Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes
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@lucas1 said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-gb/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/
Get rid of most of the horrific UI.
I know. I've had to install that on friend/family machines that upgraded. But AssCancer is still there, and there's things you can't undo even with a theme changer/
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@kt_ said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Me too, but I think we're
?
E_IRISHGIRL_NOTFOUND ?
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@kt_ said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Which one?
TV Show. Two Broke Girls.
Fake edit:
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@Zecc said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
By the way, @ben_lubar, when pasting the above screenshot (as d by @anotherusername ):
TypeError: can't convert undefined to object
This is because, as http://caniuse.com/#feat=clipboard tells us, every version of Firefox "Supports cut & copy events without a focused editable field, but not paste (presumably for security reasons)".
In this line of code:
var items = (event.clipboardData || event.originalEvent.clipboardData || {}).items;
there's noevent.clipboardData
andevent.originalEvent.clipboardData
has no.items
.Imgur manages to do it, though. So did Discourse, for that matter.
And for whatever it's worth, Imgur still manages to do it without the help of the invisible Flash embed which Firefox says it's blocking.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
You are literally the first person to test this. Including the NodeBB dev team.
They closed my bug that said they have no code review or QA, so either they're incompetent frauds, or they have code review and QA now! Yay!
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
they have code review and QA now! Yay!
Now what will you do to occupy your time, since you can't rant about that?
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@FrostCat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Now what will you do to occupy your time, since you can't rant about that?
Bide my time until the next really idiotic bug happens (maybe 2, 3 days), then refile the same bug as a regression like I did when Ben L closed bugs that weren't fixed.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
when Ben L closed bugs that weren't fixed.
Does the concept of different projects / trackers enter your world at any point?
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Does the concept of different projects / trackers enter your world at any point?
I don't see how it's relevant.
Of course the bug might exist both here and in NodeBB's bug database, duh. But that doesn't mean it can be closed here as long as the bug still exists.
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@blakeyrat You think that's bad? He closed my bug about toaster text being invisible on dark themes with the justification that you can use Stylish
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Does the concept of different projects / trackers enter your world at any point?
He said not. I mean, you can't really argue something like that with the kind of person who thinks "bug" means "behavior I don't like".
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
I don't see how it's relevant.
I'll take that as, "I've heard of it but I don't understand it."
@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
But that doesn't mean it can be closed here as long as the bug still exists.
ITYM should, but this is because you don't understand the purpose of that tracker. I think it's been explained to you, but just in case, that tracker is for him to check to make sure that the problem isn't some customization that we're responsible for. Things that are our bugs get tracked there. Things that aren't our bugs will be closed and a new issue created on NodeBB (AKA, "moved"). This is to prevent us from possibly flooding the NodeBB guys with stuff that we messed up ourselves.
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@Jaloopa said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
He closed my bug about toaster text being invisible on dark themes with the justification that you can use Stylish
Did he put in a report on the NodeBB tracker? It's definitely their issue.
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
ITYM should, but this is because you don't understand the purpose of that tracker.
I make no apologies for not being telepathic.
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
I think it's been explained to you, but just in case, that tracker is for him to check to make sure that the problem isn't some customization that we're responsible for.
And I would normally know that via telepathy? Please show me where that's documented. Where that was communicated to me.
For the record, no it has not been explained to me, nor does it make sense to me because if that's the way it's supposed to work, that's certainly not what Ben L's doing.
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Things that are our bugs get tracked there. Things that aren't our bugs will be closed and a new issue created on NodeBB (AKA, "moved").
Except you're currently fixing a bug (mobile mode should never be shown on desktop) that applies to all of NodeBB without making use of NodeBB's tracker, AFAIK. Because Ben L never bothered to move it there. Because he's a little shit who's not doing whatever job he's (apparently, according to you) supposed to be doing.
So, in short: yes I'm fucking confused, because the situation's confusing. You're telling me this bug tracker isn't actually a tracker of bugs but instead some kind of weird triage station where things are closed after they're triaged, but it's irrelevant whether or not they're fixed. Ok. Fine. (Let's just call it a "bug tracker" even though it doesn't track bugs. Or only a third of the things in there are actually bugs for this particular site. That's not confusing at all.)
But then I put in a bug that is a NodeBB bug about the mobile mode, and Ben L who runs this triage center should have "moved" (by which I mean "copied") the bug to the NodeBB tracker, right? But he didn't. He left a couple snarky comments then utterly ignored it.
Then you start fixing it anyway even though it's not in the NodeBB tracker, (presumably) working directly off the bug in our tracker.
