Enlightened

dkf

@admiral_p That'd be fine… except they're encouraging others to build on top of their stuff.

Kian

@admiral_p said in Enlightened:

I still maintain that they're true heroes.

How is it heroic? They're not exactly breaking conventions by releasing crap software for Linux.

Gąska

@Kian

SlackerD

from

Documentation

The EFL is currently undergoing a significant redesign to give a better developer experience when building apps using our platform. We will be announcing the new API shortly to get early feedback from developers but for now we recommend using the stable API and its Bindings.

Somehow I doubt that it will be a better developer experience.

Atazhaia

@SlackerD Maybe they're finally replacing the offensive error messages?

NeighborhoodButcher

Will it finally crash consistently, instead of randomly?

hungrier

Peter

Samsung thinks it can sell 5-6 million foldable phones next year

The company is reportedly planning to boost production capacity by 10x, but analysts are dubious if there's enough demand.

Atazhaia

@hungrier Considering that they are offering free replacements for any damaged screens during the first year, they'd probably need to make 5-6 million phones for the dozen who bought into the gimmick.

TimeBandit

@levicki said in Enlightened:

Samsung also thinks they can make a better phone and software than Apple.

That's a low bar to clear

hungrier

@levicki said in Enlightened:

@hungrier Samsung also thinks they can make a better phone and software than Apple.

At least on the hardware side they used to be good at resisting stupid modern trends like the notch and removing the 1/8" headphone jack, but they've lost that as well.

Then again, Apple used to be good at rejecting stupid crap as well, but that died with Steve Jobs.

Steve_The_Cynic

@hungrier said in Enlightened:

Then again, Apple used to be good at rejecting stupid crap as well, but that died with Steve Jobs.

Yeah, crap like "really big phablet-sized phones" except that the bar for a phone being a phablet has moved recently. Either way, it was time to replace my slightly creaking iPhone 7, and the alternatives (remaining at Apple, natch) were:

8: why replace a 3 year-old product with a new-build of one that was released two years ago?
8 Plus: monstrously huge ==> no.
XR: Nearly as big as the 8 Plus ==> no.
11: Same size as the XR ==> no.
11 Pro Max: Nearly the same size as the 8 Plus and painfully expensive ==> no.
11 Pro (not-Max): Slightly bigger than the 7 or the 8, but just small enough for my pocket, but painfully expensive ==> well, I'm paid enough to be able to afford a 64GB one, and I don't actually need more than 64GB of storage (about 97GB free on my 128GB iP7) ==> ok, fine, yes.

I expect that in three years time, the smallest iPhones will have bigger screens than today's model of iPad Mini.

dfdub

@Steve_The_Cynic

<tinfoil_hat>They want you to accept that your cell phone doesn't fit into your jeans pocket and finally buy an Apple Watch.</tinfoil_hat>

hungrier

@Steve_The_Cynic IIRC, there are rumours that they'll release a followup to the iPhone SE, but I don't know if there's anything solid there yet.

Steve_The_Cynic

@dfdub said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic

<tinfoil_hat>They want you to accept that your cell phone doesn't fit into your jeans pocket and finally buy an Apple Watch.</tinfoil_hat>

Wrong theory is wrong. I already have an Apple Watch.

@levicki said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic I decided on the iPhone 11 Pro 64 GB, the problem is it's not available in that size at the moment (only 256 and 512), and in that color (only space Green, nothing else).

I live in a city where there's actually an Apple Store. The secret is to check on the Apple website when you get up to see if it's available for in-store pickup, and get to the store when it opens or shortly afterwards so that you can reserve it before everyone else tries. And watch out for the anti-Apple protesters. They showed up while I was in the store, which is how I learned where the back entrance to the store is. (Er, the staff was guiding customers out that way to avoid confrontations with the protesters, and, I suspect, to avoid the possibility of the protesters getting into the store.

Atazhaia

@levicki said in Enlightened:

@hungrier Samsung also ~~thinks~~knows they ~~can~~ make a better phones and software than Apple.

FTFS

_P_

@Atazhaia said in Enlightened:

@levicki said in Enlightened:

@hungrier Samsung also ~~thinks~~knows they ~~can~~ make a better phones and software than Apple.

FTFS

By making Android phones you're already making better phones and software than Apple

Atazhaia

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

And watch out for the anti-Apple protesters.

I know Apple are a popular punching bag for many reasons, but actual protests? What were they protesting? And what were they hoping to gain by flocking outside a random Apple store instead of something like a regional office or their HQ?

topspin

@_P_ said in Enlightened:

@Atazhaia said in Enlightened:

@levicki said in Enlightened:

@hungrier Samsung also ~~thinks~~knows they ~~can~~ make a better phones and software than Apple.

