Common Core math question is Algebra!!!! *gasp*
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My point is teach it first, it pays more dividends the longer you have known it and are learning.
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That's Morris Kline's opinion. His is not the only, or even a particularly important, opinion in mathematics pedagogy.
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My point is teach it first
Not if every student can't learn it first.
The problem is that all students are treated the same.
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The world will always need ditch diggers.
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And I have no problem with that.
But there's a difference between saying,
"You have trouble with advanced abstract concepts."
and
"You are a complete failure at math."
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http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/common-core-math-problem.jpg
So, no they don't.
I would come the next day with a calculator and ask the teacher to prove it.
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His point wasn't, don't teach it.His point was that we teach traditional math first, and abstraction later, like we are already doing.
Algebra comes later. And it was mandatory when I was in middle school.
Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
My 4 year old daughter can already subtract values less than 10, and can multiply by 2, and count to 20.
Exactly. Using non-common core methods, my almost 6 year old[1] is learning long addition; multiplication by 2, 3, 9, and 10 (easy stuff first, right? ;)); and who knows how high she can count anymore. My 3 year old can do single digit addition/subtraction and count to 14 reliably (some days higher).
[1] Her birthday is next week. I felt the approximation was appropriate.
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I had assumed that was just the same as the old "add 10, minus 1" trick I learned in school for adding 9, but just for 8, but that exam questioning actually is retarded. And the kid's answer is correct. (Also, , I agree with @xaade...)
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Get a pile of 8 things. Then another pile of 5 things. Surely you can find a way to put them together so you have a pile of 10 things.
You'll end up with a pile of thirteen things...
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Or you'll end up with a pile of 10, and a pile on the floor and out of sight.
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Question: add 8 + 5 to make 10.
Kid:
Teacher: No, you dummy, you just add 8 + 5 to get 13.
Kid:
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@Captain said:
Get a pile of 8 things. Then another pile of 5 things. Surely you can find a way to put them together so you have a pile of 10 things.
You'll end up with a pile of thirteen things...
As @cvi said above, @Captain's restatement of the problem makes more sense than the original. However, it still implies a single result, not two piles — one of 10 and one of some_other_number_that_is_not_relevant_to_this_question. A student who has seen this demonstrated in class might reasonably be expected to make that inference, but even the restatement does not make that explicit.I don't recall seeing anywhere in this topic a mention of what age children are being asked this question. Piaget and Neo-Piagetian psychologists would, AIUI, would consider expecting this reasoning of a child less than about 10 to be age-inappropriate (some might be capable of understanding as young as seven; others not until >10), although there have been challenges to Piaget's theory of development.
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The two highly-agreeable main points I get from this topic:
- The question was phrased poorly.
- Expecting all children to grasp the same solution[1] to a class of problems is poor education.
[1]The process by which one solves problems, not the individual answers to problems themselves. Those would be answers.
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So instead of what I learned in Ye Olden Days of:
1 + = 6, what number goes in ? (Congrats you just did Algebra!)
New-Age-Teaching-Mummbo-Jumbo is basically doing "borrowing and carrying"++?
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What's the double of 10, under Common Core? No, bitches, it isn't 20... it's 5. Back on Planet Earth, 5 is half of 10. By the way, the architects of this bullshit know exactly what they're doing.
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I refuse to believe this is an actual question and that someone would refer to x/2 as 'the double of x' i.e. 2(x/2)=x
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Yep, I refuse:
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I feel like there needs to be a math study flashcards generator that does incredibly wrong things like what we've been discussing.
Edit: done
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Trust me, I had this problem in school, having right answers rejected because the teacher didn't like how I determined the answer, and it involved common core type thinking.
Same here. I was always proficient at math and would have homework and tests failed because I did not show my work on Algebra problems. I could do them in my head and was punished for it. I would just end up writing down the answer and then going back and writing it out long hand.
That was super annoying.
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I refuse to believe this is an actual question and that someone would refer to x/2 as 'the double of x' i.e. 2(x/2)=x
Maybe they mean 'the double of X', like some evil mirror-X which came from some parallel universe and has a goatee...
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And the kid's answer is correct.
Strictly speaking it's not as there are at least two ways to get 10 by adding 8 and 5. Do it in base 13, or do it modulo 3 (although strictly speaking you don't get 10 with the latter, but you get an answer congruent to 10).But from a primary school kid's point of view, arithmetic can be assumed to be in base 10 and the real numbers (or possibly R+ or Z or Z+ or N) with their usual operations so yes.
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They take 2 of 5... but what about taking 5 of 8 to add to 5 ?
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Are you people teaching math wrong to children on purpose?
Yes. As @abarker said, instead of drilling the basics, they're trying to teach them via the sorts of shortcuts people come up with to do stuff quickly in their heads.
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But, meh, I don't really know anything about teaching at that level, so...
Are you sure you aren't a teacher?
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Which is as dumb as saying you got a trig problem wrong because you used a different method or an integration problem wrong because you used u-substitution when it wasn't needed.
