Petition To Move Off Latest

Polygeekery

If I were more motivated, I would shop this to reflect these forums:

Situation: There are 14 shitty forum softwares out there.
Jeff: We need to make a magnificent AJAXy, Ember.JS, forum software to replace all the other forum software.
Soon: There are 15 shitty forum softwares out there.

HardwareGeek

@Eldelshell said:

I like my software to be the bleeding edge

I'd like the discodevs to be bleeding edge.

Not really; this is a joke, not a threat.

@Eldelshell said:

IT literate whinnying users

I don't whinny. I don't think our vulpine, canine or draconian users do, either.

PleegWat

Are you suggesting we try to get WTForum started?

the_dragon

@HardwareGeek said:

I don't whinny. I don't think our vulpine, canine or draconian users do, either.

Agreed. My dinner whinnies, not me.

CreatedToDislikeThis

[size=5]Never move off Latest![/size]

abarker

@created_just_to_disl said:

Never move off Latest!

Crazy bleeding edge hipster!

accalia

@nightware said:

To me, the Discourse bleeding-edge is part of the entertainment value here... *ducks

/me throws @nightware a cookie.

/aside it's a nice cookie

dcon

@accalia said:

/me throws @nightware a cookie.

/aside it's a nice cookie

blakeyrat

@Magus said:

Wow, you have a lot of faith in these guys.

He didn't say it was a testing suite.

Maybe it's like a... machine that makes ice cream or something.

blakeyrat

@boomzilla said:

One of the best examples of the fail in using a forum as an issue tracker.

Test
This
Shit
Again

I'm starting to think I was insane. Maybe that bug was never fixed. Maybe I was just high on crack cocaine.

blakeyrat

@Eldelshell said:

OTOH, where will Jeff find so many IT literate whinnying whining users as here?

If you guys would stop providing free QA services and helping him out, maybe he'd fuck off and leave us alone.

Zecc

"Free QA services"?

We're just trying to use the forum. It's not like we're actively trying to find bugs.

Magus

To be fair, if anything he's ever done is genius, this is it. We come to this site because we hate bad code and bugs. It's specifically the nature of a frequenter of this site to pick at things until they break.

blakeyrat

@Zecc said:

We're just trying to use the forum. It's not like we're actively trying to find bugs.

Then find them but don't report them or create repros or post on meta or any of the things that gives Atwood free QA services. Like I've been doing.

Monarch

Knowledge Not Shared Is Knowledge Wasted.

Symbiosis relationship is essential for open source projects.

blakeyrat

@Monarch said:

Symbiosis relationship is essential for open source projects.

Discourse isn't an open source project, except in the most technical sense, Discourse is a "we make money while tricking idiots into helping us for free" project.

antiquarian

@powerlord said:

TRWTF is using Latest/Beta releases on a production site.TRRWTF is using a site about WTFs to beta test a product that we didn't have any interest in using in the first place.

I wish I could like this more than once, so +1e1000.

smallshellscript

@blakeyrat said:

I'm starting to think I was insane. Maybe that bug was never fixed. Maybe I was just high on crack cocaine.

You say that as if all three of those things can't be true at once.

If a bug can be regressed due to changes in unrelated code, is it even truly fixed? Or is it simply masked like putting a bookcase in front of the giant hole in the wall so that your landlord doesn't see it?

Monarch

@blakeyrat said:

Discourse is an open source project, in the technical sense.
Discourse is a "we make money while tricking idiots into helping us for free" project.

Discourse is a commercial project that is also open source and "free". ( in the technical sense of course)

Yes the model does use free crowd sourcing for both free QA and R&D, which you refer to as "tricking idiots into helping us for free".

The free tier / beta tester. provide free labor ( in the technical sense)

Those idiots get a product for free, They help improve this product for free by many different forms: a bug report, complaining, just using the features, etc. By doing so they actually help discourse survive and make more money.
(The only reason I would not want them to make more money is if I was a competitor, not because I dislike how they do things)

The side effect is that the idiots that are willing to contribute their time and effort eventually get their own reward which is mainly having a better experience, better conversation, or just an illusion.

my definition of idiot
If a person provide labor, and get satisfactory reward: Not an idiot
if the person provide labor and get no reward: Not an idiot. if continues to provide the labor An idiot

In any relationship no side is ever driven by pure altruism. from my humbly experience/opinion.

I respect your point of view as well, if personally you don't see any reward in providing free labor. Then your decisions is 100% justified.

If other people are willing to do that job and they feel like they are getting the reward - I would just let them do it.
One day when I start my own open source project, I am going to trick you all in providing me free QA and PR.

