Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
HP Elite books
I will never touch another HP product in my life.
Our standard workstation is the HP Z420. Most inconsistent system ever. It has 3 separate SATA controllers, all with different drivers, none of which are compatible with the Windows install environment, one of which does not have Windows 10 drivers available, with mixed plug colors so it's almost impossible to know which plugs are on which controller, and the hardware and drivers are not even well-labeled so you have to install about 30 different driver packages in the install environment before you get the right one. Also, a few of those driver packages will BSOD the install environment and need to be skipped, but all 30 driver packages have the same exact name with no way to distinguish between them. Then, some, but not all, Z420's are really flakey depending on which PCI-E slots are used, and some of our stations will BSOD if you use more than one PCI-E slot at a time while others work just fine, even if they have the same BIOS version. Mine is pretty stable on the PCI-E buses, but has a shoddy USB controller so I'm always having problems with keyboards and mice and usually have to unplug/replug them to make them work after a power cycle.
Terrible workstation.
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@mott555 The one printer that was the most trouble, HP sent out a tech 11 times. 11!! The printer would just randomly drop off the network, stop responding to ping, would not print, could not access the integrated web server. Every time it needed a hard reboot.
They replaced everything but the power supply. They replaced the formatter board 4 separate times, and the last time they replaced it they put the wrong part number, effectively downgrading the printer to a lower SKU.
After the fourth time they sent a tech out, I just wanted it replaced. At one point I got a tech who absolutely insisted that it was an IP address conflict, which there was no possible way that it could be. It was a literal impossibility for that to be the issue, but we moved it to DHCP, same issues came back within 24 hours. They had us jump through tons of hoops, same issues every time. At one point I lost my cool with the guy who kept insisting that it was an IP address conflict and ended up screaming at him on the phone out of frustration.
So, he called the client directly. Their CFO promptly told him to piss off and that he needed to contact me if it related to the network. Finally, I got them to replace the printer. No issues since.
In the middle of this whole 9 month debacle, 4 new HP workstations died. They did not want to replace them, even though their shitty power supplies going out is what wrecked the machines. They insisted it was dirty power. That was also an impossibility as this was a medical client and all of those workstations were inside of the UPS loops that conditioned all of the power.
The other printer...was probably not their fault come to find out. That came down to a maintenance man I think. But we shitcanned it before we realized it. That's another story though...
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@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
My point was rather that they don't need to be 3 times the cost, just a little bit more.
good, now get them to not be any extra money.
i'm not going to stop complaining until the cost is the same as standard or they pay for their own fucking special snowflake machines.
sure they don't need to be 3x more, but they are more and it's my fucking budget (well my departments.... i don't actually control it as i've mentioned.)
@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Easy. Turn off all those Apple servers someone told your IT department they needed.
that solves the materiel costs. now the manpower costs?
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This post is deleted!
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
good, now get them to not be any extra money.
When you find out how to get a premium product for an average price, clue us in on your secret.
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@Jaloopa said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Which is different to the usual expected thing on Windows IIRC
Subtly different: they operate the active widget’s scroll bar instead of moving the insertion point.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
good, now get them to not be any extra money.
When you find out how to get a premium product for an average price, clue us in on your secret.
E_FALACY
we have not proven that apple products are premium products.
i firmly assert that they are overpriced garbage in exactly the same way Coach handbags are overpriced garbage.
why should i pay $300 for a handbag when i can get an identical handbag that was made in the same factory, on the same machines, with the same pattern for $29.99, and that the only material difference is that the Coach handbag has the Coach Brand logo on it?
because as far as i can see the only material difference for our salespeople who use Outlook and Salesforce for their work and our designers who use the Adobe Creative Cloud and google for their work, is that the apple product is significantly more expensive and has the logo of a partially eaten macintosh on the front.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
because as far as i can see the only material difference for our salespeople who use Outlook and Salesforce for their work and our designers who use the Adobe Creative Cloud and google for their work, is that the apple product is significantly more expensive and has the logo of a partially eaten macintosh on the front.
