We searched Medline, Embase and Cochrane for the phrase bots are not funny
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To be fair, @blakeyrat has toned it down somewhat.
And in his defense, isn't this whole tdwtf community historically based on the premise of pointing out flaws in other programmers, and laughing at them?
I think the question is whether you do that in a mean spirited, negative way, or in a lighthearted, "we're all sucky programmers at some level, and everyone should be embarrassed by their old code" way.
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There's reason gossip is always referred as "talking behind their back". That way base human instinct of poking fun at others is fulfilled, and the person in question is not hurt. It's different when doing it in their face. That's just being a dick.
Also, there's the added layer of Discourse-haters having to keep interacting and cooperating with people they are criticizing. For someone who likes bringing up empathy or lack of thereof, that's a pretty major point to miss. If someone was treating me that way on my project, I would have told them to go to hell a long time ago.
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Maybe @a
Or, dunno, let them post only in the Bot Testing category? That ain't hard, people.
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since Discourse already killed-off the community I liked and replaced it with this crappy one.
You do have a very distorded sense of what's going on. All I see around here is people putting up with your crap, like with any highschool bully.
As for this "community", it's just a forum we all use for fun and entertainment. I like to bash on Discourse because, not because it's crap. This place hasn't been this active since Discourse, and I've been around here for a long time. So yes, @apapadimoulis made the right call. And for something that is free and by volunteers, TheDailyWTF is a win for the Internet, and I don't see you collaborating to make it better (insulting accalia because of her bot is not collaboration).
Anyway, take a look at reddit, 4chan or any other community. All of them are crap, filled with ignorants. Here at least you know the person on the other side has the same interests and knowledge to laugh at your miseries.
So, everyone, keep it coming and don't let haters like this guy keep you away.
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What do I gain from it?
Well, seeing as you're an empathetic human being, I've got to assume that you don't like hurting people. Although, I suppose I shouldn't oversell the extent to which you're upsetting me – I fell like I've pretty much solved my own issues just by saying all this. Still, if you do at some point choose to constrain your hate for discourse to more of a respectful antagonism, and not to let it spill over onto people whose only crime was liking (or at least not actively disliking) the thing, I just want you to know that I would appreciate that.
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Moderation, in moderation, is a very good thing.
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I highly suggest you guys make some basic polices and enforce them amongst yourselves -- ideally by appointing (or voting in) some more mods. I noticed a few extra people have shields lately..We have all of these things already. Also, the philosophy of the community has been (for a long time) that it should be self regulating. So we get threads like this occasionally.
That Lord of the Flies no-stupid-rules anything-goes libertarian paradise.. is a fantasy.
Yes, a fantasy of statist retards and ignoramuses who like straw men.
This cartoon annoys me because in the "real" libertarian world, the swimmers would be paying the lifeguard, so he would help them.
Eh...they would have helped each other, too. Or the lifeguard just wouldn't be the sort of helpless dick that statist retards and ignoramuses assume all people are without authority to tell them what to do.
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I feel like I should say something, since I've been explicitly called out.
For the record, I don't think @blakeyrat overreacted at all, and I find the simile of rubbing a dog's nose on feces very appropriate. (I have no way to prove I'm not being sarcastic, so you'll just have to trust me on this)
While I have undoubtedly contributed to the derailing on the topic, I won't be held responsible for starting it (because I didn't). Nor will I accept guilt for the continued derailing after I chose to move my business elsewhere.
As far as I can tell, I was the first to recognize the derailing and I apologized for that.
I was glad when @boomzilla moved the posts to where they belong. It did not occur to me at the time that I could flag the posts as off-topic. I would have done so if it did.
Of course, the best case scenario would be that I didn't make the posts in the first place, but turns out I'm human and I make mistakes.
I don't think the moderators should have to type a long post saying, "hey, BTW? Keep the bot bullshit that only a couple people like in the topic specifically created for the bot bullshit that only a couple people like so everybody else can ignore it." I think that's basic fucking common sense.
I agree inI think you think that too, because I'm not willing to believe you're either that stupid or that sociopathic to not think that. Same goes to @Zecc.
nullfull.(professionally idiosyncratic typo. Left it in because I think you can relate and find it mildly funny)
You guys aren't assholes, you're just acting like assholes.
First, you should leave @accalia out of this because it's not her fault.Second, I agree with the sentiment behind this. Heck I'll even agree with the choice of word, as long as you don't think I was being an intentional asshole, just an oblivious one. And I did show restraint.
Post finished. You may now resume with your not giving a fuck.
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The easier way would be to use the forum's built-in category security and groups to block them.