But if you're testing a certain technique, that solution should be marked as wrong. That's different than sabotaging basic arithmetic skills.
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@Captain, post:112, topic:8714 said:
Or you'll end up with a pile of 10, and a pile on the floor and out of sight.
And seemingly no amount of yelling at the fucking kid will get him to pick up his piles of shit and put them away where they belong.
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There are 8 boys and 5 girls playing on your lawn.
How do you chase 10 of them away?
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Shoot 3 of them.
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I think they have it backwards, in that they put a side effect as the goal. If you want to add 8 and 5, you already know the answer is going to be between 'x' and '1y' (x and y being placeholders for digits yet to be determined).
In fact, the question is even more stupid because it requires that you already know the answer before you can ask it. After all, how do you know 8 + 5 is higher than 10 before you do the operation? It's obvious to you because you already memorized every combination of single digit addition, of course, but if you're teaching addition, the student is probably still counting up with his fingers.
You need to know that the answer is greater than 10 to know you need to get to 10 to get the units. So it's not even a shortcut, it asks you to arrive to the destination, then double back to halfway to your destination. Consider, if not, "How to take 10 from 2 + 5". You can't, because 7 is smaller than 10, so you don't need to add up to 10 and then add the remainder. But in order to know that, you need to already know the result of 2 + 5, or count up to it.
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how do you know 8 + 5 is higher than 10 before you do the operation?
I do a lot of Kakuro puzzles while commuting (when not writing code ;)) so knowing what 8+5 is is really useful.
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You're also not an elementary school student.
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I mostly do nonograms while on the train.
But kakuro puzzles are also nice.
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You're also not an elementary school student.
Quick, stop the presses! We've got a late scoop from our special reporter, Captain Obvious…
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Commuting by car, I get no such luxuries… but I do get to work in about a third of the time
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Commuting by car, I get no such luxuries… but I do get to work in about a third of the time
Used to go by road, but the M62 is brutal (especially in winter).
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Well, then the teacher shot the 3 girls.
Sexist teacher.
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In fact, the question is even more stupid because it requires that you already know the answer before you can ask it.
Which is why this method is stupid for teaching math.
You invariably have to learn to count, and which numbers are greater than others, and what simple addition is, before you can perform these problems anyway.Thinking that this helps a person learn addition is ridiculous, because if they can perform this problem, they've already learned addition.
If they cannot perform this problem, it says nothing of their ability to perform addition.
And if they cannot perform addition, they will never solve this problem.
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Disclaimer: I'm not a US Elementary School Teacher so I only know about Common Core second hand, but the most objectionable parts seem to be based on teaching mental math shortcuts as The Right Thing To Do.
8 + 5 = 8 + ( 2 + 3) = (8 + 2) + 3 = 10 + 3 = 13
That assumes that every student using this method thinks about numbers the same way. If I was teaching addition to a group of newly minted clones of myself then I would just point out that the green colour of the eights blends with the red flavour of the next five, then wraps around the number line leaving you with a solid sphere with a weight equal to that of a feather (which will be awfully convenient when it tries to pass by Maat and enter Aaru without being devoured by Amnit). Twisting it will reveal the three and the ten which gives you the final answer of thirteen. Turning that sideways, stretching it into a sheet and taking five away from it leaves twelve, and then you can make a triangle with those three numbers. Ooh, look! A squirrel!
Fortunately, I know that that this only makes sense to me. It reminds me of a story I once heard about a woman who was on a road trip with her autistic son. While looking for ways to pass the time he suggested that she recite one of her favourite books.
"Oh, I don't think that I could do that."
"Sure you can, Mom, it's easy", he replied. "You just think of the book, see it in your head and then say the words that are on the page. That's what I do."
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I would just point out that the green colour of the eights blends with the red flavour of the next five,
Synaesthesia is AWESOME.
Filed under: Why yes, i am a little jelly
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I don't literally see color, but I do associate it.
So for me, I think of 1, and think of yellow.
1 doesn't look painted yellow, but 1 definitely produces the color yellow in my mind.
2 is red
3 is green
4 is red, sometimes yellow
and 5 is blueAgain, the numbers don't look colored when I see them, but they make me think of colors.
Must have been some baby toy I played with.
Do people with Synesthesia literally see the numbers as colored (like on the monitor).
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Black 0
Brown 1
Red 2
Orange 3
Yellow 4
Green 5
Blue 6
Violet 7
Gray 8
White 9
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When you look at
2
Does it appear red to you, or does it make you think of the color red?
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Whooshed by popular acclaim. -b
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Shoot 3 of them.
Horrible, horrible, joke time:
How do you keep the neighborhood kids off your lawn?
[spoiler]Molest one of them.[/spoiler]
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Does it appear red to you, or does it make you think of the color red?
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fuck
Does someone here have synesthesia?
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Does someone here have synesthesia?
Or at least a [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2015/03/04/synesthesia-based-alphabet-magnets/]set of fridge magnets[/url]?
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