Samsung crapware hoists them by their own petard...in the PRC!



  • Well played by our favorite Korean corporation, getting into a food fight (with Chinese regulators shock, horror!) in front of a Chinese judge...



  • That would be the equivalent of EA being put on trial with a jury consisting solely of Steam users.



  • China is the hero the global market deserves. Isn't it China that was responsible for the inclusion of micro USB charging ports on all but the shittiest of phones?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    That was the EU. Some shitty e-waste legislation over device specific chargers (nevermind that the charger is the least hazardous part of any device, and the devices are still going in the bin)



  • My understanding was EU did it a couple years ago, China did it in 06.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    No, the EU brillantly decided to make mini-B be the standard, right before micro-B became available.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Huh. Apparently the EU didn't actually get it done until last year (and it isn't implemented until 2017). They sure as shit were talking about it for a long time, though. I was reading that it was "almost a done deal" almost a decade ago.

    I'm sure it's implemented in some cackhanded way that ensures we will be stuck with MicroUSB (which is my least favorite connector of all history) until the end of time.



  • They should put all of Europe under China.



  • The same fun is with Tizen TVs. Depending on country, a user can find dozens of crap apps on his shiny new TV. The interesting part, as usual, is the execution of shoving this stuff into user's face. In a stroke of wisdom, some Korean folk decided it's best to show those crap apps as already installed, despite not being downloaded yet. So if anyone decides to use any of it before the actual installation takes place, he'll be greeted with a nice big error on trying to launch anything. Now that's what I call a first-class new user experience!



  • Someone please say this also applies to Google crapware on Samsung phones.



  • @Weng said:

    we will be stuck with MicroUSB

    And have an excuse for tablet makers to provide a grossly insufficient amount of ports. Reinstalling Windows? Hope you got your tablet charged, because there's no way to plug a charger in once you've hooked the keyboard up! And if you want to install it from an USB stick, have a nice trip to the store for a hub, because you're doubly fucked!



  • Well, truth to be told, you should possess one USB hub anyway, if only for the high-power accessories like external harddrives or DVD/BluRay drives.



  • Huh, my external HDD is perfectly happy on a single USB port (coincidentally, it's also Samsung).

    Luckily a simple format was enough to take care of crapware on that one.



  • IIRC, the EU only threatened to legislate, and the manufacturers quickly came up with a joint standard.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @PleegWat said:

    IIRC, the EU only threatened to legislate, and the manufacturers quickly came up with a joint standard.

    "Do $THING voluntarily, or we'll legislate to force you to do it. It is, however - we stress - entirely voluntary... "

    Yeah, right. Nothing voluntary about it at all. I've seen similar stuff happen here.



  • True. But in the end it was the industry who picked the connector, not the EU.



  • Least hazardous? You gotta be joking. We are dealing with products that operate with mains power in a very size constrained amount of space. Safety is measured in millimeters, something that there is a shortage of. You do not want to take risks where a millimeter decides if it will start a fire or not.



  • Talking about hazardous waste.



  • And how exactly does a disposed power supply get power from the main when it's in a landfill?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Er. I take risks where less than a micron decides whether pieces of metal are going to start exploding uncomfortably close to my body, often starting vigorous fires in highly flammable toxic fluids along the way, all the while firmly secured in place under environmental conditions that can and will kill me if I endure them too long hurtling along at velocities that have the very real potential to kill me if I screw up. And I do it for fun. Your whole millimeters of entire amps of mains electrocity don't scare me.

    Oh, and as ben_lubar said, how the hell does a power supply in a landfill get a life threatening short? Are you mining landfills for power supplies?



  • @NeighborhoodButcher said:

    The interesting part, as usual, is the execution of shoving this stuff into user's face. In a stroke of wisdom, some Korean folk decided it's best to show those crap apps as already installed, despite not being downloaded yet.

    ...sounds pretty smart, actually. at least the crapware is not really there until someone decides it might not be a crapware.

    @NeighborhoodButcher said:

    So if anyone decides to use any of it before the actual installation takes place, he'll be greeted with a nice big error on trying to launch anything.

    ...but then this. brick an interesting idea with one that's obviously stupidly stupid and makes no sense.



  • @sh_code said:

    ...sounds pretty smart, actually. at least the crapware is not really there until someone decides it might not be a crapware.

    Not really - it gets automatically downloaded on first occasion.


