Jeffed Car Talk - Now with Trainwrecks, Formerly with Manual Gearboxes
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You know what's cool? Electric cars. They don't need no stinking transmissions.
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From what I remember of driving manual, changing gear/clutch control required so little conscious thought it was basically automatic, other than an executive-level "I need to change into 4th now" intention.
Congratulations, you have illustrated the difference between "learning a thing" and "knowing a thing".
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You know what's cool? Electric cars. They don't need no stinking transmissions.
Pre-WWII tanks that used a gasoline or diesel engine to power a dynamo which then powered electric motors on the caterpillars were said to have an "electric transmission". Kind of hard to argue with their logic.
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You know what's cool? Electric cars. They don't need no stinking transmissions.
You do know the motor is geared down, right? That's a transmission. One-speed (plus reverse), but it's still a transmission.And Formula E cars have 6-speed transmissions
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I thought I was illustrating a difference between myself and @anonymous234, but, hey, tyranny of the written word et al...
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but I think I only got it into gear once without using the clutch, but it wasn't exactly something I attempted often.
my first car was a Fiat 128. once, the clutch cable got cut. so i had to get back to my house without it. boy, that was a fun ride. you just have to match the speeds.
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And they have "Insane mode" buttons:
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¿? i've actually done it. it's not easy nor good to the transmission. but it can be done
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I meant that you don't need to match anything, not that it can't be done (I was the first to point out about this feature of manual cars) at any speed/RPMs
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Hard is to shift gears (up or down) without clutching.
Not really. I used to shift my cars quite frequently without clutching. Upshifts and downshifts. It is not that difficult, but I would suggest that most people not try it...
It is not even that hard to take off without clutching, provided you are sitting on a downhill grade and can get up to idle speed before sliding it in to gear.
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You're an old dog, kids this day don't even know it can be done.
It actually was my father who taught me this so it's the parents fault once again
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i need my glasses.
i think that my 128 didn't had syncromesh.
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Not really. I used to shift my cars quite frequently without clutching.
I think I'll stick to declutching properly; save shredding the dog gears
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You're an old dog, kids this day don't even know it can be done.
In fairness, I grew up in mines. I learned early on how to drive an old twin-stick Mack. I also had my CDLs for many years. It became habit.
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i need my glasses. i think that my 128 didn't had syncromesh.
Neither do heavy trucks, and you shift them without a clutch. ;)
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I think I'll stick to declutching properly; save shredding the dog gears
Only if you do it wrong.
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And they have "Insane mode" buttons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUWqYAcNP_I
So insane it gets beaten by a slightly-modded Stingray?
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Using a manual transmission is pretty simple; shouldn't take more than one lesson to get the hang of it. Can be a bit of a bugger matching revs on the downshift though
I have a few friends who keep trying to sell me on the virtues of a manual transmission (e.g. "You become one with the machine, dude" or "It feels like you're more in control.") Occasionally, they dig out the old canards about efficiency/gas mileage, or about how "slushboxes" are slow to shift. These all seem like arguments of passion. Personally, I can't see why they clutch to such old technology.
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I can't see why they clutch to such old technology.
Did you write that whole post just to make that pun? :-)
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In my experience, it practically never comes-up.
I'm sure I'll be labelled "worst driver on Earth" but I generally just used the clutch and breaked to the new speed, then found the right gear to match it and synchromeshed that fucker.
Try driving in mountains. There, the rule is "same gear going down as when you went up". Using your brakes will only mean that you no longer have them when you really need them at the bottom of the hill.
On flat country: If you are able to use the engine to break, you generally end up with a much smoother ride than if you use your brake all the time. Besides, if you brake first, then clutch, shift gears, match revs, and de-clutch your engine helps with the braking, you end up using energy more effiiently, and don't have to replace your brake pads once every other month. But I guess that is considered normal wear and tear for a windows user?
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I have a few friends who keep trying to sell me on the virtues of a manual transmission
Modern autos are miles ahead of autos from a few years back though.
As I said above, I'll be going from manual to auto when I change car next year.
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Personally, I can't see why they clutch to such old technology.
Just more bitter clutchers.
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Occasionally, they dig out the old canards about efficiency/gas mileage, or about how "slushboxes" are slow to shift.
