The <kbd> appreciation thread
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I don't understand why you would want a keyboard without markings on the keys. Even if you're a proficient touch typist to the extent where it's no disadvantage, what possible advantage does it have?
I am indeed a proficient enough touch typist that no markings on the keys have no disadvantage for me.
The only one I can think of is bragging rights, which is a pretty shitty reason to buy a less usable keyboard
It's not less useable for me, it's exactly as usable as a keyboard with markings1. Shitty reason denied.
Part of it was indeed because I think it looks cool. As stated above, that's the keyboard I use at home, so I'm not keyboard-shaming any colleagues and friends.
The only living being that sees that keyboard on a daily basis is my cat and he doesn't seem humiliated by it. Maybe that's because he's a cat and they tend to be quite apathetic to everything that does not concern them directly.The keyboard without markings cost exactly as much as the same model with markings, so there was no monetary disincentive to go for a markless keyboard either.
TR;DR: although there are no net advantages, there are no net disadvantages for me either. I picked the keycap-less one because I think it looks cool/pretty/matches my furniture.
1 A keyboard with markings might arguably be disadvantageous for me... I type Dvorak, so QWERTY markings don't match the letters that appear on my screen anyway (except for a few keys). Not being tempted to look at the keyboard is a small advantage.Well, technically, with no letters, you will never get to the stage where the keyboard looks unsightly because some of them are wearing off.
The markings on the Das Keyboard are laser engraved IIRC instead of printed on the keys, so they don't wear off.
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Even if you're a proficient touch typist to the extent where it's no disadvantage, what possible advantage does it have?
If you switch keyboard layouts often because you work in multiple languages, there's never a mismatch between what the keys say and what they do. I guess? Better than just e-peen, but still not a good reason, IMHO.
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If you switch keyboard layouts often because you work in multiple languages, there's never a mismatch between what the keys say and what they do.
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The markings on the Das Keyboard are laser engraved IIRC instead of printed on the keys, so they don't wear off.
Yes, I know. Some keys have colored dye injected into the keycaps, instead, instead of being a sticker, for the same reason.
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I don't understand why you would want a keyboard without markings on the keys. Even if you're a proficient touch typist to the extent where it's no disadvantage, what possible advantage does it have?
You can
liebrag that you use Dvorak... but really use QWERTY.
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If you switch keyboard layouts often because you work in multiple languages, there's never a mismatch between what the keys say and what they do. I guess? Better than just e-peen, but still not a good reason, IMHO.
I use a Compose key, I can get all kinds of funny accented characters out of my keyboard in a layout independent manner
As stated above: I chose the keycap-less keyboard becase it has no disadvantage (for me) and because I like the way it looks.
I didn't expect the E-Peen Inquisition!
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I didn't expect the E-Peen Inquisition!
No-one expects the E-Peen Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise! Surprise and embarrassment. Our chief weapons are embarrassment and surprise, and a ruth--ah, never mind.
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http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/popularis/
Cool, but it doesn't look like it would be very comfortable to type on, and it's very expensive.
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And it lacks the edit block which is a giant insta-dealbreaker.
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@OffByOne said:
I didn't expect the E-Peen Inquisition!
No-one expects the E-Peen Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise! Surprise and embarrassment. Our chief weapons are embarrassment and surprise, and a
ruth--ah, never mindMogen clamp.
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@aliceif said:
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/popularis/
Cool, but it doesn't look like it would be very comfortable to type on, and it's very expensive.
They have a "visualizator" on staff for that keyboard. You can't expect that to be cheap, now can you?
And it lacks the edit block which is a giant insta-dealbreaker.
You're looking for the http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/maximus/.
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You're looking for the http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/maximus/.
That's sold out, though ...
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@OffByOne said:
You're looking for the http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/maximus/.
That's sold out, though ...
I didn't spot that at first.
There is also no pricing information listed. Considering that its "little brother" the popularis costs $1500, I'd rather not think about how much the maximus would cost...
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I chose the keycap-less keyboard because it has no disadvantage (for me)
Not being able to do "Hey could you check something on my machine?" to someone that doesn't know your keyboard layout is going to be a disadvantage. As is having to say "yes, but..." when someone asks to borrow it.
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Well, technically, with no letters, you will never get to the stage where the keyboard looks unsightly because some of them are wearing off.
That can be resolved with laser etched keys. Or keys with back-lit letters.
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@OffByOne said:
I chose the keycap-less keyboard because it has no disadvantage (for me)
Not being able to do "Hey could you check something on my machine?" to someone that doesn't know your keyboard layout is going to be a disadvantage.
The keyboard without markings is at home. There is no one there who would have to use my keyboard and could get blocked by the lack of markings.
If you're talking about work (where I have a QWERTY-marked keyboard but with a Dvorak layout configured), that's not a problem either.