  • :belt_onion:

    @sh_code said:

    @NeighborhoodButcher said:
    The interesting part, as usual, is the execution of shoving this stuff into user's face. In a stroke of wisdom, some Korean folk decided it's best to show those crap apps as already installed, despite not being downloaded yet.

    ...sounds pretty smart, actually. at least the crapware is not really there until someone decides it might not be a crapware.


    Any sufficiently advanced installer is indistinguishable from crapware. Kill it with fire! (Thermonuclear devices cause enough heat to qualify)

    Who wouldn't think "who put all this crap in the menu?" If you really want to shovel such tripe to the customer, put it as "Seriously recommended" in the "App store" front page but not in your Home screen.



  • @Weng said:

    how the hell does a power supply in a landfill get a life threatening short?

    With my old Nokia I had a number of spares then when I got a newer phone with a different charger connector I had to replace them all. Now my phone has micro USB I probably won't need to replace them again. And my wife's phone from a different manufacturer has the same connector so we can share chargers, reducing the number of chargers in the house.

    Fewer devices = less chance for a fire and more likely to buy a higher quality one too, further reducing fire risk. Landfill issues would be minor other than the fact I can carry on my charger going forward.



  • @NeighborhoodButcher said:

    So if anyone decides to use any of it before the actual installation takes place, he'll be greeted with a nice big error on trying to launch anything.

    I'm a prouddisgraced owner of one of these smart TVs. (I wasn't planning on getting one at the time but the store was out of regular TVs of the size I was looking for at the time, so they gave me one at the same price as a regular TV). As I found out, the crapware installation process happened a long time ago. However, the TV did freeze and restart itself at one point.

    I feel like I'm conducting a lab experiment with semi-hazardous chemicals every time I touch that TV, thanks to you. It's fun, in a morbid way. Would turning on a smart TV just to see how broken it is count as a Samsung SuccessTM?



  • While it's a very good plan in theory it hasn't really changed much.

    Since the format was standardized we've bought four Android phones (two each), four Lumia phones (ditto), a PS4, and a Kindle and they all use the same cable.

    So, while it's lovely and convenient that we don't have to root around the cable drawer looking for the right cable, each of the above devices came with its own cable. Consequently the amount of landfill hasn't changed at all.

    We have put cables at work, in the car, in each room at home, but when our phone contracts are up we'll end up with another two cables either sitting in the drawer or dumped.



  • @coldandtired said:

    Consequently the amount of landfill hasn't changed at all.

    Yes it has. I typically bought two spare chargers for each phone (one for car, one for work) but with micro USB I have a car charger and just another cable to charge from my work PC, so there was no need to actually buy additional chargers.



  • So the environment is slightly ahead now. But when you and your wife get your next phones/tablets/whatever you will get another cable per device and be in exactly the same situation I'm in.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    It's the difference between buying two extra chargers with every new phone and throwing the three for the last one away, and not buying any extra but still having spares. Still a win for the environment



  • For worse case scenarios, where people buy multiple cables and throw them away due to them being incompatible with the new shinies, yes.

    I would image the real amount of them being thrown away was much lower.

    Far more useful would be a law forcing electrical items to be sold without cables.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @coldandtired said:

    Far more useful draconian would be a law forcing electrical items to be sold without cables.

    HTH etc.



  • @coldandtired said:

    I would image the real amount of them being thrown away was much lower.

    I would imagine that the amount of waste from phone power cables is negligible no matter how you look at it. Most of them probably don't even end up in landfills to begin with, if the backs of the drawers in my house are anything to judge by.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    My Moto G came with a cable but no wall socket. I tend to get through at least one micro USB cable in the 2 years or so I keep a phone, so that's good enough for me


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @coldandtired said:

    Far more useful would be a law forcing electrical items to be sold without cables.

    What law would you be willing to give up to add this one?

    Nintendo (IIRC) was going to not put a cable in the new 3DS, since the design hasn't changed for a while, and they figured most people would already own one. There was still a lot of outrage over this.

    I'd be OK with seeing phones and the like come without a cable--if the price dropped by $10 or so.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @FrostCat said:

    What law would you be willing to give up to add this one?

    Shit, have we reached our quota of laws? Surely there's some obsolete ones we can remove to free up some space?



  • :thatsthejoke.blend:



  • The PC crowd seem to cope fine. I bought a NUC last month and had to supply my own HDMI/DisplayPort cable. Earlier versions also didn't come with the power supply and you needed your own.

    Graphics cards are sold without any way of connecting them to the TV/monitor, hard drives without SATA cables, mounting brackets, etc. Some cases are sold without a PSU.