Actually it wouldn't. Permissions are based on "Allow X" - there isn't a "Disallow X" except by implication and there isn't an X or set of X's (which wouldn't require constant maintainance) which contains every member that isn't in group bots. For example, one of the more complicated security rule-sets we have on here is this:
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How are trust levels set up? Would it be possible to make it so bots can never gain certain trust levels?
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Would it be possible to make it so bots can never gain certain trust levels?
Yes, but...
Punitive measures against idiots - locking trust level
OK, trust level locking is now in, you can lock anyone at any trust level! Rumor is @codinghorror is planning trustholing a problem user as well, so we now know of at least 2 places where this feature will be used 🙂 Keep in mind once you trusthole a user, they are locked there forever until you...
it wouldn't solve anything. Locking bots to TLx and rule-setting most categories to "TLx read only, TLx+1 read/write" would also affect new users, and if they're unable to post, they cannot progress past TLx.
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Right, would be pretty pointless. Especially if people want to keep the bots out of article - that's probably a key location where we get new posters.
Did we even discuss which categories this would be about? @accalia suggested article, but I'm not too sure about that. I suggested meta, as I feel meta discussions should stay serious and bots have no place there. I haven't seen any opinions from anyone else.
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As for this "community", it's just a forum we all use for fun and entertainment. I like to bash on Discourse because, not because it's crap. This place hasn't been this active since Discourse, and I've been around here for a long time. So yes, @apapadimoulis made the right call.
You're answering the wrong question here. It's arguable that Discourse is better than what we had, but I don't think anyone here (except the discodevs and Alex) would claim it was our best feasible alternative.
Eh...they would have helped each other, too. Or the lifeguard just wouldn't be the sort of helpless dick that statist retards and ignoramuses assume all people are without authority to tell them what to do.
I think projection is the key word here.
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If someone was treating me that way on my project, I would have told them to go to hell a long time ago.
Wouldn't it be great if they did tell us to go to hell? If they pulled the software from this site and fucked off? That's basically my ideal scenario at this point. Alas, it's open source, so also impossible.
This place hasn't been this active since Discourse, and I've been around here for a long time. So yes, @apapadimoulis made the right call.
Ok; so you have the "A" portion of your A/B test, where's the "B"? Where's the evidence the activity wouldn't have increased had Alex gone with VBulletin or PHPBB or whatever?
And for something that is free and by volunteers, TheDailyWTF is a win for the Internet, and I don't see you collaborating to make it better (insulting accalia because of her bot is not collaboration).
If you didn't see me collaborate a few weeks ago, then you're blind. And my "reward" for collaborating and agreeing to let some of my material get on the front page was being doxxed. Whee.
So I won't be doing that again.
Well, seeing as you're an empathetic human being, I've got to assume that you don't like hurting people.
I can't control people's emotions. If some random idiot on the Internet who you don't even know says you smell bad, and you feel bad, that's your problem, not the idiot's.
Welcome to the Internet.
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for collaborating and agreeing to let some of my material get on the front page was being doxxed
Sorry, but I have no idea of what you're writing about. I might have missed something.
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Basically, some asshole doxxed blakeyrat, risking him getting fired. As harsh as he can be, he didn't do anything to deserve it, he just left too many details in the
storyphoto and someone figured it out.
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he just left too many details in the story and someone figured it out.
It wasn't even that, it was the goddamned GPS data in the photo. Which I specifically checked for before I approved the article for publication-- but what I didn't know is this fucking shitty forum keeps two copies of any uploaded image, and only strips meta-data from one of them. Because it's a piece of shit developed by idiots. (Oh cry for the poor Discourse developers! Cry for them Argentina!)
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Oh! The cubicle photo... yeah, that sucked.
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It's pretty pathetic that when presented with an image, the immediate reaction of some people is to go HERP DERP LET'S CHECK EXIF DATA I'M SO CLEVER DERP.
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Of course, but this is the Internet and it's full of those people. 4chan wouldn't exist without them.
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Oh! The cubicle photo... yeah, that sucked.
Hm. I remember the photo, but didn't realize someone extracted the metadata out of it. I must have missed where that happened, too.
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It's pretty pathetic that when presented with an image
Unfortunately, it happens--and it's not just to him. Adam Savage had that happen a year or two ago, when he posted a picture of his car right outside his house.
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Hm. I remember the photo, but didn't realize someone extracted the metadata out of it. I must have missed where that happened, too.
I missed it too, but I do remember the original post disappearing into an area it was inaccessible for a couple of days shortly after the article came out. Presumably related to this incident.
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I'll bet. I don't remember it disappearing, but I don't usually bother keeping a running list of active threads, and since there's so many at one time I might not have even noticed it vanish.
