The Official Status Thread
-
So to ask a dumb question on this thread, right now the piping is designed for a standard tank electric water heater-- if I install a tankless (which all seem to be designed to be mounted on a wall, not 2' away from a wall), would that all have to be re-plumbed? Or is there some way of fitting a tankless water heater where a tank one used to be?
Right now I'm Googling around (due to not having access to source control at work), and I'm not seeing any solution to this obvious problem. Not to mention the tankless ones are much more expensive, and it seems like they don't run well on electric (I don't have gas piped into my house), so I'm leaning towards a traditional tank heater even if it's less efficient.
-
So to ask a dumb question on this thread, right now the piping is designed for a standard tank electric water heater-- if I install a tankless (which all seem to be designed to be mounted on a wall, not 2' away from a wall), would that all have to be re-plumbed? Or is there some way of fitting a tankless water heater where a tank one used to be?
I've never installed a water heater myself, but this DIY guide indicates that you should be able to install a tankless in the same location as your current tanked water heater.
-
I've never installed a water heater myself, but this DIY guide indicates that you should be able to install a tankless in the same location as your current tanked water heater.
Yeah with the vague caption "run pipes", and an illustration that could not be more different than my basement's configuration. I already know I can run pipes to the thing, my problem is my basement is a big bowl of concrete and I'm not even sure where you'd attach a wall-mounted appliance without having to drill holes in it.
-
Or is there some way of fitting a tankless water heater where a tank one used to be?
You just run the water lines over to the new water heater. Not terribly difficult to do. What kind of water lines do you have in your house?
it seems like they don't run well on electric (I don't have gas piped into my house)
You are correct about that. You just cannot get enough juice out of a reasonable electric service to get enough of a temperature rise to heat water quickly enough to keep up with flow. If you have no gas, I would stick with an electric tank water heater.
-
Yeah with the vague caption "run pipes", and an illustration that could not be more different than my basement's configuration.
If you actually read it, it says that if you are replacing an existing water heater, you can skip steps, and then specifies which steps.
-
Right; but the steps you skip make no sense. You can't use the existing water lines, or the tankless water heater would just be hovering about 4' above the ground and 2' from any walls. I just don't trust that magical anti-gravity technology. (Sure, you can reuse the gas venting, but I don't see how you could possibly reuse the water piping unless your old tank heater was in a really odd place, or you build a whole structure to mount the new one on.)
-
Learn how to do basic pipe soldering, cut off the piping you don't need, and install new piping.
-
Yeah with the vague caption "run pipes", and an illustration that could not be more different than my basement's configuration.
Well, that is exactly what you do. Re-route the piping to the new location. Not difficult to do.
I'm not even sure where you'd attach a wall-mounted appliance without having to drill holes in it.
You won't be able to, unless you have framing somewhere to mount to. Hammer drills that would handle something like that are inexpensive.
It is a good tool to have around. I have one like that and then two SDS drills. A small drill would be all you would need.
-
-
Learn how to do basic pipe soldering, cut off the piping you don't need, and install new piping.
Yep, there is nothing particularly difficult about it. Mount the water heater to the wall, and route water lines to that location. Not a hard concept to grasp...
-
-
Learn how to do basic pipe soldering, cut off the piping you don't need, and install new piping.
I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm saying that "how to" says you can skip that step if you're installing in the same place as a tank water heater, and that doesn't make any fucking sense. I know it's a lost cause trying to actually communicate to the idiots here...
-
Status: trying to hold my tongue as a lot of people here, including my boss, say really stupid technically-ignorant things. (No, turning off Windows Search Indexer is not going to make your computer faster in any meaningful sense.)
-
-
No, turning off Windows Search Indexer is not going to make your computer faster in any meaningful sense.
That one drives me crazy also. That little "tip" has not made any appreciable difference since XP and single-cores.
I'm saying that "how to" says you can skip that step if you're installing in the same place as a tank water heater, and that doesn't make any fucking sense.
Which is why "how-to's" are general guidelines that you should only follow if you have some sort of fucking clue about what you are doing. If you cannot infer when something is wrong, then you should probably hire a plumber. If you are looking for a "how to replace the water heater in blakeyrat's basement", you will have to make it yourself...
