Conversations overheard
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"those who have most, spend least"
"I didn't get rich by writing a bunch of checks" as I have often told a friend of mine.
Recently, I was told "You're the biggest non-Jew Jew I've never met!"
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Stop assuming people are logical in their spending habits.
And this is why behavioral economics is separated from theoretical (and is far more interesting).
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Anything I or my coworkers do in Linux pretty much starts with the sudo command, so same thing there. It's not really secure when everyone does everything as root.
I was burned by this on one of my first experiences playing with Linux. I'd just installed Ububtu and to get a grip on how it worked I decided to see how it stacked up against Windows in my most common use for this computer - media playback. I googled for XBMC Linux and found the official wiki at http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=How-to:Install_XBMC_for_Linux. Being from the Windows world I was expecting a package to download and run, but saw no nice big download link, just a set of commands to type in, all beginning with sudo.
I knew enough about Unix/Linux to know that sudo gives root access, so I would basically have been pasting in a command where all I knew was that it could do anything. At that point I gave up and booted back into my Windows partition.
Later I discovered apt get and the Ubuntu GUI package manager, but that was enough to sour my view on people who say "this is easy, just run these commands. No I won't tell you what they do"
I think these illustrate the distinction doesn't mean as much as you think/thought (considering subsequent replies) it means
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So this conversation is going on again? Really?
First, suggesting that the majority of mac users are in any way technically proficient is less accurate than saying all mac users are neckbeards, skinny women with platelet deficiencies and the fat women who would rather be (either of) them. Mac users are idiots, first and foremost. This usually keeps them from trouble since Apple is good at keeping everyone in the plastic balls pen.
The ones that get into trouble are the mildly technically proficient. They are at the stage in their technical knowledge equivalent to guys that just learned that putting their dicks into things is fun. So they go ahead and do so...enthusiastically. And when their dicks get stuck without being ripped off they end up having to call a genius who ends up selling them a replacement dick. And maybe, if they're lucky, some lube.
That's not to say MS isn't guilty of bending over forwards and spreading its cheeks for Enterprise customers, leaving everyone else with a mess to clean up. They are, after all, being paid real well to do so.
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Mac users are idiots, first and foremost
No, some of us are cunts. You're an idiot, though. Wanna buy a mac?
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No, some of us are cunts. You're an idiot, though. Wanna buy a mac?
So it's OK if I rephrase that as "most Mac users are idiots, while some of them are cunts?" I wouldn't want to be inaccurate in a post in which I compare technical skill to penis usage, and Microsoft's customer relations to scat.
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Fortunately there are some of us in the category of technically proficient and capable enough to not get into trouble in the first place, but if we do we can get ourselves out of trouble.
Sent from my MacBook Pro currently running Windows 7.
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Less Macs than PC-s. So, it's a less enticing target. If you are a virus maker, and want to target blindly, it pays up better to go after Windows than Mac
Just because it's targeted less doesn't mean it is actually more secure. If
iMacOS suddenly met or surpassed Windows in market share, I'm sure that there would be a sudden surge in malware targeting Macs.Richer, technically more literate user base.
Richer, generally. Technically more literate? I wouldn't say so. I've got a co-worker who started with an iPhone, switched to Android, and is going back to iPhone because she doesn't like how configurable Android is.
I also had a boss call me into his office once to fix the screen resolution on his Mac (in his words, "The icons are too big"). I got a Klondike bar for that one.
They are less likely to chase torrents, iffy links.
Umm, evidence?
More likely to get their software from App Store (there's no equivalent for Windows).
Well, until Windows 8 anyway. Personally, I think the ability to shop around for the best price is a great bonus on Windows.
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They are less likely to chase torrents, iffy links.
Changing quote to be a dick.
I would say that mac photoshop, flash (the creator version), and music software suites are probably torrented as much / more as the windows variants.