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I only noticed because I tried to click the topic from the article, and Discourse said no.
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I was just swinging my fists, it's everyone else's fault for putting their face there.
Whatever. I've said what I wanted to say. This thread isn't about me anyway, it's about you and Accalia. Be a fucking adult, own up to what you've done, and lets resolve this, imho.
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Caveat: I am not joking at all here in this post. The levity knob is turned down to negative 10 here.
I can't control people's emotions. If some random idiot on the Internet who you don't even know says you smell bad, and you feel bad, that's your problem, not the idiot's.
Blakey, You and i do not get along. I'm not going to pretend otherwise, but this bullshit has got to stop. You are abusing me, and the disco devs, and everyone else here in a way that if you were working at my place of employment would cause me to open abuse grievance charges against you with HR and/or an external lawyer.
Twice now your hateful bile has driven me to almost quit this community that i genuinely love interacting with. In each of those instances your hateful comments have caused me real, physical anguish. The first time, and i admit it was not only your doing, was when @sam did his self imposed ban. The second was the event that triggered you to open this thread and triggered me to call my therapist for the first time in five years.
so thanks for that.
Your words cause real physical hurt to people, and if you refuse to or are incapable of admitting then you desperately need psychiatric attention.
You are a prime example of an abuser. You shout hate, you spew bile. you seem to enjoy the pain and misery it causes. If this is the case then, please, for everyone's sake seek medical attention for that.
It is never the fault of the abused that they are being hurt, either physcicaly or verbally. It is always the fault of the abuser, and right now you are that abuser.
And, again, if you refuse to or are incapable of realizing how much your words can, and do, hurt others; SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION.
@accalia is going to go away now and think long and hard about wether she wants to remain a part of a community that has you in it, as much as I enjoy being a part of this community and, with a lone exception, everyone i have interacted with here, that lone exception has caused me more pain, and mental anguish than the entirety of my senior year of high school.
If I decide to remain a part of this community you can all be thankful that my love of the community has, this time at least, overridden my desire to be as far as possible away from @blakeyrat
http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/sticks-and-stones-both-hurt/4910/3
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What can I say. I don't have the telepathic ability to know how you feel as a result of reading my words. Nor do I have the telepathic ability to know whether changing my words would change how you feel. I do not possess those supernatural abilities. Sorry?
I refuse to feel bad about something I have zero control over.
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I refuse to feel bad about something I have zero control over.
You really are a treasure aren't you?
@blakeyrat said:You know why? Because on the old forum, people apparently had the power of human empathy-- that ability to know when they were being a dick to someone, and to realize, "hey, maybe I shouldn't be a dick to someone!"
Try not being an absolute ....
no i will not sink to your level and descend into petty name calling and spewing swears for the sake ow swearing.
You ascribe the ability to be empathetic and the ability to know when we are being a dick to someone; to use your exact words; to the TDWTF community
I put to you that in this entire thread and indeed EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION I HAVE HAD WITH YOU IN THE PAST TWO WEEKS you have shown a distinct lack of this ability.
Clearly this thread can contain no further useful conversation as you are either incapable or realizing how big of a dick you are being her or refuse to stop being a dick and i refuse to put up with you being a dick. I an asking for this thread to be closed as non helpful so at least the shouting back and forth will stop.
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You ascribe the ability to be empathetic and the ability to know when we are being a dick to someone; to use your exact words; to the TDWTF community
Right, but sticks and stones, remember? I've mentioned it like 4 times in this thread; it's a lesson everybody learned in kindergarten... right? Am I crazy?
The mysterious thing to me is, why do you care what I think? You don't even know who the hell I am. You'll go your entire life without ever meeting me. So how is anything I'm typing here a problem?
I an asking for this thread to be closed as non helpful so at least the shouting back and forth will stop.
Well it's my thread. But do what you think you need to do, I guess.
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Right, but sticks and stones, remember? I've mentioned it like 4 times in this thread; it's a lesson everybody learned in kindergarten... right? Am I crazy?
"Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"
is this the folk adage that has been proven wrong in study after study after study THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO?
It's called cyberbullying and it's just as bad as IRL bullying.
But don't take my word for it. Look it up yourself. heres a link to get you started so you can start learning about what it is that you are doing here and why it is not okay.
http://www.getcybersafe.gc.ca/wrdshrt/index-eng.aspx
You are a bully and I'm calling you out on it. and if you don't like it then you can:
- Complain to the mods
- Stop bullying myself and everyone else on this forum
- Leave
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@accalia is going to go away now and think long and hard about wether she wants to remain a part of a community that has you in it, as much as I enjoy being a part of this community and, with a lone exception, everyone i have interacted with here, that lone exception has caused me more pain, and mental anguish than the entirety of my senior year of high school.