You seem to have missed:
If installing in a concrete or brick basement you will need to attach 2x4s to a joist (a wooden support beam that runs along the ceiling), in order to attach a backboard.
Kind of a silly way to do it if you ask me, but theoretically possible and no anti-gravity required. Anti-grav units are prone to failure. The technology is just not mature enough. Also, it runs on Windows, so it is prone to crashing...
-
Kind of a silly way to do it if you ask me,
Heh. Just hang it there? I mean, I guess that would work...
But in any case, I'm thinking a tankless one is a non-starter. There's also the chance that it was just a tripped breaker all along, and when I get home I'll have loads of nice hot water.
-
I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm saying that "how to" says you can skip that step if you're installing in the same place as a tank water heater, and that doesn't make any fucking sense. I know it's a lost cause trying to actually communicate to the idiots here...
The DIY guide I linked says that you don't need to cut holes or run gas or water lines to the location if you are replacing an existing heater. It also says that the lines need to be connected to the tankless heater once it is mounted on the wall. A pinch of critical thinking here (something you often berate others for not using) will tell you that this means:
- You wouldn't need to run lines to the general location.
- You may need to add a few feet of pipe to make up for the different configurations and sizes of the heaters.
You'd have picked up on all this if you'd actually read the fucking guide. I gave you the information you need to get the answer to the question you gave me. Don't complain when you don't make the effort to actually get the answer out of the material provided.
As for the pictured layout not matching your scenario:
- I don't have a clue what your house looks like, and I don't really give a damn.
- I really doubt that anyone is going to go to the effort of making a DIY guide for every possible layout. There'd have to be a guide for every house.
tl;dr: Stop being such a helpless infant.
Filed Under: @blakeyrat's pissing into the wind and complaining that he's wet
-
Actually here's a question... I bought a house last summer and know very little about how-to stuff like you guys are talking about. The local technical/community college has a continuing-ed class on home maintenance; has anyone done something like that? Is it likely to be worth it/not worth it? I don't know if it has any hands-on component, but if so it seems like that could be very useful.
-
Never tried one. All I know about home maintenance I learned from my parents, in-laws, or figured out myself.
-
status: reading this
argumentthread and eating popcorn to it.you guys are hilarious!
-
Heh. Just hang it there? I mean, I guess that would work...
Yeah, screw a couple of 2x4's to the joists to hang a backerboard in the middle of the mechanical room. What could go wrong? It's not like someone could ever bump it, knock a connection loose and get sprayed with a continuous stream of scalding water until they are perfectly poached...like eggs or salmon.
But in any case, I'm thinking a tankless one is a non-starter.
One of our clients is a commercial HVAC and building maintenance contractor. I asked him about the electric models and he said they were rubbish. You can only get so many watts out of a home electrical service, and it is not enough to get a good supply of hot water when it is heated on demand. His advice was that they were only really useful when retrofitting a sink in to an area that only has a cold water supply. For whole house usage, and showers, the temperature rise is just not enough for a comfortable shower.
YMMV though. Around here, the water in winter is cold enough to drink from the tap with no ice. ~40F on days like today. If your ground temperature does not ever get that low, it might work for you? If you look at the specs for tankless units, they will quote X degrees F rise at Ygpm flow rate. If your coldest water from the tap could be raised to an acceptable level, you may be fine.
-
-
My parents are close to 1000 miles away (and decreasingly able to do things like that) and I didn't really help out much when growing up... in retrospect, kind of unfortunately. I could read & watch videos, but I have very very few people who I think I could ask about how to do things or to watch over while I attempt something.
-
has anyone done something like that? Is it likely to be worth it/not worth it? I don't know if it has any hands-on component, but if so it seems like that could be very useful.
Not sure, as @abarker said, the same holds true for me:
All I know about home maintenance I learned from my parents,
in-laws, or figured out myself.My in-laws are useless in that respect. My FIL hired a handyman to hang new smoke detectors...
Home Depot has a pretty good selection of topic-specific DIY guides that seem to have good information in them. Might be worth picking one up for a project you have in mind. Start small and build your skills and confidence as you learn. Most importantly, know when you are in over your head and call a professional. A month or so ago, I ran new black pipe to upgrade the gas feed to my new cooktop. I would wager a guess that is something that most DIYers should not tackle on their own. But, when you do have someone out to do repairs, watch them and ask questions. Don't be annoying about it, and realize that if they are charging you by the hour you are paying them to teach you. But most guys are happy to talk about their trade.