But no. I'm the one with the problem. Of course.
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Did he put in a report on the NodeBB tracker? It's definitely their issue.
No. Ben L just fucking ignores bugs he doesn't personally like. Go look for yourself.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
You're telling me this bug tracker isn't actually a tracker of bugs but instead some kind of weird triage station where things are closed after they're triaged, but it's irrelevant whether or not they're fixed.
No, I just told you that it is a tracker of bugs. But it's meant to track bugs in our configuration / customization. I don't remember where @ben_lubar explained the rationale behind the tracker.
@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
But then I put in a bug that is a NodeBB bug about the mobile mode, and Ben L who runs this triage center should have "moved" (by which I mean "copied") the bug to the NodeBB tracker, right? But he didn't. He left a couple snarky comments then utterly ignored it.
I could swear that @julianlam showed up in some topic (maybe your pointing out nodebb bugs?) and commented on the situation. It seemed plain that they don't consider this a bug. Personally, I regard it similar to Windows not utilizing X's concept of primary selection that allows me to copy by selecting and paste with a middle click.
This problem seems to be solvable with a plugin that doesn't affect NodeBB core, so I can control it completely without having to get their buy in on a design decision that they disagree with. So that's what I'm doing.
@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
But no. I'm the one with the problem. Of course.
Yes, your problem seems to be that you don't accept decisions or processes that you disagree with. I recommend the Serenity Prayer, which starts like this:
God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
I don't remember where @ben_lubar explained the rationale behind the tracker.
Yeah, it's difficult to remember things that never happened sometimes.
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
I could swear that @julianlam showed up in some topic (maybe your pointing out nodebb bugs?) and commented on the situation. It seemed plain that they don't consider this a bug.
If that's true, he's criminally incompetent.
The first-run experience for every user who has either browser zoom turned on, or the width of their browser set to less than the magic number, is going to see mobile mode on desktop. They're going to hit "reply" and they're going to ask, "what the fuck is this shit? There's no WYSIWYG? There's no preview? There's no way to quote a post? Goddamned NodeBB sucks ass!" and they're gonna leave and never come back.
I only even learned about the magical number because someone explicitly explained it to me. But even so: the first-run impression I got was ABSOLUTE DOG SHIT.
That's why this bug is important.
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Personally, I regard it similar to Windows not utilizing X's concept of primary selection that allows me to copy by selecting and paste with a middle click.
Except if Windows users don't know about that, they don't get an extremely shitty first-run experience.
This would be more like Windows boots up the first time and runs at 1/5th speed and makes howler monkey sounds every time you mouse over an icon or menu, and you just have to know telepathically to go to a control panel and turn off "howler monkey mode".
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
This problem seems to be solvable with a plugin that doesn't affect NodeBB core, so I can control it completely without having to get their buy in on a design decision that they disagree with. So that's what I'm doing.
Right; but that doesn't explain why Ben L isn't using this bug triage/tracker/thing in the way you're suggesting it should be used. Which tells me he's not on the same page about what it's for, either.
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
This problem seems to be solvable with a plugin that doesn't affect NodeBB core,
Except it's not, what you're doing is kind of a nasty hack.
And in any case, if @julianlam were even half-competent, he'd want his software to have a good first-run experience for desktop users, and right now it's ass. So it's still a bug they should be fixing and, IMO, it ought to be a pretty high priority, too.
Although I'm actually starting to think that maybe open source developers make shitty software because the don't want people to like their software. Huh. That's an interesting theory.
@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Yes, your problem seems to be that you don't accept decisions or processes that you disagree with.
How can I agree or disagree with something I've never been informed of?
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Except if Windows users don't know about that, they don't get an extremely shitty first-run experience.
I don't see how that's relevant.
@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
How can I agree or disagree with something I've never been informed of?
I never said you should.
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
I could swear that @julianlam showed up in some topic (maybe your pointing out nodebb bugs?) and commented on the situation
This seems to be what I was remembering:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/19205/blakeyrat-pointing-out-nodebb-problems/566
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@boomzilla It seems like he's more interested in some kind of weird obscure standard of technical correctness than ensuring his users don't have an ass experience with his product.
Whatever, that's beside the point.
Why don't you, instead of looking for this mythical blurb that explains what the bug tracker is for, why don't you get together with Ben L and go write one, and then go to that bug tracker page and post it right there at the top of it so everybody can see it and it's crystal clear what expectations people should have. That way, nobody's relying on telepathy, and nobody's going to be disappointed when their bugs are closed without being fixed.