This would be a really good time for that mute feature ... still waiting on the discodevs to finish their spec decisions though. :'(
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it's a lesson everybody learned in kindergarten... right? Am I crazy?
Clearly not, and apparently you are.
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I'm not sure if I have the social finesse to say what I'm about to without hurting anyone, but I'll do my best.
@accalia, back when Arantor and Blakey were fighting a couple things were brought up that I didn't pay super close attention to, but I feel that they might be relevant here, so I guess it's a pity that @Arantor isn't around right now. One is that blakeyrat is a persona, presumably in the same sense that accalia is a persona. The other is that he has suffered from depression. So without minimizing or ignoring the hurt that you feel, I would like to request that you also take care not to hurt blakeyrat, by making strong assertions about who he is or trying to make him give up this persona that he is obviously quite attached to.
One of the things that I am hearing from blakeyrat (thought I might just be projecting again – one of the things that drew me to this forum was the idea that I could act like an unrepentant asshole here and not have to worry about anyone taking it personally), is that on the old forums, trolling was the norm, and it was accepted that you could make passionate arguments during a thread and still come away with no hard feelings at the end of it (basically the difference between ‘sport’ and ‘violence’).
I am pretty sure that blakey never meant to hurt you, and now that he knows that he did hurt you, I am confident that the two of you can resolve this without anyone having to leave the forum.
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Right, but sticks and stones, remember? I've mentioned it like 4 times in this thread; it's a lesson everybody learned in kindergarten... right? Am I crazy?
The mysterious thing to me is, why do you care what I think? You don't even know who the hell I am. You'll go your entire life without ever meeting me. So how is anything I'm typing here a problem?
So if people pick on you, or inconvenience you, it'seems their problem. But if you are verbally abusive to another member, causing them to seek therapy, it's their problem? That seems like a huge double standard to me.
By the way,you're "you don't know me" argument doesn't hold up due another double standard issue.You're afraid to leave this forum because of what people might say or do. People you don't know.
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So without minimizing or ignoring the hurt that you feel, I would like to request that you also take care not to hurt blakeyrat, by making strong assertions about who he is or trying to make him give up this persona that he is obviously quite attached to.
Meh.
is that on the old forums, trolling was the norm, and it was accepted that you could make passionate arguments during a thread and still come away with no hard feelings at the end of it (basically the difference between ‘sport’ and ‘violence’).
Yeah what people aren't getting here is that this all changed out from underneath me.
But if you are verbally abusive to another member, causing them to seek therapy, it's their problem?
I don't have any control over how people react to things they read. Even worse: I don't even have any knowledge of it.
You're afraid to leave this forum
Oh yeah I'm shivering in my boots.
because of what people might say or do. People you don't know.
Gasp! What a hypocrite I am!
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One of the things that I am hearing from blakeyrat (thought I might just be projecting again – one of the things that drew me to this forum was the idea that I could act like an unrepentant asshole here and not have to worry about anyone taking it personally), is that on the old forums, trolling was the norm, and it was accepted that you could make passionate arguments during a thread and still come away with no hard feelings at the end of it (basically the difference between ‘sport’ and ‘violence’).
You have a point, but @blakeyrat has been taking it beyond passionate arguments lately. Generally, people on here are empathetic enough to tone it down enough when politely asked. But what did @Blakeyrat do when @accalia asked him to tone down the swearing? Oh, right, he mocked her and increased his swearing.
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Hey @blakeyrat, remember when you told me in a PM when we had our big blow up that:
if you ever see me doing anything repetitive and unfunny for the sole purpose of annoying a single person, by all means, call me out on it.I'd deserve a brow-beating over that.
Well, now is that time and you deserve a brow-beating. You are just being mean. This is not good natured trolling or ribbing.
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Yeah what people aren't getting here is that this all changed out from underneath me.
Ah, so in your twisted evil mind, that validates your lashing out at everyone.
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But what did @Blakeyrat do when @accalia asked him to tone down the swearing? Oh, right, he mocked her and increased his swearing.
That's what everybody does on this forum! I'm not the first person to do that here; I'm not even the 20th!
@Intercourse said:
Well, now is that time and you deserve a brow-beating. You are just being mean. This is not good natured trolling or ribbing.
This situation could not be more different than the one that PM was about. For one thing, if Accalia doesn't want to read this thread she only has to... uh... not read this thread? (Again: this is a thing I have no control over. She chose to read this thread and post to it. Many times.) I'm not following her around into other threads for the sole purpose of spamming and harassing her, like you were.