Movies/music too, but probably not nearly as much software for the simple fact that software doesn't exist for mac in the same quantity as windows. (IE: cracked games that tend to be virus ridden)
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Rich means they are not gonna click on links like "free smuggled pills!" or "cracked keymaker haxxxor!!!". They are gonna go to app store and buy stuff.
Not necessarily. Some rich people are rich because they are careful where they spend their money. Some of them might go for free options over paid options just to save a few bucks.
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Then you deserve what you get. You turned off all the safety features, so it's your fault when you die in a fire. The problem is that assholes* like you perpetuate the myth that Windows is still insecure.
The WTF office I work in turns it off for everybody using Group Policy.
I actually put a little VBScript in my Startup folder to turn it back on. (The domain only enforces policy during boot here, so you can "undo" the idiotic stuff they disable. Like the logging on Office Communicator with a little startup scripting.)
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I also had a boss call me into his office once to fix the screen resolution on his Mac (in his words, "The icons are too big"). I got a Klondike bar for that one
Now we know the answer!
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Why would anyone write a virus for Macs when you can easily just socially engineer your way into everyone's account?
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Just because it's targeted less doesn't mean it is actually more secure. If iOS suddenly met or surpassed Windows in market share, I'm sure that there would be a sudden surge in malware targeting Macs.
MacOS, not iOS. But yeah, exactly the point. Security through obscurity.
Umm, evidence?
Ok, evidence Windows users are the biggest cheapskates:
Look at the per-platform stats.
Well, until Windows 8 anyway. Personally, I think the ability to shop around for the best price is a great bonus on Windows.
Heh, you're under impression I like the Mac model. I don't. The point is simply that, right now, a Mac user is statistically much less likely to get into virus related trouble than Win user. And that chance is rapidly decreasing for both.
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MacOS, not iOS.
Corrected for the pedant.
But yeah, exactly the point. Security through obscurity.
Umm, not through obscurity. Security through obscurity is when you make something secure by trying to obscure how it works. This is more like security through low ROI.
Ok, evidence Windows users are the biggest cheapskates:
Look at the per-platform stats.
There are multiple possible factors for this. For example, does that chart take into account the market penetration of each platform, or are they raw stats? If raw stats, then it indicates nothing about the percentage of cheapskates on each platform.
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Umm, not through obscurity. Security through obscurity is when you make something secure by trying to obscure how it works. This is more like security through low ROI.
Who's the pendant now?
There are multiple possible factors for this. For example, does that chart take into account the market penetration of each platform, or are they raw stats? If raw stats, then it indicates nothing about the percentage of cheapskates on each platform.
I believe it's "the number of people who said they are user of platform X" / "total money they paid". Take it for what's it worth.
It's strange there's such resistance to the idea that people willing to pay premium for a needlessly expensive computer are on average more willing to buy needlessly expensive accessories too. Is that so hard to believe?
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Not necessarily. Some rich people are rich because they are careful where they spend their money. Some of them might go for free options over paid options just to save a few bucks.
Yeah, there's nothing as good as watching someone who makes the equivalent of $200+/hour trying to figure out how to find their USB picture stick in whatever flavor of Linux they were talked into.
Rich people are rich and stay rich by spending their money wisely, not carefully. No one who's rich off the labor of their time can afford to spend carefully and go for free options just to save a few bucks.
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I once shot a man in Reno.
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The myth of *nix security was seriously mentioned! Back in 2003 I would agree, but everything since 7 has been rock solid and requires the user to either escalate via UAC or they have uac turned off.
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Just to make a terrible rhyming joke?
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Your point of reference is a pay what you want game site, where the primary purchasers for windows are probably younger kids that have begged their parents to buy it for them?
I would venture most mac/linux users are older, ie: 20-35 range, who probably have some money. Not to mention the types of games available are different for windows/linux/mac, availability + price + demographic is a big thing.
Additionally, how do the stats fall out for contributions to Devs / Humble bundle / Charity? (Work blocks HB.com)
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Who's the pendant now?
Now accepting flags for pedantry.
I believe it's "the number of people who said they are user of platform X" / "total money they paid". Take it for what's it worth.