FTFS

By making Android phones you're already making better phones and software than Apple

Only if you're truly "Enlightened".

Watson

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

I expect that in three years time, the smallest iPhones will have bigger screens than today's model of ~~iPad~~BMW Mini.

acrow

@Watson said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

I expect that in three years time, the smallest iPhones will have bigger screens than today's model of ~~iPad~~BMW Mini.

Some way there yet:

Both the BMW 8 Series and the X5 have Live Cockpit Professional, both have a 12.3-inch info (driver) displays, but the X5 has a 12.3-inch control (centre) display while the 8 Series has a 10.25-inch control display

Steve_The_Cynic

@Atazhaia said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

And watch out for the anti-Apple protesters.

I know Apple are a popular punching bag for many reasons, but actual protests? What were they protesting? And what were they hoping to gain by flocking outside a random Apple store instead of something like a regional office or their HQ?

Yes, actual protests. They arrived while I was in the store (Lille, in the département "Nord", so not exactly "a random Apple store"), upstairs getting a case for the phone (so it actually lies flat on a table because the camera bump is less tall than the thickness of the case). They put white hand-prints in a big row down the windows and were shouting about something (but the only word I could make out was "Apple") and waving protest signs around. Apple's security people and staff were guiding customers out the back door of the shop.

My best guess is something tied to the Hong Kong thing, but ...

boomzilla

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

Lille, in the département "Nord", so not exactly "a random Apple store"

Aside from being that one in particular, what makes it unlike any other "random Apple store?" (Says the guy who's never been in any Apple store.)

Steve_The_Cynic

@boomzilla said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

Lille, in the département "Nord", so not exactly "a random Apple store"

Aside from being that one in particular, what makes it unlike any other "random Apple store?" (Says the guy who's never been in any Apple store.)

OK, that's a fair question. What I meant was that it's not just a small "hick" town(1), except that it seems to me unlikely that you'd find an Apple store in an actual small hick town anyway. Conclusion: it's a thoroughly artificial distinction. Sorry.

On the other hand, Lille and environs are fairly left-leaning(3), so protests of this sort aren't exactly rare around here.

(1) Lille is, when you include its "agglomération"(2), among the largest of French cities.

(2) In English, I'd translate this term approximately as "conurbation".

(3) I'm not, as such, left-leaning at all, although there's no way I'd class myself as a goggly-eyed extremist of any sort.

Steve_The_Cynic

@Watson said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

I expect that in three years time, the smallest iPhones will have bigger screens than today's model of ~~iPad~~BMW Mini.

The iPad Mini has an eight-inch screen. Do you fancy a phone that big? I know I don't.

Atazhaia

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

The iPad Mini has an eight-inch screen. Do you fancy a phone that big? I know I don't.

The main problem with using the iPad Mini as a phone would be that it's a bit too wide. Because Apple are pushing the 4:3-ish form factor very hard for the iPads, it's not very comfortable to hold in one hand. I did compare the regular iPad with the Mini and settled on the regular, because the Mini was not comfortable to hold and then I may as well get the bigger one.

Comparing with my old tablet (a Nexus 7), it was 16:9 7" and I could comfortably hold it in one hand like a phone, so I could theoretically use it like a phone normally is too by holding it up to the side of my head. Sure, it'd look really stupid, but it would work.

Atazhaia

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

My best guess is something tied to the Hong Kong thing, but ...

Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Apple is one of the companies on the Hong Kong shitlist atm. So I did a double faux pas yesterday by playing a Blizzard game on a MacBook.

Luhmann

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

it's not just a small "hick" town

I would guess it's more ch'tis

Vixen

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

"agglomération"

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

(2) In English, I'd translate this term approximately as "conurbation".

I don't know if this is an Americanism or not, but based on my understanding of the french term (1) I would translate it as "Suburbs" or "Urban Sprawl"

(1) Nota Bene(2): I flunked Middle school french class

(2) Latin too.(3)

(3) But I like(4)

(4) Footnotes

Benjamin Hall

@Vixen Related to footnote (4)--one of my favorite things about the Discworld (Terry Pratchet) books is the use of snarky footnotes.

Bulb

@Benjamin-Hall … further improved in the Czech translation by presence of author footnotes and translator footnotes, the later often completing or improving upon the jokes (that may not be well translatable on their own).

dfdub

@Benjamin-Hall said in Enlightened:

Related to footnote (4)--one of my favorite things about the Discworld (Terry Pratchet) books is the use of snarky footnotes.

