WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
You fuckin piece of shit, you just took an hour to apply updates, with multiple restarts and now you need to do it again?
An "update" is literally nothing more than copying some files from one location to another and changing some registry settings.
Why does an update take hour(s) when a full clean install of Windows, starting with nothing but an empty hard drive, takes about 15 minutes. How is that level of retarded fuckery even possible?
Because there's a big difference between installing on a blank drive and doing an in-place soft reinstall of the OS with a partial backup and repair of your user profile(s) and current OS (so you can, in theory, undo the update) and similar updates to and backup of the hidden restore partition?
Given 30 years of cruft the whole process is probably overly complicated, but it is what it is. You're welcome to make an install drive and wipe-and-install every year instead. It'll be just like Windows 9x! :)
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
(so you can, in theory, undo the update)
It works too, IME.
Earlier in the year I rolled 2004 back to 1903. Was pretty quick too. Quicker than applying the update.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And they haven't fixed it for Windows 7.
Unsupported! you!
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@dcon I meant in 2009.
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@Gąska IIRC on Windows 7 they fixed it, then at some point unfixed it. I thought they'd refixed it, but if it was still fucked in 2017 (when I'd long stopped using 7 at home) then I guess not.
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@loopback0 they haven't fixed it - the N was just too small to notice the first few years.
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@Gąska There was at least one fix for it. I thought there was an earlier one too but a quick Google didn't show anything before 2015.
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@loopback0 every time I complained about it, somebody said it has been fixed. And it never has been. At least not on this earth#.
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@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
But getting it to install the latest ones supplied took a day or two of running the update service.
Also, as mentioned above, they’re doing some kind of “force everyone to a certain version” thing just to hide they’re about to hit large values of N once again.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
But getting it to install the latest ones supplied took a day or two of running the update service.
I just meant that they're not making updates for Windows 7 anymore
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
Unless you do fresh install. Which is still a thing, you know.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
But getting it to install the latest ones supplied took a day or two of running the update service.
I just meant that they're not making updates for Windows 7 anymore
I know.
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: They are.
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@JBert said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Now it will actually prepare, restart, execute the update and then shut down so that the next time you start it will be ready.
Awwww, you believe a Windows 10 feature will actually work like it should. So cute
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@JBert said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Now it will actually prepare, restart, execute the update and then shut down so that the next time you start it will be ready.
Awwww, you believe a Windows 10 feature will actually work like it should. So cute
Hey, I said it was newly implemented in 2004, and I've actually seen it work. I did not make any statements about how long it will keep working.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
Unless you do fresh install. Which is still a thing, you know.
I know, but anyone installing Windows 7 fresh nearly a year after it went EOL deserves some pain.
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@loopback0 nobody ever deserved that much pain.
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And it's still less painful that having to use Windows 10
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Updates definitely aren't a problem on Windows 7 anymore
Unless you do fresh install. Which is still a thing, you know.
I know, but anyone installing Windows 7 fresh nearly a year after it went EOL deserves some pain.
I'm installing 7 fresh to try and get this machine in an activated state so I can upgrade the license to 10. Yes, I've tried using the supposed key to directly install 10, does not work because it's the Dell "we use this key for all our machines because the real key is in the BIOS" one.
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Windows helpfully popped up a prompt to delete its old version because I was running out of space. Apparently I had 26 GB worth of old windows sitting on my C: drive
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I know, but anyone installing Windows
7 fresh nearly a year after it went EOLdeserves some pain.FTFY
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As opposed to installing Linux, which is well-known to be a completely painless operation
(cue the "Nonsense. I can install Linux on a toaster and have it completely operational in less than 5 seconds" crowd)
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@Zerosquare At least, the updates are painless
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Yeah, but that's just because there's no driver for the pain receptors
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare At least, the updates are painless
Never tried Gentoo, eh?
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Never tried Gentoo, eh?