-
There's also the chance that it was just a tripped breaker all along,
Just don't forget how old your water heater is, you might have to figure all this out relatively soon.
Give it a look-see (among other things there should be an anode that you can pull to see how close you are to needing a new tank).
-
My parents are close to 1000 miles away (and decreasingly able to do things like that) and I didn't really help out much when growing up... in retrospect, kind of unfortunately. I could read & watch videos, but I have very very few people who I think I could ask about how to do things or to watch over while I attempt something.
My BIL is just as useless when it comes to DIY as my FIL is. Trees, apples and all of that. My (nephew-in-law?) has an interest in learning to code, so he frequently comes over and I would help and attempt to teach him what I know. One day, we got bored and he asked about my shop full of tools, etc. We end up out there and I realized he was interested in that also. So, we stopped fooling with code and took a trip to Home Depot and spent the rest of the Sunday building shelves and cabinets for the garage and basement. He was enthralled, and now I have a shop helper when I need one.
Which is a good thing, because when my friends come to "help", they just drink all my beer and talk too much for me to get any work done. He is 13, so I do not have that worry just yet. I wish more kids his age had an interest in such things at an age when it is still really easy to learn. Lots of millenials and younger have no desire to learn.
See if you can find someone to help on their next house project. Do you have any handy friends? I am sure they would love having someone around to help make cuts, or fetch tools, or just keep them company. That would be one of the best ways to learn.
-
The local technical/community college has a continuing-ed class on home maintenance; has anyone done something like that?
Not me.
Is it likely to be worth it/not worth it?
It might be interesting, but only if it is hands-on. The stuff that'll bite you in home improvement is the stuff you don't find until you're 2/3rds of the way through a project. The real experts are the people who can do the entire project and only need to go to the hardware store once.
I do all my own shit but I know my limitations. I'll replace the guts of a toilet, no problem-- or fix my sink drain, or change my car's oil. But stuff more complicated than that I usually pay someone to do for me. Except plumbing. I always do my own plumbing because everybody I've hired to do it has been a fucking idiot moron useless heap of shit. I hate plumbers.
My Dad and I attempted to repair a busted pipe between the city water supply and his house. After about 2 hours of dicking around, we came to the conclusion that it was beyond us-- not because it really was, but because we could spent 8 hours at it and maybe solve it, or hire a guy to spend an hour and have it done right. The time/cost equation doesn't work. Which reminds me, I need to ask him what plumber he called.
EDIT: actually I haven't changed oil in years at this point. Oil change places are so fast and cheap that it's really not worthwhile to do it yourself unless you get a huge high out of it. Even then you still have to drive to the oil change place to dispose of the old oil anyway.
-
My FIL hired a handyman to hang new smoke detectors...
Woohoo I'm at least not at the bottom of the curve!
(I did actually have to hang a house full of smoke alarms because when I moved in there was one in the whole house, and it had a dead battery and was probably 30 years old.)
My worry is that a lot of things sound pretty simple but the consequences of them can be pretty severe. Like there is some plumbing work that "needs" done in my basement, and while that seems pretty simple it seems like the best thing that happens if something goes wrong is I dump a bajillion gallons of water down the drain...
-
Give it a look-see (among other things there should be an anode that you can pull to see how close you are to needing a new tank).
And, if you catch it in time you can replace the anode and gain more life out of the tank. They are really cheap, and if the anode still has life left, it is unlikely that the galvanic corrosion has started on the tank yet.
Opening the valve once a year to clean the crud from the bottom of the tank is not a bad idea either.
-
See if you can find someone to help on their next house project. Do you have any handy friends? I am sure they would love having someone around to help make cuts, or fetch tools, or just keep them company. That would be one of the best ways to learn.
I am not long out of grad school, so most of my friends have either moved to a job or are still in grad school and are renting. (One has worked for his uncle as an electrician's assistant, but he's an exception.) That's why I say I don't really have anyone to turn to.(I need to start building up a new batch of friends as my existing ones move away.. but that's another issue. :-))
-
The stuff that'll bite you in home improvement is the stuff you don't find until you're 2/3rds of the way through a project. The real experts are the people who can do the entire project and only need to go to the hardware store once.
