Break the brakes
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I disagreed with the mechanism by which they accomodate the difference in wheel speed.
Yeah but my point was only that they allowed it, not how. ;)
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Yeah but my point was only that they allowed it, not how.
And my point was that a locked diff (real 4WD, not AWD nonsense) does not allow it. The wheels just slip on the road.
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And MY point was shut the fuck up with your stupid conversation, I want to hear restaurant recommendations.
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And my point was that a locked diff (real 4WD, not AWD nonsense) does not allow it. The wheels just slip on the road.
Where did you say the diff was locked, other than this post which happened later?
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My point was, no one gives a shit what you think.
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I said 4WD, not AWD. To me, that means locked diffs.
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WE'RE NOT MIND READERS, FART, etc.
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I thought that "no Euroweenie pretend 4WD" was implied. ;)
This is 'murica son. The only thing bigger than our guns are our trucks.
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The only thing bigger than our guns are our trucks.
I hear someone saying he needs bigger gunsâŚ
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Implied, Lisa, or implode?
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This is 'murica son. The only thing bigger than our guns are our trucks.
âI was having dinnerâŚin LondonâŚwhen eventually he got, as the Europeans always do, to the part about âYour countryâs never been invaded.â And so I said, âLet me tell you who those bad guys are. Theyâre us. WE BE BAD. Weâre the baddest-assed sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. Weâre three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and descended from a stock market crash on our motherâs side. You take your Germany, France, and Spain, roll them all together and it wouldnât give us room to park our cars. Weâre the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap dâAntibes. And weâve got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go. You say our countryâs never been invaded? Youâre right, little buddy. Because Iâd like to see the needle-dicked foreigners whoâd have the guts to try. We drink napalm to get our hearts started in the morning. A rape and a mugging is our way of saying 'Cheerio.' Hell canât hold our sock-hops.
We walk taller, talk louder, spit further, fuck longer and buy more things than you know the names of. Iâd rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen, and jack of all Europeans. We eat little countries like this for breakfast and shit them out before lunch.â
â P.J. O'Rourke, Holidays In Hell
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What chain restaurant serves-up the ABS?
Jesus shut up about the fucking cars, who gives a fuck.
And MY point was shut the fuck up with your stupid conversation, I want to hear restaurant recommendations.
The thread is called "Break the brakes" and is clearly about cars. If you want restaurant recommendations, go to the restaurant recommendation thread.
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go to the restaurant recommendation thread.
Very crowded. Rude/insidious wait staff. Ordered my own intestines served with a existential-crisis reduction. Tasty, but was served too hot. 3/5.
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Weâre three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck
Americans have always had a somewhat iffy relationship with maths.
Weâre the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time.
I think Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Rome, and Greece would like to have a word with the US about it's lack of respect for its elders. And that's just the European shortlist.
weâve got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go.
More of those maths problems, again.
You say our countryâs never been invaded? Youâre right, little buddy. Because Iâd like to see the needle-dicked foreigners whoâd have the guts to try.
Canada. They burned down the Capitol and the White House because we annoyed them while Britain was busy dealing with Napolean.
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Maybe it's an American Express Black card?
I think the point of that is that there isn't a (defined) limit, so that doesn't really count.
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Facts jokes.
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@Polygeekery said:
Not necessarily. That is why it says to only use 4WD on slippery road conditions, so that the wheels can slip if/when they turn at slightly different rates.
Though, in fairness, on my vehicle that is only when the center differential is locked, which is what I consider to be "true 4WD". With the diff unlocked, it does what you say, but you do not get near the traction in really slippery conditions. With the diff unlocked, it attempts to use the ABS to keep the wheels from spinning or locking and in deep snow or slick ice it works rather poorly.
Um, hate to rain on your parade here, but ABS does have the ability to control the braking force for each wheel independently. It's called "four-channel ABS".
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Um, hate to rain on your parade here, but ABS does have the ability to control the braking force for each wheel independently. It's called "four-channel ABS".
I know it does, but in my experience when driving on really slippery conditions, 4WD still works better. (real 4WD, not that Euroweenie AWD stuff )
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Driving, maybe. You were talking about braking and that's what I responded to.
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Um, hate to rain on your parade here, but ABS does have the ability to control the braking force for each wheel independently. It's called "four-channel ABS".
@PolyGeekery's car only has brakes on one wheel. He has to lock the diff every time he slows down.
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I was talking about braking also.
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I was talking about braking also.
4WD doesn't really make a difference when braking. How could it? 4WD is concerned with applying an accelerative force to each wheel while braking is concerned with deceleration. The two systems are not interconnected in any way, save that they're in the same vehicle.
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Is engine braking improved by 4WD?
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@PolyGeekery's car only has brakes on one wheel. He has to lock the diff every time he slows down
At least my thought experiment vehicle has an engine. ;-)
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4WD is concerned with applying an accelerative force to each wheel
How does it do that?
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@Rhywden said:
4WD is concerned with applying an accelerative force to each wheel
How does it do that?
Counterquestion: How do the brakes work?
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The two systems are not interconnected in any way, save that they're in the same vehicle.
Connected to the same axles, the same driveshafts, the same differentials, etc.
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Connected to the same axles, the same driveshafts, the same differentials, etc.
In which universe are brakes connected to the axles or the driveshaft?
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In which universe are brakes connected to the axles
This one.
As for driveshaft, this one also, but not passenger cars, usually.