I'm crazy, not stupid
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare At least, the updates are painless
I updated one of our work AWS instances from an official Debian 9 image to an official Debian 10 image so that a package we needed would be available. And everything broke horribly. Not because our code broke, but because the instance just stopped being able to see the network entirely during the post-boot setup phase. Apt-get? Nope. Outbound pings? nope. Local network? no dice. You could ssh in and it would all work fine, but during the AWS initialization phase it couldn't do anything network related. Which rather caused problems, because those are all managed via a central server (per cluster). Plus the whole not being able to download the package we upgraded the thing for automatically.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
during the AWS initialization phase it couldn't do anything network related
We've upgraded many servers from Debian 9 to 10 without any issue. But we're not on AWS, we have our own VMWare infrastructure.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Benjamin-Hall said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
during the AWS initialization phase it couldn't do anything network related
We've upgraded many servers from Debian 9 to 10 without any issue. But we're not on AWS, we have our own VMWare infrastructure.
It should have worked flawlessly. But it didn't. And I spent most of a day chasing issues down a rabbit hole.
But then again, I've had basically 0 problems with Windows 7 or 10 and tons of issues with my work-issued macbook pro(s) (at two jobs now).
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
As opposed to installing Linux, which is well-known to be a completely painless operation
(cue the "Nonsense. I can install Linux on a toaster and have it completely operational in less than 5 seconds" crowd)
Well, it's not BSD.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@dcon I am a firm believer that the Windows update functionnality was coded by a bunch of interns fresh from high school.
Change my mind ™
You have a higher opinion of them than I do.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
As opposed to installing Linux, which is well-known to be a completely painless operation
(cue the "Nonsense. I can install Linux on a toaster and have it completely operational in less than 5 seconds" crowd)
Though, Linux has been less of a pain to install for me for a couple of decades. Depending on which distro. Gentoo is obviously not among them.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Ugh. This mouse thing turns out to be the mouse sending something that Kaspersky doesn't like. Or maybe it's a polling interval thing. Or something. Using the Omen mouse without the control center software will cause BSODs, but the machine is rock-solid if I don't plug in that mouse.
How about the simplest explanation?: The driver for that mouse needs the control center.
And Kaspersky probably intercepts the communication out of curiosity. The occasional lag from that intercept then hangs the driver, which hangs the kernel.
...We need a tech magazine that includes an overview of the driver's behavior in their Mice & Peripherals reviews.
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@Benjamin-Hall AWS instances are a sort of virtual machine, right? Did you remember to yank out the paravirtual guest drivers before upgrading? Or was it a Debian variant specifically meant for AWS, with a dedicated apt repo?
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Ugh. This mouse thing turns out to be the mouse sending something that Kaspersky doesn't like. Or maybe it's a polling interval thing. Or something. Using the Omen mouse without the control center software will cause BSODs, but the machine is rock-solid if I don't plug in that mouse.
How about the simplest explanation?: The driver for that mouse needs the control center.
And Kaspersky probably intercepts the communication out of curiosity. The occasional lag from that intercept then hangs the driver, which hangs the kernel.
...We need a tech magazine that includes an overview of the driver's behavior in their Mice & Peripherals reviews.
Except that the BSOD is an actual crash inside Kaspersky's "mouse filter" (according to an analysis of the minidump by someone on the Microsoft forums). If Windows installs its own driver, there's no reason for it to expect the control center software (and it BSODs with or without the software).
And that would make it so that an effing mouse review would have to be an extended review in all cases, in case there's a goofy behaviour like I see, that takes longer than a couple of minutes to happen. (It's an intermittent, and took a couple of days to show up last time I tried to connect the mouse.)
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Why is an antivirus installing a mouse filter in the first place?
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@Zerosquare To make sure it doesn't change into an ethernet adapter while idle more than 5 minutes?
That's a joke, but it is technically a viable exploit vector in an exnterprise setting.