So the stats have not been scaled to relate to overall market penetration of the various platforms. In other words, these stats do nothing to support your claim that Windows users are bigger cheapskates than MacOS and *nix users.
It's strange there's such resistance to the idea that people willing to pay premium for a needlessly expensive computer are on average more willing to buy needlessly expensive accessories too. Is that so hard to believe?
Yes. When purchasing a Mac, many people do so for one of three reasons:
- It's what they're familiar with (this is the case with my brother-in-law). People in this category shell out the extra money because they believe it's worth not spending the time to learn a new OS.
- Due to previous Mac ads, they believe that Macs are completely secure. These people are willing to shell out for this additional perceived benefit.
- Whether from actual experience, or just "common knowledge", they believe that MacOS is simpler and easier to use. This group of people are willing to shell out the extra money to make things easier.
Of course there are other reasons, but these three probably cover a lot of cases. Anyway, if they find a scenario where they are evaluating two software products that do exactly the same job, and neither has a perceived advantage over the other; if one costs 10% less, they will buy the cheaper option.
This point applies directly to your humblebundle example. The games on humblebundle are no different from what is available through other channels, it's just cheaper. THe only barrier to using humblebundle is knowing about it.
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Yeah, there's nothing as good as watching someone who makes the equivalent of $200+/hour trying to figure out how to find their USB picture stick in whatever flavor of Linux they were talked into.
Rich people are rich and stay rich by spending their money wisely, not carefully. No one who's rich off the labor of their time can afford to spend carefully and go for free options just to save a few bucks.
Fair point. I should have said "cheaper options" instead of "free options".
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I don't know one single mac user in real life who bought their mac for any perceived security benefit. It's always style preference.
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Ah, yes, that's another big group I should have mentioned.
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Yeah, there's nothing as good as watching someone who makes the equivalent of $200+/hour trying to figure out how to find their USB picture stick in whatever flavor of Linux they were talked into.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're stuck in one of those time pods @blakeyrat keeps talking about. KDE and Gnome both automount USB devices, and will optionally open a file manager for you. This is even true if you use one of the hardcore distros like Slackware.
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you've already demonstrated you are willing to spend frivolously by buying Mac.
How does that follow? Spending frivolously is buying something you donât need â like, say, fifty pairs of shoes (I have this feeling there are plenty of people whoâd dispute that example too). If youâre arguing that, because the average Mac is more expensive than the average Windows PC, buying a Mac is frivolous spending, then so is buying a pen, since you can get pens for free by the boatload, or going to eat at a restaurant instead of buying all your food at Aldi, Lidl or whatever your local equivalent is.Spending money on a computer, like a lot of other things, is based on more than just âWhat will it cost?â A lot of people will simply buy the cheapest, for any number of reasons, but plenty of Windows users buy machines far more powerful than they need simply because ⊠well, I donât know, probably just because theyâve been indoctrinated that bigger numbers are better. âOf course weâll get a quad-core with 16 GB of memory and an SSD! No matter that all weâll do on it is write e-mails to the grandkids in Australia and read web pages that would render just as well on a 15-year-old machine ⊠â This is not something you can hold against Mac users, if you ask me, because plenty of Windows users as just as âguiltyâ of it too â the only real difference is that if you buy Windows, you have the choice to get a low-end machine, which you donât with a Mac. But using that as an argument is like telling people they canât drive a Mercedes because a Lada is cheaper.
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Re Mac vs PC demographics. OK, whatever. I'm not gonna run around, trying to build some kind of scientific case. That's not fun for me.
I'll just drop this in. Not part of the argument, just an interesting graphic produced by my one google search.
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Interesting, according to that info-graphic, Windows users are more willing to fit in, but believe that each person is more unique than alike, while the opposite is true for Mac users.
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Macs are 80% more likely to be vegetarians. So we can probably explain their mental state by iron deficiencies.