Doesn't exist. Every DIY project will bite you 2/3rds of the way through. And then it'll bite you again 2/3rds of the way through the last 1/3rd.
-
Like there is some plumbing work that "needs" done in my basement, and while that seems pretty simple it seems like the best thing that happens if something goes wrong is I dump a bajillion gallons of water down the drain...
Get a plumbing book from Home Depot, or the library. Read it a few times and dive in. Is it DWV (drain, waste, vent) pipe or pressurized water line? Either way, go for it. Just remember that drain pipe has to have fall in it so that gravity can do its job. Test the line after you are done, and keep an eye on it for a few days after. No drips or leaks, and you are good.
And the best tip is, save all your receipts on plumbing. You will be returning things to the store to get different stuff. Any plumbing job will take at minimum 3 trips to the hardware store. Minimum.
-
The real question is how you even get to the hardware store when you first have to go halfway there, and then go half of the remaining distance, and then go half of the remaining distance, :-)
-
The real question is how you even get to the hardware store when you first have to go halfway there, and then go half of the remaining distance, and then go half of the remaining distance,
It sucked growing up because we lived in the middle of nowhere and had to drive 35 miles and past two other towns to get to one that had a hardware store. And our house was 100+ years old and NOTHING was standard. Just not fun going to a hardware store that far away 3 - 4 times in a day so you can get a $0.60 adapter or some other nonsense to kludge a working solution together long enough to shower and then try to "do it right" later.
-
Doesn't exist. Every DIY project will bite you 2/3rds of the way through. And then it'll bite you again 2/3rds of the way through the last 1/3rd.
I had it happen once, last time I had to rebuild a toilet. They had a kit with all the parts all set up and ready to plop in the tank. And, to everybody's surprise including my own, it actually was complete-- nothing was missing. In retrospect I should have found the company who made that kit and made a note of it.
-
actually I haven't changed oil in years at this point. Oil change places are so fast and cheap that it's really not worthwhile to do it yourself unless you get a huge high out of it. Even then you still have to drive to the oil change place to dispose of the old oil anyway.
I do all of our vehicle maintenance, and for the same reason that you do your own plumbing. My wife went to Firestone service centers before we got together. She came home with an estimate once for repairs and I went over it and then over her vehicle. Most of the shit was apparently made up. They said the brake pads needed replaced, they had over 50% life in them. Shit like that.
But also, I really like doing such things. It reminds me of working on old cars with my dad when I was a little kid. Now I just need a wood burning stove to complete the ambiance.
-
Get a plumbing book from Home Depot, or the library. Read it a few times and dive in. Is it DWV (drain, waste, vent) pipe or pressurized water line? Either way, go for it. Just remember that drain pipe has to have fall in it so that gravity can do its job. Test the line after you are done, and keep an eye on it for a few days after. No drips or leaks, and you are good.
I am about 98% sure it's DWV. At least in the relevant area (basement utility sink by the washer), it's steel or something rather than copper or a plastic. (I... do not think it is lead.) The house was built in the 50s if that gives some context.One annoying thing is the house builder (the first owner, actually) apparently had not heard of valves... unless I'm blind, I don't think there are any valves upstream of the sink faucets until you get just inside the water meter, except for the intake into the water heater. So another worry about that job in particular is if I screw something up and have to call someone to fix it, I don't have water until then. :-)
-
I do all of our vehicle maintenance, and for the same reason that you do your own plumbing.
I mostly do my own vehicle maintenance but it's a pain. I only do it for the cost savings, not because I enjoy it. I recently had to replace the fuel injectors in my Duramax. Supposed to be a 12-hour job, but it took me and my mechanic friend close to four days!! Still cost $2500 in parts too!! Would have been close to $4k to have a shop do it.
-
it's steel or something rather than copper or a plastic. (I... do not think it is lead.) The house was built in the 50s if that gives some context.
It could very easily be cast iron. Ferncos will be your friend.
One annoying thing is the house builder (the first owner, actually) apparently had not heard of valves... unless I'm blind, I don't think there are any valves upstream of the sink faucets until you get just inside the water meter, except for the intake into the water heater.
Pretty common for that era. As you do repairs to those areas (sinks, vanities, toilets, etc), put the valves in for next time. You will be glad that you did.