But until you do that, people like me are going to assume that the bugtracker is a bugtracker and works like a bugtracker and they're going to get pissed-off, like me, because their bugs that aren't fixed were closed anyway. As well they should! Because nothing's worse than being asked for input, then having that input ignored or brushed-off. If you don't want it, don't ask for it.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Please show me where that's documented. Where that was communicated to me.
Right here in this very thread, whereupon you insisted it should still be left in the local tracker regardless. More than once.
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@FrostCat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Right here in this very thread, whereupon you insisted it should still be left in the local tracker regardless.
Fuck your pedantic dickweedery.
You know what I meant. Show me where it was explained before it became obvious that my expectations were wrong. Of course the answer is: nobody can, because it wasn't.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Fuck your pedantic dickweedery.
Translation to hu-mon: "Oh, I guess you were right but I would have a heart attack if I admitted it."
You keep saying nobody told you. But you were told. Now you know. Stop pretending you don't.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
You know what I meant.
Yes, I know that you just so you can keep flaming everyone. Now that you know what it's for, why do you keep ranting about how you didn't at some point in the past?
Oh, right, because you can't admit to being wrong about anything ever.
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@FrostCat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
But you were told.
Not until AFTER the problem had occurred.
Look, whatever. Keep replying if you want. You're wrong here, and you know it, and I'm not going to keep you amused by constantly defending myself. Go harass someone else.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Go harass someone else.
Why don't you go find another forum to harass everyone, troll? Everyone's tired of you on this one.
Ima sit here and wait until you make another post pretending you don't understand what the what-bugs tracker is for, except I know you won't, because abandoning thread is your way of not admitting you were wrong.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Show me where it was explained before it became obvious that my expectations were wrong.
Fuck you.
These were from yesterday (not before you started complaining, but before you stopped complaining, which you still have not):
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/12236/the-official-status-thread/44066
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/19205/blakeyrat-pointing-out-nodebb-problems/1363
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/12236/the-official-status-thread/44062This one was two months ago (I don't remember exactly what you were complaining about back then, but it's before the current incident):
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/19273/broken-z-order-who-didn-t-expect-this-to-happen/7
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@FrostCat I, for one, find @blakeyrat to be largely correct most of the time.
It's not obvious what the tracker is for and 'close bugs sent upstream' is counter to practice everywhere I've worked.
He is quite brusque and impolitic in how he points out issues, and is utterly relentless about workarounds being unacceptable, but that's much of the appeal.
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/19273/broken-z-order-who-didn-t-expect-this-to-happen/7
That communicates about 1/10th of the information you did earlier today. For example, it says nothing about bugs being closed before they're resolved in any way.
And in any case, it's not anywhere you'd expect people to find it. Buried in an old bug thread? Where's the "beware of the jaguar" sign?
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Where's the "beware of the jaguar" sign?
It left on the .
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
This would be more like Windows boots up the first time and runs at 1/5th speed and makes howler monkey sounds every time you mouse over an icon or menu, and you just have to know telepathically to go to a control panel and turn off "howler monkey mode".
In all fairness, that IS the Windows first-run experience, except replace "howler monkey" with fun things like "Sticky Keys", and "No start menu", and "Random text-to-speeching", and "sounds every fucking time you click", and "Hide 'unused' menu items", and etc.
Seriously, though, I'm with @blakeyrat on this one. If I file a bug in the TDWTF tracker-- even if that bug gets pushed to NodeBB core, it shouldn't be closed. Add the "Sent Upstream" tag, sure, that way we know what's happening. Add a link to the bug in NodeBB Core. Great.
But don't close it. Closing it means "this issue is resolved fro TDWTF". It isn't. Until that bug is fixed in TDWTF, it isn't closed, because the bug still occurs in my instance. It isn't unreasonable to assume the bug will be bounced to NodeBB Core, and then bounced over to whoever makes the WYSIWYG editor, then bounced to the owners of Markdown, who then bounce it to Chrome's dev team, who then bounces it to Microsoft.
I'm not going to follow any more than 1 bug tracker. TDWTF tracker, that's linked to at the top of every page in a jellypotatoe blue box.
I'll give an example from my own workplace. We have a core product, and it is implemented on many customer. If a customer reports a problem, I open a ticket. I give them the ticket number. If that becomes a core product issue, the customer's ticket remains open. I file a bug with the core dev team. Once THAT is done, and I get either an upgrade or a patch or fix-it instructions, I roll it out to the customer. THEN I close the customer's ticket.
Because as far as any customer is concerned, a ticket is not closed until it works for them.