The last time I drove automatic, it was quite nice but had a tendency to use a bit lower gear than I liked. I had the advantage of knowing that the road was relatively flat and empty, I suppose.
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A manual has no (or at least fewer) electronics, which makes repairs much simpler and less costly.
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I started driving very recently and I already broke the 2nd gear shift synchro on the very old car I'm driving. It sucks because now if I need to downshift from 3rd I need to match the revs almost aggressively, so I mostly punish the car by forcing 3rd in situations where I should downshift because fuck breaking almost to a standstill just to pull 2nd.
Next time if I'm buying a car I'm looking for an automatic for sure. They're not very common here and driving manual is fun, but it gets dumb in city traffic.
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very old car
The synchro was probably weak already; it would have failed at some point
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I know, but it doesn't help being a novice driver and making all sorts of mistakes like riding the clutch and not pushing down on the clutch pedal enough. The fact that it broke so fast taught me quite quickly though.
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Have you tried double clutching?
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I just looked it up on Wikipedia. Sounds like sorta what I was doing without the letting go of the clutch in neutral, so I guess I should give it a try.
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In the UK we learn manual as standard.
Well you can learn in an automatic, but then your license is restricted to automatic.Bullshit. I got my driving license about a year ago and handling the gears and clutch required like 90% of my attention. Fuck manual transmissions.
It gets easy really, really quickly. A lot quicker than handling roundabouts or joining a motorway via slipway. Other than steep hill starts and clutch control for moving at sub-first-gear speed, it's not really harder to get the hang of the clutch and gears than it is to get the hang of turning the wheel the right amount.Hard is to shift gears (up or down) without clutching.
I've never tried that, but sometimes my hand moves faster than my foot going from first to second, and I realise I got the new gear in while the pedal was only halfway down. It seems to work fine, but I was always good at quick gear changes. My driving instructor once told me after I'd started on a hill in third and needed second halfway up that he'd checked there was no car behind and was intending to let me stall when I tried to change down, to teach me a lesson. He also used to tell me to change gear more slowly, but I have to think about it if I do it slowly.
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@anonymous234 said:
Bullshit. I got my driving license about a year ago and handling the gears and clutch required like 90% of my attention. Fuck manual transmissions.
It gets easy really, really quickly. A lot quicker than handling roundabouts or joining a motorway via slipway. Other than steep hill starts and clutch control for moving at sub-first-gear speed, it's not really harder to get the hang of the clutch and gears than it is to get the hang of turning the wheel the right amount.
QFT.You'd be surprised how quickly you get the feel for a proper manual.
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I just looked it up on Wikipedia. Sounds like sorta what I was doing without the letting go of the clutch in neutral, so I guess I should give it a try.
That will help.
Love driving manual.
As a kid, something in the alternator/battery/etc system croaked and my Pa
jump startededjumpstarted the old Bug - "12V to 6V - it'll be fine!"So, I got quite adept at hill-starting that car...
although, trying to start backing downhill in the carpark was... disturbing.Mum's car was auto, but the brake was Set Up Wrong™, and I couldn't get the leverage I wanted with the right foot - so I ended up driving automatics goofy-footed - still do.
EDIT: curses, my spelling
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Try driving in mountains. There, the rule is "same gear going down as when you went up". Using your brakes will only mean that you no longer have them when you really need them at the bottom of the hill.
Somehow, I guess a God-granted miracle, I crossed the Cascades a million times in my manual transmission cars and never once had a problem. I guess there were like 40 miracle angels hanging on to my bumper and helping me out.
Besides, if you brake first, then clutch, shift gears, match revs, and de-clutch your engine helps with the braking, you end up using energy more effiiently, and don't have to replace your brake pads once every other month. But I guess that is considered normal wear and tear for a windows user?
Huh?
Windows users change brake pads more often? Are you insane, or is this the world's worst joke?
A manual has no (or at least fewer) electronics,
Pretty sure that's not true.
which makes repairs much simpler and less costly.
Replacing a clutch on a front-wheel-drive manual is super-expensive. Guess how expensive it is to do that repair in an automatic? It's zero. Zero expensive.
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Replacing a clutch on a front-wheel-drive manual is super-expensive. Guess how expensive it is to do that repair in an automatic? It's zero. Zero expensive.
Replacing the torque converter though…
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Are you insane, or is this the world's worst joke?