David Foster Wallace hid half of the story in footnotes in Infinite Jest. You had to look them up in the back of the book.

What a nightmare to read, but also brilliantly written.

Benjamin Hall

@dfdub said in Enlightened:

@Benjamin-Hall said in Enlightened:

Related to footnote (4)--one of my favorite things about the Discworld (Terry Pratchet) books is the use of snarky footnotes.

David Foster Wallace hid half of the story in footnotes in Infinite Jest. You had to look them up in the back of the book.

What a nightmare to read, but also brilliantly written.

I hate hate hate endnotes. Footnotes are fine, but end notes just get ignored or raged-about.

dfdub

@Benjamin-Hall said in Enlightened:

Footnotes are fine, but end notes just get ignored or raged-about.

I think in this particular case, annoying the reader was half of the point. Reading that book requires a bit of masochism.

Benjamin Hall

@dfdub said in Enlightened:

@Benjamin-Hall said in Enlightened:

Footnotes are fine, but end notes just get ignored or raged-about.

I think in this particular case, annoying the reader was half of the point. Reading that book requires a bit of masochism.

Which is one reason (beyond just not being interested) I'll never read the book. I'm not a fan of Literature--it's all pretentious and reader-hostile.

boomzilla

@Vixen said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

(2) In English, I'd translate this term approximately as "conurbation".

I don't know if this is an Americanism or not, but based on my understanding of the french term (1) I would translate it as "Suburbs" or "Urban Sprawl"

Urban sprawl is better, since it should include the urban center, I think. In any case, no, not a term commonly used in America.

Conurbation - Wikipedia

The term as described is used in Britain, whereas in the United States each polycentric "metropolitan area" may have its own common designation, such as San Francisco Bay Area or the Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex. Conurbation consists of adjacent metropolitan areas that are connected with one another by urbanization

dfdub

@Benjamin-Hall said in Enlightened:

I'm not a fan of Literature--it's all pretentious and reader-hostile.

Actually, I think the book is deliberately making fun of that pretentiousness.

Benjamin Hall

@dfdub said in Enlightened:

@Benjamin-Hall said in Enlightened:

I'm not a fan of Literature--it's all pretentious and reader-hostile.

Actually, I think the book is deliberately making fun of that pretentiousness.

Either way, I'm not interested in such things.

Steve_The_Cynic

@Vixen said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

"agglomération"

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

(2) In English, I'd translate this term approximately as "conurbation".

I don't know if this is an Americanism or not, but based on my understanding of the french term (1) I would translate it as "Suburbs" or "Urban Sprawl"

I would have described "urban sprawl" as the process, and "metropolitan area" (as noted by @boomzilla) as the result, except that a good part of the Lille agglomération is fairly rural, which is why I described the translation as approximate.

boomzilla

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

@Vixen said in Enlightened:

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

"agglomération"

@Steve_The_Cynic said in Enlightened:

(2) In English, I'd translate this term approximately as "conurbation".

I don't know if this is an Americanism or not, but based on my understanding of the french term (1) I would translate it as "Suburbs" or "Urban Sprawl"

I would have described "urban sprawl" as the process, and "metropolitan area" (as noted by @boomzilla) as the result, except that a good part of the Lille agglomération is fairly rural, which is why I described the translation as approximate.

The American usage of the word is very definitely not the process but the fact of it. Though the name definitely implies the process.

cvi

@Vixen said in Enlightened:

I don't know if this is an Americanism or not, but based on my understanding of the french term¹ I would translate it as "Suburbs" or "Urban Sprawl"
__
¹ Nota Bene²: I flunked Middle school french class
² Latin too.³
³ But I like⁴
⁴ Footnotes

If you like footnotes, at least do them in style.

Vixen

@cvi said in Enlightened:

@Vixen said in Enlightened:

I don't know if this is an Americanism or not, but based on my understanding of the french term¹ I would translate it as "Suburbs" or "Urban Sprawl"
__
¹ Nota Bene²: I flunked Middle school french class
² Latin too.³
³ But I like⁴
⁴ Footnotes

If you like footnotes, at least do them in style.

Zerosquare

@cvi said in Enlightened:

If you like footnotes, at least do them in style.

They're not footnotes. They're FoxNotes™.

Vixen

@Zerosquare said in Enlightened:

@cvi said in Enlightened:

If you like footnotes, at least do them in style.

They're not footnotes. They're FoxNotes™.