Again: A ticket is NEVER closed until the bug is fixed FOR THEM.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Also, we need a jQuery plugin for this, apparently:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/vendor/jquery/timeago/locales/jquery.timeago.en-short.js?_=1462816875187
Not only do we show the idiotic "time ago" format, but it's done client-side. With a plugin. That has to make a second request to get the formatting info.You need to do it client side because the ago string has to keep updating as time passes.
And the reason they do a separate call for each file is because these things are cached, and your browser (maybe? probably?) won't even make these requests after the initial load.
Why all this complaining about extra requests? For all its faults, NodeBB clearly has no performance issues. There are plenty of better things to rant about.
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@cartman82 said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
You need to do it client side because the ago string has to keep updating as time passes.
Does it need the internet to do that? We have clocks now. This would lead to the very amusing " change your system clock for lolz" issues but the alternative is querying the website to ask, basically, what time it is.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Although I'm actually starting to think that maybe open source developers make shitty software because the don't want people to like their software. Huh. That's an interesting theory.
You're wrong, it's a moronic theory.
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@blakeyrat @boomzilla, GET THE FUCK OUT OF @Lorne-Kates's THREAD!
This thread is called "representative Ajax"- something, not "blakeyrat and boomzilla have a go at each other as to what buck tracker should be used for." If you want to do that, create your own thread and call it something like "blakeyrat pointing out problems with NodeBB", or "what should a buck tracker be used for I don't know I'm blakeyrat" and GTFO from @Lorne-Kates's thread! He's taken great pains to create it and he certainly isn't pleased with you to coming in and derailing it and using it for your sick purposes!
Filed under: jeez, man…
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@kt_ said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
This thread is called "representative Ajax"- something, not "blakeyrat and boomzilla have a go at each other as to what buck tracker should be used for."
As I understand it, all of my posts became posts via AJAX, so I think we're good.
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@AyGeePlus said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
@cartman82 said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
You need to do it client side because the ago string has to keep updating as time passes.
Does it need the internet to do that? We have clocks now. This would lead to the very amusing " change your system clock for lolz" issues but the alternative is querying the website to ask, basically, what time it is.
Um, no, it's not querying the site for the time. AFAICT it's asking for localization info. Failing that, it defaults to some form of English.
Where did this "it's asking the server for the time" stuff come from?
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@Weng said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
It's not obvious what the tracker is for and 'close bugs sent upstream' is counter to practice everywhere I've worked.
All true. But then it was pointed out what it was for at least twice, but he continued to pretend that didn't happen.
I mean, you wanna disagree about something, fine, that's ok. But don't lie--and here I mean the real definition of lie, which is to say something you know isn't true, and not @blakeyrat's pretend definition of the word--and pretend nobody told you what's going on.
ETA: And obviously by "you" in that last paragraph I don't mean @weng, but blakeys' latest stray voltage.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
it's not querying the site for the time. AFAICT it's asking for localization info
I may have slightly misunderstood. Essentially it's querying the site for instructions on how to display times it already knows?
Honestly that makes even less sense, but at least it gets cached.
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@AyGeePlus said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Essentially it's querying the site for instructions on how to display times it already knows?
Something like that. Essentially the main script loads, then (depending on locale) it will request the language-specific information to replace the default English settings.
In other words, it's for the people who don't display English in their browser. It just so happens that they include English so that it doesn't error out.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Essentially the main script loads, then (depending on locale) it will request the language-specific information to replace the default English settings.
That's still a stupid, unnecessary round-trip that could be avoided with a better design.
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@boomzilla said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
before you stopped complaining
E_EVENT_NOT_FOUND
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@Weng said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
'close bugs sent upstream' is counter to practice everywhere I've worked.
The Github issue tracker is shit and doesn't have a state for “out of our hands; stop bugging us about this as it's someone else's job”. Given that, closing is reasonable.
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@dkf said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
The Github issue tracker is shit
Then why are we using it?
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Then why are we using it?
Probably because you haven't written a better one.
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@blakeyrat said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
Then why are we using it?
Not my call.
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@dkf said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
The Github issue tracker is shit and doesn't have a state for “out of our hands; stop bugging us about this as it's someone else's job”.
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@anotherusername That's just a label. They use labels to approximate this sort of thing, but they suck.
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@dkf it seems pretty clear to me. What's wrong with them? You can even search for the label and view all the issues that were sent upstream.
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@anotherusername said in Representative AJAX: Everything wrong with modern webdesign in 562 bytes:
@dkf it seems pretty clear to me. What's wrong with them?
Due to them, Ben L was closing bugs that are not fixed. Is the answer not self-explanatory after this long-ass thread about exactly that?