I am beginning to think you don't know shit about cars...
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Uh, you do know that "hydraulics" are for?
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Not just inboard brakes, brake discs or drums are sandwiched between the wheel and axle on most vehicles, so his question was especially stupid considering I cannot think of a normal passenger vehicle where the brakes are not attached to the axle.
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Not just inboard brakes, brake discs or drums are sandwiched between the wheel and axle on most vehicles, so his question was especially stupid.
Well, I'm not the moron incapable of explaining why a 4WD would increase braking capabilities when said braking capabilities are limited by the wheels' contact to the road.
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braking capabilities are limited by the wheels contact to the road.
I never said it wasn't. I just said that 4WD distributes the braking load the same as it does accelerative forces.
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@Rhywden said:
braking capabilities are limited by the wheels contact to the road.
I never said it wasn't. I just said that 4WD distributes the braking load the same as it does accelerative forces.
And it does this better than ABS by what magical fairy dust?
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But you are the moron that said brakes aren't attached to axles. ;)
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I just said that 4WD distributes the braking load
If you lock the diffs, which as we're aware, isn't recommended for normal road use.
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But you are the moron that said brakes aren't attached to axles. ;)
I said "connected" - and what I meant by that was: "not powered by the 4WD system". Plus, you're failing to see that your precious counterargument in reality isn't one.
Because those precious axle and shaft connections of yours? They're also existing in non-4WD-systems. And since we already established that ABS is capable of braking each of the 4 wheels independently, it's especially non-clear why a 4WD should pose any advantage.
I also note that you're pathologically incapable of bringing any positive arguments to the table as to where your advantage actually lies. I thus posit that you're full of it.
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If you lock the diffs, which as we're aware, isn't recommended for normal road use.
No arguments there. On dry pavement, or even in the rain, ABS is by far the better choice. If you remember, this all started with someone quoting Consumer Reports in reference to snow and ice.
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Which still does not explain how 4WD would hold any advantage over ABS.
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Which still does not explain how 4WD would hold any advantage over ABS.
Because when @Polygeekery says 4WD he means the specific scenario where all 4 wheels can only turn at the same rate, in which case, the braking force is distributed because slowing down 1 wheel slows down the other 3.
But that's not a typical scenario because that's not a recommended way to use a 4WD on any surface with a reasonable amount of grip.
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@Rhywden said:
Which still does not explain how 4WD would hold any advantage over ABS.
Because when @Polygeekery he means the specific scenario where all 4 wheels can only turn at the same rate, in which case, the braking force is distributed because slowing down 1 wheel slows down the other 3.
That's not exactly a "better" scenario - that's a "least common denominator" scenario which reduces deceleration.
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You're still wrong, though. This comes from 20+ years of experience doing real offroad and heavy snow conditions in real offroad vehicles.
If you do not have your diffs locked, your wheels can spin at different rates. To the point where you can have one wheel spinning forwards, another backwards, and another 2 static. It's called unwinding the diff, and it happens just as much on 4wd as 2wd.
If you have your diffs locked, your wheels all spin at exactly the same rate. It's really bad idea to do this on tarmac, as you will eat your tyres. That screeching and jumping - that's the sound of expensive drivetrain work and tyre imminent replacement. There is exactly one use for this mode - to get out of a situation where you've bogged one or more wheels (or are likely to).
Locked diffs will not, and do not, help braking. All they will do is ensure all your wheels are turning at the same rate, regardless of whether they are sliding. All that screeching and jumping that happens on tarmac when you've got your diff locks engaged? That's what's happening when you're driving on snow with your diff locks engaged, except the screeching and jumping is replaced by sliding.
If you're stupid enough to try and rely on locked diffs to somehow improve your braking, you might get away with it most of the time. But be aware that you've probably got one or more wheels sliding, not braking; when you get to 3 wheels sliding (and sometimes just 2), your super 4x4 starts doing pirouettes like a ballerina...
ABS, on the other hand, keep your wheels turning, and not sliding, thus braking.
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We eat little countries like this for breakfast and shit them out before lunch
And yet somehow a bunch of little guys in funny hats and black pyjamas had you shitting your pants and fleeing off the roof of the Saigon embassy.
Filed under: Operation Breaking Wind
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Because those precious axle and shaft connections of yours? They're also existing in non-4WD-systems.
I don't think you know what the fuck 4WD is. You fucking retard, you really cannot see the difference between 2WD and 4WD with respect to how the axles and differentials are different?
Please, do not ever attempt to change your own oil. Ever.
I also note that you're pathologically incapable of bringing any positive arguments to the table as to where your advantage actually lies. I thus posit that you're full of it.
I thus posit that you are too ignorant of vehicles and how they work to ever be trusted to judge any of this.
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Which still does not explain how 4WD would hold any advantage over ABS.
Listen very carefully: In deep snow, or on ice, 4WD keeps all of the wheels turning at the same rate. That allows you to stop straight, and it helps to prevent wheels from locking by distributing excess braking force before a wheel has a chance to lock.
I am not talking about dry asphalt here. This all started with some idiot quoting Consumer Reports as though they are some experts on physics and then making an absolute statement that 4WD does not help braking at all, which is pendantically false.
I realize you don't know shit about cars or drivetrains, so you are unable to see the distinction there, but there is one.
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But that's not a typical scenario because that's not a recommended way to use a 4WD on any surface with a reasonable amount of grip.
And I never said that it was. ;)