The mistake they’re making is not buying the more expensive computer, but replacing them every two years when they could easily triple that without drawbacks, and thus pay probably less in the long term than they would if they bought the laptops you’d want them to at the same rate they’re doing now. To illustrate my point, I’ve got a 2007 iMac around the house, the lowest-spec model that had nothing more than a memory upgrade (to 4 GB), but still runs the latest version of OS X smoothly and has no trouble with Adobe CS6 or CC at all. Sure, it may not do so quite as fast as a brand-new MacBook Pro, but it’s not like it’s so slow you have to wait for it either.
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@accalia Retract the claws there kitten.
Apply products are definitely higher quality. If you ever used one, you would know. But also, nowhere in there did I say that your salesdrones need a MacBook. It sounds like they would be fine with Chromebooks for that matter. The cheapy ones. As for the hipster designers, if they are using Creative Cloud they can use whatever from my understanding. I won't touch it. It is nothing but a money grab by Adobe and Adobe can go get fucked also. They can have my CS6 when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
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@Gurth said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
The mistake they’re making is not buying the more expensive computer, but replacing them every two years when they could easily triple that without drawbacks, and thus pay probably less in the long term than they would if they bought the laptops you’d want them to at the same rate they’re doing now. To illustrate my point, I’ve got a 2007 iMac around the house, the lowest-spec model that had nothing more than a memory upgrade (to 4 GB), but still runs the latest version of OS X smoothly and has no trouble with Adobe CS6 or CC at all. Sure, it may not do so quite as fast as a brand-new MacBook Pro, but it’s not like it’s so slow you have to wait for it either.
My cousin still uses a ~2007 model MacBook Pro that he has put an SSD upgrade in and 16GB of RAM (I think? Maybe 8GB?). It is very smooth and reliable and is his Python development machine. Before my current iMac I had a ~2008 Mac Mini that has been upgraded to 8GB of RAM and an SSD and it does everything I needed it to with no lag. The only reason I upgraded is that I lucked in to a 2013 (or maybe 2014?) iMac for super cheap and then I could run 3 displays.
I also have a MacBook Air and a MacBook Pro (both 2015 models) and I am currently on the Air because it is my go-to laptop. It does everything I need it to do, is super light and has amazing battery life. The Pro almost never gets used, and was mostly wasted money.
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What about mechanical pencils?
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
~2007 model MacBook Pro that he has put an SSD upgrade in and 16GB of RAM (I think? Maybe 8GB?).
Probably 8 GB of which only 6 get used, at a guess. My 2008 aluminium MacBook (the one that was rebranded “MacBook Pro” the next year) can handle 4 GB according to Apple but 8 GB in practice, so the 2007 model likely less than that.
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@Gurth In that case it is at least a 2008. I know it has at least 8GB.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
but they are more and it's my fucking budget (well my departments.
That's a different issue. IMO a central IT budget shouldn't be financing any new hardware that isn't for the IT department itself. Operating costs, sure, but not capital cost.
@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
now the manpower costs?
I've no idea what these extra manpower costs are to support an Apple computer over giving the same person a HP computer. I'm sure they can be solved, though, if you can elaborate.
Things like breaking machines or spilling coffee on them is a user problem, so happens irregardless of what you give them.
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The most unstable computer I've ever used in my life was a 2011-ish iMac. It kernel panicked almost daily. I thought I was in bizarro-land as the college-age Apple hipsters I knew at the time would tell me Windows horror stories, but all those stories came to pass for me in Apple-land, not MS-land.
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@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
IMO a central IT budget shouldn't be financing any new hardware that isn't for the IT department itself. Operating costs, sure, but not capital cost.
agreed
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
When you find out how to get a premium product for an average price, clue us in on your secret.
You can get an Audi A3 (a premium product) for an average price by buying a Volkswagen Golf (same platform, same engines, different frock).
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@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
I've no idea what these extra manpower costs are to support an Apple computer over giving the same person a HP computer. I'm sure they can be solved, though, if you can elaborate.
oh most of them boil down to the usual ID10T errors with some PEBKAC thrown in there too.
but none of us know mac, none of us in IT use mac so when they go breaky we need outside resources.... and those are always way pricier.
and of course we don't do enough to justify bringing on a help desk staffer for mac.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
and of course we don't do enough to justify bringing on a help desk staffer for mac.
