all fair, but no mention of where I could find the appropriate mailing list or user forum. It seems like the developers couldn't care less about whether those even exist. Does the appropriate platform for Firefox feature discussion exist? Is Firefox an open-source product serving the needs of some users, or is it completely intent on driving them all away? Surveying other bugs it seems like this is standard practice on bugzilla, sending people away to "lists or forums" without anyone even replying to the question of "and those are found where exactly?"
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Then I go looking for the mentioned user forum and find these two threads, which both attempt to be a thread about Photon and both get abruptly closed, redirecting to this thread, which has a title referring to "Old Firefox Extensions" which is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Photon redesign. 13 pages, and I had to open all 13 in tabs to search for the word "photon". I wanted to discuss Photon and it seems like everyone is hell-bent on preventing me doing that.
Firefox.
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@marczellm - I can't say I care about this UI redesign one way or the other - the actual issue is that they're going to simultaneously disable the ability for extensions to modify the UI and this will pretty much remove the only reason most people even bother with firefox these days.
Without this ability, firefox is literally a worse version of chrome.I'm going to initially stay on FireFox 56 and then switch to some alternative (most are still pretty bad, though...).
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@CreatedToDislikeThis said in Firefox, again:
firefox is literally a worse version of chrome.
Basically.
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@CreatedToDislikeThis said in Firefox, again:
I'm going to initially stay on FireFox 56 and then switch to some alternative
Lemme know if you find something better. I could just pull a Lorne and not update, though. Of course, old software will remain vulnerable to old bugs, and I won't be able to use new features like web USB and web Bluetooth...maybe using the old version is the safest choice
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@marczellm said in Firefox, again:
Why is the visual refresh even necessary? In my user-perspective the Australis look just stabilized like yesterday when 734326 got fixed. Seems like bikeshedding to me.
For the same reason Asscancer got put into Firefox in the first place: there are CEOs being paid a lot of money for doing nothing, and they have to justify that salary somehow by "doing something".
Why does an open source project need multiple 6-7 figure CEOs? THAT IS A MUCH BETTER QUESTION.
mailing list
Nothing says "we care about our users" like telling them to try to subscribe to and use a discussion platform that went out of style with BBSes. Of course, I bet I know what happens if you try to have an actual discussion on any Mozilla platform...
Then I go looking for the mentioned user forum and find these two threads, which both attempt to be a thread about Photon and both get abruptly closed
Yuuuup.
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@CreatedToDislikeThis said in Firefox, again:
I'm going to initially stay on FireFox 56 and then switch to some alternative (most are still pretty bad, though...).
.... dude, come on.
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Firefox users who don't want to use the Activity Stream tab page can install WebExtensions that modify the New Tab Page of the web browser.
The customize screen looks pretty much the same as before. One change is that you cannot add or remove items from the main menu anymore as it is locked.
@WHARRGARBL!!!
@marczellm said in Firefox, again:
Don't take my search bar away.
The article says:
Firefox users who use the search will notice that the search element is listed on the customize page. This is an indicator that it will be still an option when Firefox 57 launches.
For how long it will be available is anyone's guess.
Also, they've moved the sidebar to the right because . . . ?
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@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
Nothing says "we care about our users" like telling them to try to subscribe to and use a discussion platform that went out of style with BBSes. Of course, I bet I know what happens if you try to have an actual discussion on any Mozilla platform...
The single most interesting thing is that they've not get migrated to as it seems like they'd be a good fit, culturally.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
Yuuuup.
And my attempt at posting these same 5 gripes on the user forum did not get moderator approval.
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This post is deleted!
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@marczellm said in Firefox, again:
Don't take my search bar away
Presumably it lets you add custom search engines to the
addressALLTHETHINGS bar like Chrome does?
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It does.
But it's work. I've wasted 10 seconds creating this custom bookmark because this...
...didn't quite work:
And I had to fix the URL:
Nice description btw :)
Edit: TRWTF is it doesn't let you change the URL while you're creating the search bookmark.
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@marczellm said in Firefox, again:
@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
Yuuuup.
And my attempt at posting these same 5 gripes on the user forum did not get moderator approval.
Sounds like you're about a half-step away from
E_NOT_WELCOME_HERE
banning...
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Do you people think that it would be possible to keep a non supported Firefox installed in order to use the few XUL addons I use, which I need maybe twice a year (downThemAll), and also have current Firefox installed alongside for everyday browsing?
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Also is there absolutely no way to see which of my addons will stop working?
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@marczellm Firefox Portable is your friend. I keep one in my JMeter folder that's set up to use JMeter as a proxy for when I want to record some HTTP traffic for a load test.
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@Yamikuronue said in Firefox, again:
@marczellm Firefox Portable is your friend. I keep one in my JMeter folder that's set up to use JMeter as a proxy for when I want to record some HTTP traffic for a load test.
You can do that with one copy of Firefox if you use profiles.
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@marczellm You can use
install-all-firefox
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I'm still upset about Firefox Photon. Even though I like that this feature
will finally be added and I can switch off the Firefox titlebar on Windows 10 and still have a visual clue whether the window is active or not.