In
/etc/default/keyboard
(Ubuntu, YDMV):XKBLAYOUT="us,us" XKBVARIANT="dvorak-alt-intl," XKBOPTIONS="grp:shifts_toggle"
When I tap both Shift keys at the same time, the keyboard layout toggles between Dvorak and US QWERTY. My colleagues can touch type or hunt and peck and out come the letters they expect.
Another Shift+Shift when I have control of the keyboard again and I can continue with Dvorak.As is having to say "yes, but..." when someone asks to borrow it.
I don't understand what you mean. If someone would ask me to borrow my keyboard, I'd just point them to the IT storage closet where there is a pile of unused keyboards, both QWERTY and AZERTY1.
If that's not what you mean, then please explain again using small words
1 The de-facto standard layout in Belgium. Luckily most IT guys use QWERTY.
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@FrostCat said:
Well, technically, with no letters, you will never get to the stage where the keyboard looks unsightly because some of them are wearing off.
That can be resolved with laser etched keys. Or keys with back-lit letters.
or by wearing silk gloves when you use a keyboard. Top-hat and monocle optional.
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where I have a QWERTY-marked keyboard but with a Dvorak layout configured
Why not swap your keys then? Or just use Qwerty at work and Dvorak at home (what I do).
If that's not what you mean, then please explain again using small words
"Can I use your machine?" EDIT: in your case flip layouts to match what is printed on your keys before letting them, but some dvorak keyboards don't need software to do that layout, they do the translation between dvorak and qwerty for you.
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@OffByOne said:
where I have a QWERTY-marked keyboard but with a Dvorak layout configured
Why not swap your keys then? Or just use Qwerty at work and Dvorak at home (what I do).
What's the use? I don't look at my keyboard at all when typing. It would also inconvenience my colleagues when I ask them to come over to look at something and they want to type stuff, because all of a sudden what is printed on the keys doesn't match what appears on the screen.
@OffByOne said:
If that's not what you mean, then please explain again using small words
"Can I use your machine?"
<colleague> Can I use your machine?
<OffByOne> Sure
* OffByOne taps Shift+Shift
<OffByOne> Here ya go
EDIT to comment on your edit: @locallunatic said:in your case flip layouts to match what is printed on your keys before letting them, but some dvorak keyboards don't need software to do that layout, they do the translation between dvorak and qwerty for you.
Heh, interesting, never heard of that (but then again, I never did much research into that functionality, because I never needed it).
I let my computer (more to the point: my X server) handle the mapping from keyboard scancodes to characters that appear on the screen.
How does that hardware translation work? A keyboard doesn't send "letter A has been pressed", but "second key on the third row has been pressed", right? Does such a hardware translation "rewire" all the keys?
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because all of a sudden what is printed on the keys doesn't match what appears on the screen.
How does moving the keys to match mean that they don't match? One of us missed something there.
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Does such a hardware translation "rewire" all the keys?
Yep. That way you don't need the layouts set up on whatever you plug it into, it just works.
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@OffByOne said:
because all of a sudden what is printed on the keys doesn't match what appears on the screen.
How does moving the keys to match mean that they don't match? One of us missed something there.
I guess I am. I pictured it as follows: I rearrange the physical keys on my keyboard so they match a Dvorak layout. A colleague needs to type something on my keyboard, so I break out my trusty keypuller, swap keys around so they match a QWERTY layout and do my Shift+Shift thingie.
If the key markings don't match what letters come out, my colleagues will be severely inconveniencedI'd have to do the reverse when I'm taking control again, so the physical markings match the configured layout again.
Or... I can just use a keyboard with QWERTY markings, not give a fuck about those markings when I use my keyboard and have a convenient way to allow my colleagues to type QWERTY
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@OffByOne said:
Does such a hardware translation "rewire" all the keys?
Yep. That way you don't need the layouts set up on whatever you plug it into, it just works.
Cool.
If my keyboard had such a feature, I'd probably use it. The problem with markings on the keyboard not matching which letters appear on the screen would still exist for one of the layouts though.
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I guess I am. I pictured it as follows:
Ah OK, I meant:
I rearrange the physical keys on my keyboard so they match a Dvorak layout.
Yes.A colleague needs to type something on my keyboard, so I break out my trusty keypuller, swap keys around so they match a QWERTY layout and do my Shift+Shift thingie.
No. Don't do your shift+shift thing when handing over (and obviously don't use the keypuller). That way your Dvorak layout matches the keyboard.
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@OffByOne said:
A colleague needs to type something on my keyboard, so I break out my trusty keypuller, swap keys around so they match a QWERTY layout and do my Shift+Shift thingie.
No. Don't do your shift+shift thing when handing over (and obviously don't use the keypuller). That way your Dvorak layout matches the keyboard.... and then my colleague who can touch-type QWERTY needs to fall back to hunt and peck. It would work, but it would be quite inconvenient for them.