Why did the chicken shift into second?
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Mum's car was auto, but the brake was Set Up Wrong™, and I couldn't get the leverage I wanted with the right foot - so I ended up driving automatics goofy-footed - still do.
When I drive automatics I keep on doing engine-brake going from D -> 2 -> 1 -> N
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Other than steep hill starts and clutch control for moving at sub-first-gear speed, it's not really harder to get the hang of the clutch and gears than it is to get the hang of turning the wheel the right amount.
Steep hill starts are no problem. Or at least not after the first few lessons round where I live they aren't, where if you can't do a hill start you end up going nowhere very rapidly. We might not have much in the way of mountains in England, but we've got some reasonable hills (as in “count as a mountain stage in the Tour de France” reasonable ;)).
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We might not have much in the way of mountains in England
Apart from the Pennines.Yes it is a mountain range. Just not a very tall one.
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Replacing the torque converter though…
Never even heard of having to have that done. Whereas clutches have to be replaced every 80k miles or so. It's on the goddamned maintenance schedule.
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[quote=lolwhat]
A manual has no (or at least fewer) electronics,
Pretty sure that's not true.
[/quote]
Silly me. How could I forget about all of those motorcycles with electronic manual transmissions‽
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Apart from the Pennines.
Yes it is a mountain range. Just not a very tall one.
Pah! It's just hills. I live in them; they're just hills. Hills with glacier-cut valleys between them with very steep sides. If you want mountains, try the Lake District.
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Silly me. How could I forget about all of those motorcycles with electronic manual transmissions‽
Ok, first of all you fucking idiot, this is the car thread not the motorcycle bullshit go away thread.
Secondly, are you making the insane claim that manual transmission cars do not have car computers?
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you fucking idiot
@blakeyrat said:are you making the insane claim that manual transmission cars do not have car computers?
Here, allow me to help you read for content:
@lolwhat said:A manual has no (or at least fewer) electronics
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Secondly, are you making the insane claim that manual transmission cars do not have car computers?
I think he's just claiming that the manual transmission system is not under the control of the computer; there will be sensors present, but there's no actuators. The theory is that this makes it simpler and cheaper to replace the parts. (I don't know if the theory is borne out by facts.)
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My instructor avoided steep hills until I'd got the hang of the basics, although the first time I ever got into the driver's seat of a car was on enough of an incline to need to follow hill-start procedure.
Naturally, I stalled it the first time. And then when I turned it back on one of the warning lights came on, this being about two minutes after the whole talk about what the things on the dashboard mean and that if any of those lights come on you need to stop because it's not safe to drive.
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Here, allow me to help you read for content:
Hey moron, I understand what you typed, I'm trying to figure out what you mean and/or whether it's even slightly true.
Why don't you provide some evidence that, due to a reduced number of elecronic components, a manual is cheaper to service? Any evidence at all?
Because the fact that your "fewer electronic components" manual has an expensive clutch replacement in the maintenance schedule and automatics have nothing of the sort doesn't seem to help make your case any. Nor does my personal experience with both types of car bear it out.
I think he's just claiming that the manual transmission system is not under the control of the computer; there will be sensors present, but there's no actuators.
Well ok, but since the actuators in an automatic last forever (or at least long enough that they're not on the maintenance schedule), and the clutch in a manual does not, I don't see how his statement could possibly be true.
The theory is that this makes it simpler and cheaper to replace the parts. (I don't know if the theory is borne out by facts.)
You know what's even cheaper than non-electronic parts? Not having to replace them at all. Which is what happens when you drive an automatic.
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As I see it:
- Manual transmissions => vim
- Automatic transmissions => Word
- Semiautomatic transmissions => Sublime Text
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clutches have to be replaced every 80k miles or so. It's on the maintenance schedule.
Not on the maintenance schedules for my (manually transmitted) cars.
Borne out by experience: 3 cars - 550k miles driven - no clutches.
Filed under: of course one person's experience is proof.
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Once you get the feeling of when you need to step on the throttle for a smooth start hill starting is almost never different from a regular start. Granted, I live in a flat country so I don't encounter that situation a lot, but I've never had issues once I got the feel for depressing the clutch.
I did, however, skid the wheels on an incline on one occasion while in a hurry -- I hadn't let go of the clutch enough to engage the gear and the throttle was too high.