But I hate the fact that the hamburger menu - which currently contains only like 3 or 4 things that I ACTUALLY USE - will become non-customizable and contain shitloads of unnecessary shit, most of which I either never use or invoke by a shortcut.
Also, do you think that their approach of emulating the accent colored extended window borders instead of drawing on the one Windows provides is fragile?
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@marczellm 🔥 the 🔥🦊 💩 and install chrome
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I'm still on FF for 2 reasons:
- tree style tabs: the chrome add-ons just create a separate popup window that contains the tab list, so to switch into a tab from there I need to click in the window to focus it, then actually click on the tab I want.
- mouse gestures: the gesture add-ons don't work on chrome:// urls (so no gestures from e.g. history, new tab, downloads pages), plus the context menu always seems to appear . It seems really janky.
Does anyone have any chrome add-ons like these that aren't as janky?
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@bb36e I do not even know what those features are.
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@bb36e You could always try Sleipnir.
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@magus sleipnir is still limited to using webextensions, right?
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Atm I'm using both and side-by-side, as I am still undecided on which of them I prefer. are trying their best to force me into switching by making a -exclusive webapp. I'm not impressed. Also, the -devs have the brainworms which makes me wary of them. (And as I also use , and are not valid options. :P )
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@bb36e I don't know, I haven't really tried, but it does have some really weird gestures built in. And as an added bonus, they no longer have an english section on their website!
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@magus said in Firefox, again:
And as an added bonus, they no longer have an english section on their website!
Practically speaking, they never had an English section on their site. They had a section which had randomly-selected English words placed in a random order
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@bb36e But the beautiful advanced text is on par with pro level!
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@dse said in Firefox, again:
@marczellm 🔥 the 🔥🦊 💩 and install chrome
I kinda like these experiments of 'how long can I keep this stuff working'.
I mean, if market share drops below a certain level, I sort of expect Google to declare it as a non supported browser on all of its services - Gmail, Youtube, Docs, Maps etc. So I'm staying on the only truly free browser till the end. Cuehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPP0sfMgYsA
In 1956 when our revolution against the Communist government was defeated, lots of people moved to Western Europe or the USA before the borders were closed again. A saying became popular: "those who were adventurous stayed at home". Random association, sorry.
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@atazhaia said in Firefox, again:
And
as I also use , and are not valid options. :PFTFY. and are never valid options.
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@anotherusername said in Firefox, again:
@atazhaia said in Firefox, again:
And
as I also use , and are not valid options. :PFTFY. and are never valid options.
i dunno. edge is at least better than IE.
i mean i'd rather use edge to download chrome than IE
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@createdtodislikethis said in Firefox, again:
extensions to modify the UI and this will pretty much remove the only reason most people even bother with firefox these days.
People keep saying this, meanwhile I keep using Firefox because I hate the shape of chrome's tab tabs.
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@lb_ said in Firefox, again:
Tabs within tabs?
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@bb36e that's creepy.
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@lb_ the tab at the top of each tab that you can use to tab to the tab.
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I tried Quantum and honestly I'm kinda impressed. I expected a shitty Chrome knockoff, but it's really damn fast (they say it's twice as fast but it's more like infinity, pages that made FF =<56 hang for minutes load in less than 5s). I haven't discovered any bugs so far other than the bookmarks bar looking kinda weird. The interface is alright, and most importantly, there are actually Quantum-compatible tree style tabs addons (at least two), which is one of the most important things in a browser for me. It requires some extra configuration, because normally there's no way to hide the horizontal tab bar so you get two sets of tabs and it's distracting as hell when you change/open/close tabs - it's like the whole screen starts moving around - but there's a way to get rid of it with some CSS in the profile.
No Classic Theme Restorer, but I don't really care about that too much. I also really want to get away from Vivaldi, especially now that it's suddenly developed this bug on my work laptop that throws away SAML responses so I can't log in to half of our work systems... so I think I'll switch back when Quantum officially comes out and hope I don't get cancer from prolonged exposure or something. (There's no way Mozilla didn't fuck something up, so if I can't see any severe bugs or insane interface design, I'm forced to conclude it probably makes your display emit ionizing radiation.)
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@blek said in Firefox, again:
the bookmarks bar looking kinda weird.
In Australis, it kept looking weird for 5 years. When it got fixed they were already working on Quantum I think.
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@blek said in Firefox, again:
There's no way Mozilla didn't fuck something up
Quantum is written in Rust. They have to get it right or it won't compile.
On a more serious note. About a month ago, my Opera started acting strange (couldn't scroll pages sometimes), so I moved to Firefox Quantum beta. No problems so far. My only gripe is that there's no setting in UI for not closing window after closing last tab, so had to use about:config.
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@gąska said in Firefox, again:
Quantum is written in Rust. They have to get it right or it won't compile.
Feature request for Rust: compiler refuses to compile code that does not do exactly what the programmer wants.
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@ben_lubar said in Firefox, again:
@gąska said in Firefox, again:
Quantum is written in Rust. They have to get it right or it won't compile.
Feature request for Rust: compiler refuses to compile code that does not do exactly what the programmer wants.
Feature request for Rust: compiler ever compiles code that does exactly what the programmer wants.