    I would imagine that the percentage of people who buy a new phone in the EU and don't already have a microUSB cable has to be vanishingly small.

    Laziness beats environment every time and the simplest way to get people to reuse stuff is to put a penalty on taking the lazy option. See plastic bags, bottle returns, shopping trolleys, etc.



  • @coldandtired said:

    Earlier versions also didn't come with the power supply and you needed your own.

    I just bought a new stove and it didn't come with a power cord. I just used the old one.



  • @boomzilla said:

    I just bought a new stove and it didn't come with a power cord. I just used the old one.

    That's because NEMA 10 sockets are still a thing...



  • Now you mention it, I had to replace my induction hob a few weeks ago and while it came with a cable, it wasn't attached and didn't have a plug.

    I also had to take the old hob to the shop in order to collect the new one.



  • @coldandtired said:

    Graphics cards are sold without any way of connecting them to the TV/monitor,

    They usually come with the monitor. At work there's a drawer with about a bazillion VGA cables since most of our monitors came with both VGA and DVI. Of course we bought HDMI cables because no PC came with VGA-out...

    @coldandtired said:

    hard drives without SATA cables,

    Last time I did this there were always several SATA cables in the motherboard box.

    @coldandtired said:

    hard drives without SATA cables,

    @coldandtired said:
    mounting brackets

    Should be part of the case. Most cases I've had just bolt the drives straight to the chassis, I've had one that came with brackets (but not enough)

    @coldandtired said:

    and don't already have a microUSB cable has to be vanishingly small.

    Well my Nexus 4 was the first micro USB device in my house. It's almost 3 years old now and I'm using it right now. I only replace things when I have to, not because of new shinies!

    @boomzilla said:

    just bought a new stove and it didn't come with a power cord

    What? My stove is wired in so I wouldn't expect it to come with a cable, since the sparky would supply it if needed.@coldandtired said:

    also had to take the old hob to the shop in order to collect the new one.

    Is that because it's induction or they just want to make sure you have the right type? I've ordered a replacement hob from eBay and they just slide in, but then my stove has the old coil type hobs.



  • @Zemm said:

    Is that because it's induction or they just want to make sure you have the right type? I've ordered a replacement hob from eBay and they just slide in, but then my stove has the old coil type hobs.

    Not sure, to be honest. It was a stand-alone hob so it just sits in a hole cut in the kitchen top with a plug underneath.

    Regarding changing it I was told by many shops it would be necessary so I assume it might be some sort of initiative if not law, but I also got the impression that if I had turned up without the old one no-one would have cared that much. Maybe it's just a handy way to avoid having to drag it to the recycling centre myself.

    @Zemm said:

    Well my Nexus 4 was the first micro USB device in my house. It's almost 3 years old now and I'm using it right now. I only replace things when I have to, not because of new shinies!

    And at the beginning I was in the same position. But since then I seem to be acquiring the cables exponentially and it's only going to get worse :smile:


  • area_deu

    They don't include USB3 cables with phones that can do USB3. Assholes.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @coldandtired said:

    But since then I seem to be acquiring the cables exponentially

    What, each new device you buy comes with twice as many cables as the last one?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Jaloopa said:

    What, each new device you buy comes with twice as many cables as the last one?

    To be fair, if it was half as much each time it would still be exponential…


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Each device comes with a shorter cable? Makes sense, at least until you get to something like this



  • Exponential
    adj. of or relating to an exponent or exponents

    Exponent
    n. a person or thing that is a representative, advocate, type, or symbol of something

    A microUSB cable is a type of cable. Job done!

    Alternatively,

    Exponent
    n. a person or thing that expounds, explains, or interprets

    The instruction manual explains that I will find a cable in the box.

    Next I will explain how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.



  • Re: all the blither above about cables.

    Why didn't they all bleedin' settle on the connector my phone uses?

    Lightning. It's a small connector and it effing goes in either effing way around!

    'Course the socket fills with pocket dust and then goes flaky, but you can't win them all.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Steve_The_Cynic said:

    Why didn't they all bleedin' settle on ... Lightning

    Because Apple have copyright on it and won't let anyone else use it?

    There is talk of the reversable USB type C coming in as the new standard. I would be fully behind that. I'd also support a move back to Mini USB which was only slightly bigger, much harder to get the wrong way, and a hell of a lot more hard wearing IME.


  • area_deu

    USB 3.0 Micro-B is just fine in terms of wrong-way protection.


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