-
Doesn't exist. Every DIY project will bite you 2/3rds of the way through. And then it'll bite you again 2/3rds of the way through the last 1/3rd.
Harpo's Corollary: "Every project takes n+1 trips to the hardware store."
Harpo's Software Corollary: "Just one more update will fix it."
-
I do all of our vehicle maintenance, and for the same reason that you do your own plumbing. My wife went to Firestone service centers before we got together. She came home with an estimate once for repairs and I went over it and then over her vehicle. Most of the shit was apparently made up. They said the brake pads needed replaced, they had over 50% life in them. Shit like that.
I had a guy charge me for checking the OBD II code when I already told him the code as I checked-in the car, that kind of pissed me off. But I think it's more "their book hasn't been updated since cars have had a OBD II code readout on the dash" than malice. That's the worst experience I've ever had with car guys.
My dad has a '65 Barracuda but hates working on it. The only reason it's running is because I spent more time on his collector's car than he has, haha. (Old cars are fun as hell. "Not starting? Just put some gas in a spray bottle and squirt it in the carburetor-- there she goes!" And there's nothing like having (and actually needing) a manual choke in your car. (But before you guys get all "oh hahaha Blakeyrat is a hypocritezzz!" on me, I'd fucking hate driving it if it was the only car I had access to. Anybody nostalgic for old cars is an idiot. They're all shitty.)
-
Pretty common for that era. As you do repairs to those areas (sinks, vanities, toilets, etc), put the valves in for next time. You will be glad that you did.
Absolutely a must-do.
-
There was also an adapter so you could play Sega Master System games on the GameGear, which helped the library (but not the battery life) of the system.
EDIT: And 6 minutes after posting this, I'm now caught up.
-
I mostly do my own vehicle maintenance but it's a pain.
I also do it for the time savings, which would not be applicable in your case:
Supposed to be a 12-hour job, but it took me and my mechanic friend close to four days!!
;)
My wife's water pump went out a while back. It would have been down for a couple of days by the time we got it in the shop and got it back. I had it done in 2-3 hours and replaced the hoses while I was at it. That was including a lot of "toddler time" of "What's that daddy? What's it do?"
-
My wife's water pump went out a while back. It would have been down for a couple of days by the time we got it in the shop and got it back.
My car was in the shop for more than a week after the timing belt broke1. That was exciting (and expensive2).1 I was within the recommended maintenance interval; not my fault
2 I have an interference engine and it bent all eight valves
-
I had a guy charge me for checking the OBD II code when I already told him the code as I checked-in the car, that kind of pissed me off. But I think it's more "their book hasn't been updated since cars have had a OBD II code readout on the dash" than malice.
Also, dealer shops just have standard costs for each job and items that get billed for on those tickets. A friend is a mechanic and as he explained it, you get X hours for Y job. If it takes you <X, you are money ahead. >X and you are money behind. Not a bad system though, because your raise is effective when you are. He also gets to cherry pick the jobs and grabs the tickets that have the best ratios, etc.
Anybody nostalgic for old cars is an idiot. They're all shitty.
It depends on your outlook. My first car was a '69 Camaro Z/28. For a 16 year old, it was amazing to drive every day (gas was cheaper in '95). Today, I would love to have it back, but only to drive on nice days, etc. As a daily driver, it would be rubbish.
Edit: Goddamn Markdown. I wrote something above and it read it as a comment and excluded it from display. Anyone interested can view raw. I am not dicking with it.
EDIT: escaped brackets -b
-
I have an interference engine and it bent all eight valves
At least you know what an interference engine is. You are already ahead on that curve. :)
-
Status: There is some toy in my son's room that keeps coming on and singing a song at random. It will not play long enough for me to find it and is random enough that I am not going to sit in there and wait for it to come on.
The first time it happened, it was a bit creepy. All I heard was a voice coming from somewhere in the house...
-
You don't have an upcoming meeting with HR do you?
That would be impressive considering how long ago he started there.
-
>Was the breaker tripped and you reset it?
How do you tell? I just flipped it off and back on.
[odd...I couldn't select Polygeekery's name with the rest of the text I was going to quote]
Unless this is some kind of weird breaker, you tell it's tripped by the fact that it's off instead of on.