<yes I do believe everything in that graphic
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Ok, so 20 or 30 years ago Macs weren't that great. I don't see how that disputes the point that the wide majority of Mac users today don't use anti-virus nor have any need to.
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Anything I or my coworkers do in Linux pretty much starts with the sudo command
What on earth sort of stuff are you doing that requires sudo all the time?
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Microsoft has improved, but *nix is still a more secure base platform
TRWTF is writing an OS that gives total access to any kind of buffer overflow by default. I wouldn't be surprised if much of their patchwork is bloat code of "Catch if's" on various stack overflow conditions instead of just fixing the dam kernel.
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What on earth sort of stuff are you doing that requires sudo all the time?
We build hardware boards and write device drivers and an SDK for them. I don't know much about the Linux side of the project, but I do know that most of the compilation and testing procedures require root access.
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Because people are stupid and will download apps that steal all their data just so they can watch the dancing kitties.
There was a time in my consulting-side career where I made decent money cleaning up PCs for exactly this reason.
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What would you doooooo, for a klondike bar?
Would you lick an iPhone that was recently used to play Angry Birds by a man taking a crap in an airport bathroom?
Filed Under: [spoiler]Way worse than killing someone[/spoiler]
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...but I do know that most of the compilation and testing procedures require root access.
Sounds like whomever set up the Linux side of things is TRWTF.
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hmm...
[spoiler] @ i wonder.....[/spoiler]
@Matcheshmm...
[spoiler] @ i wonder.....[/spoiler]
@Matchesit can't even be broken consistently, what the hell man.
DICSOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURSE
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I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're stuck in one of those time pods @blakeyrat keeps talking about. KDE and Gnome both automount USB devices, and will optionally open a file manager for you. This is even true if you use one of the hardcore distros like Slackware.
It was true not too long ago. Still, if you want, I can claim to hold to a journalistic form of argument: it's not that my points are actually true or accurate, it's that they argue towards a greater truthiness.
There was a time in my consulting-side career where I made decent money cleaning up PCs for exactly this reason.
"I don't know how that virus got on here!"
Checks internet history for torrent, long list of pages appear."I don't know why the computer won't work! It must have been something you did! Remember when you said you'd improve it a bit."
"So it broke right after I worked on it?"
"No, but how else would it have stopped working."
Turns out AHCI was switched to IDE in the BIOS -- on an SSD equipped machine. Checks internet history, finds sites which purport IDE is faster than AHCI and how to change it.Free software (legal or not) is like free advice. Sometimes it's a deal, other times it's too expensive.
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This. Compiling shouldn't ever require root access. Testing, maybe, as they'd need to load the drivers.
Of course, writing closed source drivers for Linux is its own wtf as the driver interface changes whenever.
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Sent from my MacBook Pro currently running Windows 7.
+1
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Nothing like a comic that sort-of applies but makes an 8 years obsolete technology comparison as the punchline.
I suppose it's even more of a punchline in hindsight.
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Would you lick an iPhone that was recently used to play Angry Birds by a man taking a crap in an airport bathroom?
<hr>Filed Under: [spoiler]<a>Way worse than killing someone</a>[/spoiler]Filed under: kernel panic
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I like how the image in the one-boxing isn't a link.
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Then you deserve what you get. You turned off all the safety features, so it's your fault when you die in a fire. The problem is that assholes* like you perpetuate the myth that Windows is still insecure.
The WTF office I work in turns it off for everybody using Group Policy.
Cue @CodingHorrorBot with appropriate visual avatar!
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@redwizard Is Doing It Wrongâą<t3268p97>
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It was true not too long ago.
That's only because of the time pod.
Still, if you want, I can claim to hold to a journalistic form of argument: it's not that my points are actually true or accurate, it's that they argue towards a greater truthiness.
Well, that's just great. We weren't getting nearly enough of that sort of thing from the resident Social Justice Warriors.
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On the contrary, they were great despite having tons of viruses. Now they kind of suck.
Humble Bundle
Prickly City by Scott Stantis for April 20, 2006 | GoComics.com