The service the people( the free tier) provide is extremely important to this kind of a projects and business model to grow.

blakeyrat

@Monarch said:

Yes the model does use free crowd sourcing for both free QA and R&D, which you refer to as "tricking idiots into helping us for free".

Right; because that's what it is.

@Monarch said:

By doing so they actually help discourse survive and make more money.

Why would you want the makers of this piece of shit to make any money? If there were any justice in the world, they'd be jeered out of the industry and never work in software development again.

@Monarch said:

The side effect is that the idiots that are willing to contribute their time and effort eventually get their own reward which is mainly having a better experience, better conversation, or just an illusion.

"just an illusion" = they are idiots, and also delusional.

@Monarch said:

I respect your point of view as well, if personally you don't see any reward in providing free labor.

I don't have a problem providing free labor. I have a problem providing free labor to: 1) a shitty product, 2) whose creators make money (no matter how indirectly) off my labor.

If I report a bug and chase it down and put in a quality report and they "fix" it (meaning, maybe it happens a bit less, or maybe they fixed it and broken something else, etc), what is my reward? Money? No. Pride? No. I can't feel proud of that shit, nobody (sane) wants their name attached to this. Delusion is about all you're gonna get.

@Monarch said:

If other people are willing to do that job and they feel like they are getting the reward - I would just let them do it.

But I want less Discourse in the universe. Helping make Discourse better does not advance that goal.

@Monarch said:

The service the people( the free tier) provide is extremely important to this kind of a projects and business model to grow.

The business model being, "we make money while tricking idiots into helping us for free". Yes, I know.

blakeyrat

EXTRA SUPER BONUS!

When mocking that screenshot, I found that fake-o dialog is anchored to the bottom of the window, not the top. So if you resize, you get:

If I were inclined to help Discourse devs out, I might point out that it's extremely possible for the Discourse window to be resized as a background tab, meaning the user (when switching back to its tab) could very well see a greyed-out UI with no dialog or other indication as to why. But instead, fuck them.

Monarch

You know when you scroll down, on and on, aka Infinite Scroll, Did you know that each chunk of posts that is being loaded contains the entire posts array(list of ids). For the T1000, every time you scroll and new posts are loaded an array with ~31K items is being sent over and over.

If I were inclined to help I would have reported that too, but I don't waste my time doing it. if they want they can find that by themselves.

also performance is not high priority of the platform.

riking

I noticed that, too, but didn't feel like putting in the work to fix it...

It's also not the worst waste of space in the json responses.

Monarch

in the spirit of fixing stuff, but not reporting it, can you find out why there is a loop timer event for this method. every 250ms

/*
 * jQuery resize event - v1.1 - 3/14/2010
 * http://benalman.com/projects/jquery-resize-plugin/
 * 
 * Copyright (c) 2010 "Cowboy" Ben Alman
 * Dual licensed under the MIT and GPL licenses.
 * http://benalman.com/about/license/
 */

(function($, h, c) {
    var a = $([]), e = $.resize = $.extend($.resize, {}), i, k = "setTimeout", j = "resize", d = j + "-special-event", b = "delay", f = "throttleWindow";
    e[b] = 250;
    e[f] = true;
    $.event.special[j] = {setup: function() {
            if (!e[f] && this[k]) {
                return false
            }
            var l = $(this);
            a = a.add(l);
            $.data(this, d, {w: l.width(),h: l.height()});
            if (a.length === 1) {
                g()
            }
        },teardown: function() {
            if (!e[f] && this[k]) {
                return false
            }
            var l = $(this);
            a = a.not(l);
            l.removeData(d);
            if (!a.length) {
                clearTimeout(i)
            }
        },add: function(l) {
            if (!e[f] && this[k]) {
                return false
            }
            var n;
            function m(s, o, p) {
                var q = $(this), r = $.data(this, d);
                r.w = o !== c ? o : q.width();
                r.h = p !== c ? p : q.height();
                n.apply(this, arguments)
            }
            if ($.isFunction(l)) {
                n = l;
                return m
            } else {
                n = l.handler;
                l.handler = m
            }
        }};
    function g() {
        i = h[k](function() {
            a.each(function() {
                var n = $(this), m = n.width(), l = n.height(), o = $.data(this, d);
                if (m !== o.w || l !== o.h) {
                    n.trigger(j, [o.w = m, o.h = l])
                }
            });
            g()
        }, e[b])
    }
})(jQuery, this);

The blue line is the heap after each timer event.

monkeyArms

@Monarch said:

can you find out why there is a loop timer event for this method. every 250ms

Because the devs wanted to know when an element has been resized, and they wanted it to be IE 6-8 compatible? :)

riking

@Monarch said:

event.special

looks like it's core ember code, have fun

Monarch

@riking said:

looks like it's core ember code, have fun

I Did

Nprz

I have to agree with blakeyrat here.