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@OffByOne said:
I rearrange the physical keys on my keyboard so they match a Dvorak layout.
Yes.That would be suboptimal in another way too: the little bumps on the F and J keys to mark where your index fingers should rest would be in the wrong place.
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Not an issue if you are a hunt-n-pecker
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But even huntin' and peckin' builds muscle memory, right?
When I observe a hunt-n-pecker typing and they want to press P, they know to look at the right side of the alphanumeric block instead of scanning the keyboard from the left.
On a Dvorak keyboard the P is where the R key is on QWERTY, so they would be crawling and pecking instead ;)
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the little bumps on the F and J keys to mark where your index fingers should rest would be in the wrong place.
Actually, on cheaper keyboards the hooks for those two are often a little different so they don't move properly (meaning you get four keys off of what is true Dvorak). But really I'm just quibbling with you so, meh.
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Have they really not made any products like this prototype? http://www.yankodesign.com/2013/01/29/best-keyboard-ever/
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@OffByOne said:
the little bumps on the F and J keys to mark where your index fingers should rest would be in the wrong place.
Actually, on cheaper keyboards the hooks for those two are often a little different so they don't move properly (meaning you get four keys off of what is true Dvorak). But really I'm just quibbling with you so, meh.
:P Maybe we should convince one of the mods to do their job and Jeff our keyboard discussion to a separate thread.
My Das Keyboards don't qualify as "cheaper keyboards". I have no idea whether the F and J keys have different hooks than those of the other keys. In fact, I never took off the key caps.
Judging by the amount of gunk I can see between the keys, I'm not sure I'd want to...
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say "yes, but..." when someone asks to borrow it.
ISTM that being able to say "You won't like it..." would be an advantage.
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Dunno, every time I see talk of things like that though they are very expensive with very little reason to pay for it. Keyboard layouts generally don't change often (so hot swapping isn't much use) and better ones you arrange to whatever you want (only the cheaper ones have the different hooks).
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being able to say "You won't like it..." would be an advantage.
I consider it one, but it at work that shit doesn't fly so well.
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Yeah, but the concept had things like, the keyboard shortcuts for an application or OS being shown on the keys. I'd pay good money for a hardware + software package that'd do that.
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I have no idea whether the F and J keys have different hooks than those of the other keys.
I've only seen them on scissor and other styles of membrane switches so I'm going with no.
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I've only seen them on scissor and other styles of membrane switches so I'm going with no.
I guess not then. My keyboard is a mechanical one.
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I learned about it when I first picked up Dvorak (was using a laptop at the time).
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I've only seen them on scissor and other styles of membrane switches so I'm going with no.
switching keycaps on a membrane switch keyboard.....l
BAD IDEA!
switching them on a mechanical keyboard
AWESOME PRANK!
gluing them into the new positions
YOU OWE ME A NEW KEYBOARD!
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Yeah, but the concept had things like, the keyboard shortcuts for an application or OS being shown on the keys. I'd pay good money for a hardware + software package that'd do that.
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/popularis/
And yes, you need good money. Really good money.
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Sounds like typical headphone money for some of my friends.
(Do you really need 1k yo ironwood earcups?)
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I don't understand why you would want a keyboard without markings on the keys.
The only markings I need on my keyboards are nipples where the f and j keys are on an QWERTY keyboard.
So I know where to put my index fingers.
Seen I was 'd after I typed that, but in pub topping myself up and didn't want to lose that comment...
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As stated above: I chose the keycap-less keyboard becase it has no disadvantage (for me) and because I like the way it looks.
Eeble? Your keyboard has no keycaps? You type directly on the membrane and/or spiky plastic bits? Doesn't that hurt?
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@OffByOne said:
As stated above: I chose the keycap-less keyboard becase it has no disadvantage (for me) and because I like the way it looks.
Eeble? Your keyboard has no keycaps? You type directly on the membrane and/or spiky plastic bits? Doesn't that hurt?I said I like the way it looks, not that I like the way it feels
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That's what she said, too
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@accalia said:
B's hire Z's and fire them if they ever climb to be more than W's
*looks at keyboard*
So when a
Z
becomes a2
orF1
, they can pack their stuff and go home?discourse, go home you are drunk!
why did i get a quote notification for this post now?
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discourse, go home you are drunk!
why did i get a quote notification for this post now?
@boomzilla did his job and jeffed the posts to a new topic. Discourse doesn't handle jeffing as robustly as it should and coughed up some spurious notifications.
At least that's my understanding.
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i expected that yesterday when @boomzilla did the deed, but why was this one delayed until this morning?
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NFC. Discourse took an afternoon nap?
Come on Cali, you know the answer to that question is "because Discourse"