Plus who really wants someone wearing a blue t-shirt with the word 'Genius' written on it, drinking his tall chocolate hazelnut mocha latte with an unearned smug superiority? ;)
Edit: Do hipsters still wear aviators?
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@RaceProUK said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
You can get an Audi A3 (a premium product) for an average price by buying a Volkswagen Golf (same platform, same engines, different frock).
Then you're not buying the premium product.
The base Golf and the base A3 aren't equivalent spec - the base A3 is the SE, which compares more fairly to the Golf Match (rather than the base Golf S) with a much smaller price difference. Compare the A3 S-Line to the Golf R-Line and the price gap is £500 on £25k cars.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
but none of us know mac, none of us in IT use mac so when they go breaky we need outside resources.... and those are always way pricier.
and of course we don't do enough to justify bringing on a help desk staffer for mac.Ok, I can't solve that short term - but longer term, it's nothing that couldn't be solved by the regular staff taking a look and applying a bit of Google. AFAICT we don't have any Mac-specific or Mac-trained support staff.
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@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
but longer term,
but longer term it needs to be solved by making the departments pay for their own fucking laptops when they want non standard loadouts. we already have to do that wqhen building the dev desktops (that's the only reason i put up with a paperweight for a work laptop)
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
but longer term it needs to be solved by making the departments pay for their own fucking laptops when they want non standard loadouts.
Yes. They should be paying for the purchase even when it is standard.
That doesn't solve the ongoing operational support element though, just the purchase.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Apply products are definitely higher quality.
Whatever you're arguing, @accalia won here
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Apply products are definitely higher quality.
arguable.
i've seen the build quality on their IPHONE charger cables
not impressed.
and i've seen the build quality on their macbooks. they're sexy i'll give them that, but the build quality is not significantly better than an equivalent priced and specc'd PC ultrabook.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
but the build quality is not significantly better than an equivalent priced and specc'd PC ultrabook.
If it's the equivalent price and spec, why would you expect it to be significantly better?
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@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
but the build quality is not significantly better than an equivalent priced and specc'd PC ultrabook.
If it's the equivalent price and spec, why would you expect it to be significantly better?
the assertion is superior build quality. if the difference in build quality for a similarly priced and specced PC is nearly indistinguishable then that is not superior build quality.
the only way to compare is to compare apples to apples. you can't compare a $1.5k macbook to a $450 PC and claim the macbook has superior build quality, because of course it fucking does! you are comparing apples and oranges!
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
you can't compare a $1.5k macbook to a $450 PC and claim the macbook has superior build quality, because of course it fucking does!
Duh.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
you are comparing apples and
orangesPCs!
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
arguable.
i've seen the build quality on their IPHONE charger cables
not impressed.So fucking what? They are still better quality than the Mini-USB cables I have to replace as often as @mott555 does membrane keyboards.
It is a cable. And tons of those are counterfeits. Chargers also.
As for your other point, @loopback0 rebutted it for me.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
They are still better quality than the Mini-USB cables I have to replace as often as @mott555 does membrane keyboards.
I've never had to replace an Apple cable or a manufacturer-supplied micro USB cable. They're all good enough for normal use.
Just like membrane keyboards.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
As for your other point, @loopback0 rebutted it for me.
unsuccessfully.
I have seen the build quality of macbooks. and it's high. that i granted you, in fact i assert that is is just as high as good quality ultrabooks with equivalent specs and pricepoints.
the thing with apple is you don't have the market stratification. a mac is a mac is a mac, but with PC you have the entire spectrum of quality, when you look at the subsection of that spectrum that can be reasonably be compared on an apples to apples manner with macbooks i see no appreciable difference in build quality.
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@loopback0 said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
I've never had to replace an Apple cable or a manufacturer-supplied micro USB cable. They're all good enough for normal use.
I have replaced on Apple laptop charger cable. $8
I go through Mini-USB cables like Tic-tacs. I can't find one that will last, and my next phone will have USB-C.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
I have seen the build quality of macbooks. and it's high. that i granted you, in fact i assert that is is just as high as good quality ultrabooks with equivalent specs and pricepoints.