KYON!

https://avatars.elementia.me/avatars/static/memes/fox_love.gif

pie_flavor

@Steve_The_Cynic Joke's on you, you bought an Apple product.

HannibalRex

Just wanted to contribute my own little anecdote to this thread, which has brought me so much entertainment. But first, some context, which makes it more fun for me. It is as much the story of innocence corrupted as it is bad software.

It is 2013, I am getting interested in programming and computing more generally, and decide to take the plunge with Linux. I manage to get a Debian installation working on my little netbook, and it is finally the year of the Linux desktop!!

But this Atom processor and like 3GB of RAM leave something to be desired. Being a Linux noob, I keep hearing about all these different "Desktop Environments" (my Windows 7 mind is blown that there is more than one), and how some are better options for low-powered laptops. I like the look of this "Enlightenment E17" one, and decide hey, let's try it out.

But of course, Debian Stable is Debian Stable, and nothing released in the last decade is in the repos, much less this E17 thing. I'll need to upgrade to testing to even have a chance of compiling it. Did I mention I was quite new to all this? Compiling and setting up an entire desktop environment turns out to be slightllllly more involved than implied by the make && make install instructions.

10,000 years later it is compiled and set up, but of course there are some problems. No matter how many libraries I try to install (HAL, Udisk, Udisk2, some EFL thing called eeze) and how many different compile time options I try, I just cannot get the file manager to mount a removable USB drive.

The only clue I have is that in the file manager settings, there is a "Device Mode" field, and instead of saying "HAL" or "Udisks2" or one of the libraries I told it to use for this, it says 'RASTER'. Hmm, what the hell is "RASTER" mode? Did I mention I was quite new to all this? I have only recently learned about Ext4, and swap, and NTFS, so I literally have no idea if "RASTER" mode is a thing.

Googling "device mode raster" is no help, so I take to the mailing list, explaining the issue and providing this single solitary clue. One of the first replies I get is a "WTF are you talking about?" reply, from someone named Carsten Haitzler. Eventually, someone else tells me that "RASTER" is the default value for this field, and means no other device mounting back end is enabled or in use. The rest of the thread suggests me to try things I already tried, and I remain confused with no resolution.

But, now I am also confused about that initial reply I got. I am new and unsure of myself, and hearing "WTF are you talking about" kind of stuck with me in a negative way. So, I find myself coming back and re-reading that message, and at some point, I finally appreciate the nickname this Carsten Haitzler fellow has in their email signature: The Rasterman. I find this to be a very strange coincidence. "Device Mode: RASTER"... The Rasterman...

Some time later, I learn that this "Rasterman" is the project founder, and it dawns on me. The default device mode has nothing to do with removable hard drives or USB sticks, but was just some random value stuck in there (not by him, apparently) to pay homage to the project founder or something. Great.

I was annoyed by this completely unhelpful little easter egg, but from this thread, I learned this kind of inside joke is par for the EFL course, and I have nothing to ~~BITCH~~COMPLAIN about, and it is I who is the naughty user. Though perhaps there is some significance to the fact that "RASTER" mode is the one that is used when nothing else is working.

I no longer use the Enlightenment E17 desktop, as I found myself with less and less time to spend compiling and troubleshooting broken and misleading desktop environments. But, the legend of the Rasterman lives on in people's device mode everywhere...

Zerosquare

Starting your computing experience with Enlightenment... this sounds like a bad prank. Kudos to you for not running away screaming!

HannibalRex

@Zerosquare Having no frame of reference can have weird effects on people.

Well, actually, I shouldn't say I had no frame of reference. One thing I did before this was compile Emacs on Windows 7. So that I could use Octave, inside org-mode. I think this is literally the only thing a person could do and walk away thinking "things would be so much easier on Linux".

Yes, I agree, there is something wrong with me.

marczellm

@HannibalRex said in Enlightened:

compile Emacs on Windows 7. So that I could use Octave, inside org-mode.

I never built Emacs but I had to recompile a Lisp module of it called tramp, because it was built on *nix but some symbol required for Windows was missing, in order for me to be able to launch a sqlplus session over ssh inside Emacs, on Windows, for database class.

JBert

@Zerosquare said in Enlightened:

Starting your computing experience with Enlightenment... this sounds like a bad prank. Kudos to you for not running away screaming!

Actually, I used Enlightenment E16 for several years. It didn't do all that much, so there wasn't so much to go wrong...

HannibalRex

Oh yeah, I remember tramp!

@marczellm said in Enlightened:

for database class.

At least you had a something like a good reason. I was just operating under the belief that I was doing something necessary and useful.