But hey, whatever. Get your hate-on. Go spew the vile. I love it.
At least if you guys dogpile all over me on this it's a little more relevant than when you do it over, say, me saying HyperCard was a good programming environment, or describing coordinate systems by contorting your hand, or any of the other stupid shit people have dogpiled me over.
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Oh yeah I'm shivering in my boots.
Just paraphrasing what you said:
I can't quit now for any reason because everybody would be like, "Blakeyrat rage quit again LOLOLOLOL let's do a pool on what he gets back LOLOLOLOLOL!" I have my dignity, damn it.
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Just paraphrasing what you said:
Right; but the emotion expressed there is not fear, it's more spite.
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or any of the other stupid shit people have dogpiled me over.
Ah, so you're justified in bullying people. Got it.
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I am not going to engage you. You have your persona cranked up to 11. Not worth my time. Just because it is a different set of base circumstances does not mean you are not in the wrong and you are not browbeating someone who does not deserve it.
I will say one final thing, and then I am done in this thread for good. I am not going to get dragged in to this quagmire.
My mother was married 7 times in her lifetime. She always claimed that she could not find a good man, etc. That is all bullshit though. She was the problem, because she was a massive bitch. If you have been married once or twice, it could be the fault of others. If you have been married 7 times, you are the only common denominator.
All of the recent blowups and strife on this forum, at least that I have seen, have had you at the center of them. You appear, at least to me, to be the common denominator. Yeah, the forum has changed. It is a lot more active. There are more people here. You don't like it. You can either change, and not be such a fucking asshole to everyone, or you can go someplace that can handle this persona of yours that you have built up (I would suggest 4Chan, the blakeyrat persona would feel right at home there).
If you find yourself blaming EVERYONE else for the problem, there is a really good chance that YOU are the problem.
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@Intercourse said:
If you have been married 7 times, you are the only common denominator.
I once read somewhere a quote by someone, maybe a Heinlein character, who said something like "if there's more than about 3 stone-cold scumbag asshole rotten people in your life, it might be that you are actually the problem."
Edit: oops, that's more or less what you said.
But I think you're right and engagement is just a waste of time--he's clearly trying to ramp up another flamefest by playing the victim here.
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this all changed out from underneath me.
Yeah, but I remain optimistic that we can return to something like that (well, I guess for me it's more of an idealized fictional representation of what it was like, cosidering I never posted on cs).
Hence my involvement in this thread, because, like you said in the op, what it all hinges on is people's ability to admit that they've gone too far after getting their nose rubbed in it, apologize, and try not to do that shit again.
I'm not following her around into other threads for the sole purpose of spamming and harassing her
Regardless, you are in every thread, and in every thread you've been in you have been harrassing her. Please, just try and acknowledge the reality here.
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Blakeyrat:
Yeah what people aren't getting here is that this all changed out from underneath me.
Of course, the forum changed out from under the rest of us, and we mostly got over it. Yeah, this has got all kinds of annoyances, but generally people either quit, or adapted. In a lot of ways, Discourse is an improvement on CS, and it annoys me that I have to admit it.
Lots of people coped. Are you some kind of (WARNING FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR SHOULDER ALIENS: METAPHOR ALERT) dinosaur, who can't?
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Regardless, you are in every thread, and in every thread you've been in you have been harrassing her.
Prove that.
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>Eldelshell:
Anyway, how many @blakeyrat there are? Because it must be exhausting to be a dickhead in so many different threads at the same time.
I'm the wind, baby.
Blow me.
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Ok, that last post was a bit glib, I'm sorry. That joke was a missed opportunity that had been bothering me for weeks, and when I saw a chance to post it I just went for it.
It's possible what you're saying is that you still don't understand how you ended up hurting accalia in the first place, and, not knowing, can't be sure it won't happen again. If so, my advice would be to not over-analyze it. Read through her posts in this thread one more time, with the assumption this time that her points are at least as valid as yours were (everyone here seems to agree). Try to understand where she's coming from. Then go back to being the only person on this forum who doesn't like the bots, and count on your sense of empathy (or failing that, literally every person on this forum) to let you know if you take things too far again.
To be clear here @blakeyrat, I am suggesting that apologizing to accalia will be good for your own well-being, in that this could mean the difference between sitting on your own when the black days come, wondering what the point of anything is if you're apparently some kind of monster who is incapable of compassion, or being able to say “well, I'm kind of a jerk, but there's a forum full of people who respect me for it anyway”. But more importantly, it will be good for accalia, because she's hurting right now, and just by acknowledging that, even if you don't understand it yet, you can start the process of helping her feel better.