So then your point about Macs being more expensive is
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Mini-USB cables
the mini USB spec was shite anyway.
microUSB was much better.
what do you have that still uses Mini USB?
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
So then your point about Macs being more expensive is
if you want to move goal posts so you can win this one, sure.
the lower priced, and yes lower build quality PCs we purchase are significantly cheaper than the macbooks, and yet are of sufficient build quality that they will stand up to all reasonable workplace wear and tear for the entirety of their three year warranty period, and probably for a lot longer than that.
in this workplace environment, the build quality issue is completely irrelevant as the cheaper option has sufficient build quality for the purpose.
thus i can surmise that you brought up the build quality issue for the sole purpose of moving the goalposts so that you could win the argument that macbooks are superior. i still say they aren't, because the additional build quality is unecessary for the work enviropnment our laptops are deployed into.
we dont' work in a mosh pit for the goddess's sake
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
what do you have that still uses Mini USB?
A DS3
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@aliceif said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
what do you have that still uses Mini USB?
A DS3
hmmm....
that's either a Dual Shock 3 Playstation controller....... or.... the Nintendo 3ds according to wikipedia's disambiguation page.
there are other options but they don't appear to make sense in context.
seriously the Dual Shock uses a miniUSB? i thought it was proprietary connector, like the 3DS
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
that's either a Dual Shock 3 Playstation controller....... or.... the Nintendo 3ds according to wikipedia's disambiguation page.
Or a small European car.
@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
seriously the Dual Shock uses a miniUSB?
Yes.
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
seriously the Dual Shock uses a miniUSB?
Yes. SONY aren't Nintendo, you know.
Also, the DS4 uses micro USB.
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@aliceif said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Yes. SONY aren't Nintendo, you know.
i was aware of the difference, but never having owned a game console that wasn't handheld i'm a bit out of touch with the consoles
~huh.... i wonder why the newer dual shocks didn't switch to the microUSB format, it's a lot less prone to break than the miniUSb form.~
oh... they did. nvm
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
seriously the Dual Shock uses a miniUSB? i thought it was proprietary connector, like the 3DS
Sony normally uses standard connectors; it's the storage where they keep inventing their own proprietary shit like UMD
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@accalia said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
the mini USB spec was shite anyway.
microUSB was much better.
what do you have that still uses Mini USB?I meant Micro-USB. Whatever the hell the S6 Edge has. The connector is shit for smartphones. Not durable enough.
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@Polygeekery I found this one somewhere, and they're actually pretty nice. Reversible too.
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@sloosecannon They are only 3'. I need a 6' one for the bedroom due to my tendency to watch YouTube videos while laying in bed. That is probably the reason that I kill them so quickly. The ones I keep on my desk and in my car last longer.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
the S6 Edge gas.
Samsung what kind of feature is this ... a fartphone of all things!
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@Luhmann said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Samsung what kind of feature is this ... a fartphone of all things!
It is a phone with shitty autocorrect. Grrrrrrr.
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@Gurth said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@Grunnen said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
the original Macintosh keyboard:
Except that it isn’t — the one you picture was apparently offered with the Mac II and SE (says Wikipedia). This is the keyboard that came with the first models of Mac:
Not sure what technology is underneath the keys, but I own a Mac Plus whose keyboard feels like it uses some kind of mechanical switch, so I suppose the earlier model might have as well.
Apparently both the Mac M0110 (the small, original one) and the Apple Standard Keyboard used Alps keyswitches. I've heard they can easily catch dirt and become "gritty", though I've never used such a keyboard.
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@Polygeekery said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
@sloosecannon They are only 3'. I need a 6' one for the bedroom due to my tendency to watch YouTube videos while laying in bed. That is probably the reason that I kill them so quickly. The ones I keep on my desk and in my car last longer.
Scroll down a bit to find the 6ft model.
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@abarker said in Mechanical keyboards, now available at food trucks:
Scroll down a bit to find the 6ft model.
Thanks. Although, that is a pretty shit way to show your products, but I guess all that IGG offers for an option.