And so: https://support.kaspersky.com/KESWin/11/en-US/128042.htm
Device Control ensures the security of confidential data by restricting user access to devices that are installed on the computer or connected to it, including:
- Data storage devices (hard drives, removable drives, tape drives, CD/DVD drives)
- Data transfer tools (modems, external network cards)
- Devices that are designed for converting data to hard copies (printers)
- Connection buses (also referred to as simply "buses"), referring to interfaces for connecting devices to computers (such as USB, FireWire, and Infrared)
Device Control manages user access to devices by applying device access rules (also referred to as "access rules") and connection bus access rules (also referred to as "bus access rules").
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Gets better: https://support.kaspersky.com/KIS/2019/en-US/70895.htm
When using the Internet, you frequently need to enter your personal data or your user name and password. This happens, for example, during account registration on websites, online shopping, and Internet banking.
There is a risk that personal data can be intercepted by hardware keyboard interceptors or keyloggers, which are programs that record keystrokes. The On-Screen Keyboard tool prevents the interception of data entered via the keyboard.
Many programs classified as spyware can take screenshots, which then are automatically transmitted to an intruder for further analysis to steal the user's personal data. On-Screen Keyboard protects entered personal data from attempts to intercept it by means of screenshots.
On-Screen Keyboard has the following features:
- You can click the On-Screen Keyboard buttons with the mouse.
- Unlike hardware keyboards, it is impossible to press several keys simultaneously on On-Screen Keyboard. This is why key combinations (such as ALT+F4) require that you click the first key (for example, ALT), then the second key (for example, F4), and then the first key again. The second click of the key acts in the same way as releasing the key on a hardware keyboard.
- The On-Screen Keyboard language can be switched by using the same shortcut that is specified by the operating system settings for the hardware keyboard. To do so, right-click the other key (for example, if the LEFT ALT+SHIFT shortcut is configured in the operating system settings for switching the keyboard language, left-click the LEFT ALT key and then right-click the SHIFT key).
So, for ultimate , you can trust Kaspersky's virtual keyboard more than your physical one.
And (this is a guesstimate) so that even Windows will not know what you've clicked, it sniffs the mouse movements for the input instead of relying on Windows.
... Pity. It would have been nice if it were an acceleration-remover. I've been thinking of buying one.
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It would have been nice if it were an acceleration-remover. I've been thinking of buying one.
Do you mean mouse acceleration? You can remove it by disabling "Enhance pointer precision".
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It would have been nice if it were an acceleration-remover. I've been thinking of buying one.
Do you mean mouse acceleration? You can remove it by disabling "Enhance pointer precision".
Yes, I know, but the 3rd party acceleration removers also remove other filtering.
Windows filters mouse input a lot, which becomes noticeable if you ever need to move the pointer just one pixel (e.g. drawing a vector diagram in Inkscape, or certain PC games). I think it's trying to eliminate the pointer micro-shaking and slow idle-creep from cheap optical sensors or something. But the filtering just gets in my way sometimes.
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I never encountered this in Windows 7 (and I've developed firmware for mice, so I probably would have noticed), but it looks like MS
improvedfucked with mouse handling starting with Windows 8.There's a tweak there that might help you:
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Benjamin-Hall AWS instances are a sort of virtual machine, right? Did you remember to yank out the paravirtual guest drivers before upgrading? Or was it a Debian variant specifically meant for AWS, with a dedicated apt repo?
Completely new image, so basically a fresh install. And this was an official "made for AWS" image.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
made for AWS
by who, Debian or AWS?
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Benjamin-Hall said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
made for AWS
by who, Debian or AWS?
Debian, but sold for free but AWS.
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Status: Twenty plus fucking years and this shit still happens...
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@Tsaukpaetra But you can still browse the files
WONTFIX_ASDESIGNED
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra But you can still browse the files
WONTFIX_ASDESIGNED
Actually, no, I can't browse the files. Until I manage to convince Windows it's in an alien network and then connect it back to my home network again.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Who the fuck maps network servers to floppy drives letters?