Also if we stop providing our services and other people get to hit these problems (seriously some other forum is bound to hit than font-size issue before it reaches stable & we upgrade to that stable), then maybe we are a bit happier (i.e. less complaining) and we don't have to dogfood shit.
If paying customers end up hitting all these bugs, maybe they'll stop paying and maybe we end up with some other forum (and that will be better than this).

Feels like they want us to feel good about this.
Would you eat shit? No. How about if it is free? Uhh...

Keith

@loopback0 said:

This is fucking unusable on mobile now.

Not even wanting to reply to this post, but the Reply button won't load.

Agreed. I had to give up on reading the forums on my phone this morning and find other sites to keep me entertained on the commute.

Is it the ember update which has screwed things up so badly?

aliceif

@nightware said:

Discourse bleeding-edge is part of the entertainment value here

:hocho: :hand:

boomzilla

https://meta.discourse.org/t/highly-unstable-on-chromium/23211/2?u=boomzilla

@cpradio, please elaborate on, "Since we aren't on latest, you probably won't get much help on this."

http://i.imgur.com/fOQt8ms.gif

ijij

Okaaaay....

The fact that that screenshot turns out to be a video clip on loop just completely freaked me out.

Good thing I'm not wearing dry-clean only pants.

(inb4: but, yes, I am wearing some kind of pants. :scowl: )

boomzilla

@ijij said:

The fact that that screenshot turns out to be a video clip on loop just completely freaked me out.

But you can see his frustration coming through the movement of the mouse, right? Better than a blakeyrant.

accalia

@ijij said:

(inb4: but, yes, I am wearing some kind of pants. :scowl: )

skirts< pants < dress < no pants

but that's just my opinion. ;-)

ijij

Oddly my employer prefers that we wear leg coverings (for me, pants. My claymore is at the smithy for maintenance.)

Not oddly, I prefer that my co-workers wear leg coverings, so it's only fair that I do so as well.

accalia

oh. we're talking in an office environment

that changes my rankings

pants ⋙ jeans ⋙ Long skirts ⋙ anything else to be worn in the south of the waistline region

(note, that in both rankings the rankings are unisex ;-))

ijij

On topic ( ),

IMHO the bug-fixing seems like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...

...or there was Bugs Bunny/Yosemite Sam episode where Bugs keeps grabbing rocks from Sam's dam, and Sam keeps running around shoving rocks to plug leaks.

TLDR: I think there's deep underlying issues.

The folks here are programmers and see any set of tools as things to be re-arranged and toyed with - probably nobody is stressing Discourse like TDWTF.

We're gonna break any version they give us. Might as well be the daily build.

I'm not starting an anti-petition - but I'm not signing, I'm morbidly curious to see how badly things are "fixed".

So I guess I just walked into a posted area, but really doing the opposite of what's posted.

Revoke my Concealed Opinion Permit - I am a Richard.

Oh, look, it renders one way in preview and differntly IRL

Yamikuronue

@accalia said:

pants ⋙ jeans ⋙ Long skirts

This is funnier if you use the British meaning of "pants"

accalia

@Yamikuronue said:

This is funnier if you use the British meaning of "pants"

should i have used trousers to avoid ambiguity? ;-)

ijij

@accalia said:

should i have used trousers to avoid ambiguity? ;-)

No.

aliceif

@blakeyrat said:

When mocking that screenshot, I found that fake-o dialog is anchored to the bottom of the window, not the top.

As seen on many phones in landscape ...

abarker

@blakeyrat said:

EXTRA SUPER BONUS!

When mocking that screenshot, I found that fake-o dialog is anchored to the bottom of the window, not the top. So if you resize, you get:

Edit: We lost our WTF emoji?!

Edit2: Damn emoji case sensitivity. :facepunch:

abarker

@monkeyArms said:

Because the devs wanted to know when an element has been resized, and they wanted it to be IE 6-8 compatible?

Hmm ... my WTF sense is tingling ...

abarker

@accalia said:

skirts< pants < dress < no pants

but that's just my opinion. ;-)

Just curious: why don't skirts fit next to dresses on your scale?

abarker

@accalia said:

oh. we're talking in an office environment

that changes my rankings

pants ⋙ jeans ⋙ Long skirts ⋙ anything else to be worn in the south of the waistline region

(note, that in both rankings the rankings are unisex ;-))

Where do kilts fit in there? ;)