This is apparently not a joke: http://www.nomorejavascript.com/
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.....that website is blocked at work. WTF.
(Is it new? My domains get blocked for 2 weeks after being registered, then the block is lifted once they're shown not to be botnets or malware-infested sites)
Domain Name: NOMOREJAVASCRIPT.COM Registry Domain ID: 1882244800_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com Registrar URL: www.enom.com Updated Date: 2014-10-26 10:36:47Z Creation Date: 2014-10-26 17:36:00Z Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-10-26 17:36:00Z [snip]
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Well we've only seen it 437,843 times here, why not post it again and make it an even 437,844.
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No sane person who have developed in JavaScript would defend this with a straight face.
Are you saying that because Javascript is a minefield of compatibility issues now, that adding more languages somehow wouldn't make it worse?
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So sick of all these Silicon Valley douchebags trying to get funding for their stupid, utterly pointless projects. If he's actually unaware of all the other Javascript "replacement" languages he doesn't belong in the industry.
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nah. i'll wait a few days so it has an "almost newish kinda look to it.
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Personally I like the idea itself (replacing javascript), but not the way they propose.
FWIW, my hope would be that it's replaced with something closer to "bytecode" / a well defined virtual machine (obviously, I'm not referring to the JVM here).
Then let people code in whatever language they want (and happen to have a compiler for).
You could even define up some javascript analog to be the reference language (and have browsers ship with built-in interpretors/compilers for that language).
But .. whatever.
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FWIW, my hope would be that it's replaced with something closer to "bytecode"
Why bother when you can generate native code from JS these days (apparently)?
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Anyway for all it odd things, JS is probably one of my favourite languages. Keep away from the WTF parts of it and you are fine.
Replace JS with almost1 any language of choice, and you still have a true statement.
1 Guaranteed not to work with PHP2.
2 That one's for you, @Arantor.
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Why bother when you can generate native code from JS these days (apparently)?
The goal was more to give people a saner option to target their code-generators / compilers towards. I.e., if you want to use a ... Haskell-derivate to code your browser stuff, you have to generate JS code at some point. It'd be much nicer to be able to target something slightly more sane. Same goes for the Ruby folks, etc etc. It'd also put stop to people like those linked in the OP, since they'd be able to roll their own language+compiler that targets the VM.
On the other hand, there's plenty of compile-stuff-to-JS projects around, so maybe that's not a problem. It just seems silly to always take the detour via JS (and whatever parses JS).
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It'd also put stop to people like those linked in the OP, since they'd be able to roll their own language+compiler that targets the VM.
But they'd probably still be stuck with the basic semantics of the VM. That sort of thing is pretty pernicious, one of these things that is theoretically replaceable (thanks to Turing-equivalence, etc.) but practically never seems to work out quite like that. It's possible to work around it, but it makes everything rather more complex!
One of the main routes to writing a compiler is to target your own language-specific VM first. It can be a horrible inefficient stack-based VM if you want. You can then use that as the place where you generate real code from (well, input into the next level down, such as LLVM IR or minified JS).
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(obviously, I'm not referring to the JVM here)
No, bring back the reign of the JVM, the one true god. Everything should be Java. Everything.
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I was really tempted to flag this post for being inappropriate.
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Please. I feel like @PJH's day has been too slow so far.
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I feel like we should have a flag that is specific to liking Java. Just so we can ostracize them.
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@Intercourse said:
I feel like we should have a flag that is specific to liking Java. Just so we can ostracize them.
I believe that's called the "Ban" button. I'm sure @PJH knows where it is.
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Discourse has exactly 2 almost good things: live thread updating and notifications.
FTFY. To make it actually good you'd have to get rid of fucking polling. If only there was something we could replace it with. And Discourse is built for the next ten years, if it only there were something that's supported already and probably will be for the foreseeable future...
For now. Perhaps one day Mr. Burns will be a well-known internet entity associated with TDWTF, like Anonymous and 4chan.
Does the "Archive my posts" button work yet? I want my royalties when that happens damn it!
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FWIW, my hope would be that it's replaced with something closer to "bytecode" / a well defined virtual machine (obviously, I'm not referring to the JVM here).
Well since JavaScript is JIT-compiled, that already kind of exists. Kind of.
Then let people code in whatever language they want (and happen to have a compiler for).
And yet you still have to deal with the DOM idiocy, no matter what languages you use. DOM sucks ass. Replacing JavaScript won't fix that, or alleviate the need for DOM libraries like jQuery. (Or I guess rQuery if you run Ruby, or pQuery for Python or, lQuery for Lua or...)
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FTFY. To make it actually good you'd have to get rid of fucking polling. If only there was something we could replace it with. And Discourse is built for the next ten years, if it only there were something that's supported already and probably will be for the foreseeable future...
I'm ok on the lack of websockets after Sam told me how many ISPs and proxies block them. (And yes, the blocking of websockets is a WTF, but that's not under Discourse's control.)
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I'm ok on the lack of websockets after Sam told me how many ISPs and proxies block them. (And yes, the blocking of websockets is a WTF, but that's not under Discourse's control.)
I actually forgot about that. Yeah, that's just fucking stupid.
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DOM sucks ass.
QFT. DOM doesn't suck quite as much ass in JS as in Java, but that's like comparing having root canal dental surgery done on 7 or 8 teeth at once.
Save yourself some time BTW: never use jQuery for XML. It doesn't work, but pretends it does.
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It sucks ass in C# too. Fortunately, C# has like 27 different ways to navigate XML files so you don't need to touch it if you don't want to.
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Does the "Archive my posts" button work yet? I want my royalties when that happens damn it!
What about mine?! I made it happen, damn it!
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FTFY. To make it actually good you'd have to get rid of fucking polling. If only there was something we could replace it with. And Discourse is built for the next ten years, if it only there were something that's supported already and probably will be for the foreseeable future...
They already said they aren't going to do websockets. They even have a topic ... somewhere ... about why.
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I don't remember where the topic was, but it sums to:
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A lot of ISPs/proxies block websockets, and that's not likely to change for a long time,
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Meaning the websocket system would need a polling fallback anyway
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And maintaining one system is easier than maintaining two
I give Discourse a lot of crap for being a broken buggy piece of shit, which is it, but I can't fault them on that particular issue. There are a million other things I can fault them on, for example, still not beating Community Server, a product abandoned in 2008, on features or usability.
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I'm ok on the lack of websockets after Sam told me how many ISPs and proxies block them. (And yes, the blocking of websockets is a WTF, but that's not under Discourse's control.)
So you use websockets when they're available and fall back to polling when you can't use websockets. Like, I don't know, SingalR1 does. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar library for RoR is available.
1 Yes, I know SignalR is .NET. Yes, I know Discourse is RoR. That's beside the point I was making.
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It was linked in the Likes topic (by you, no less), but it was posted on meta.d:
https://meta.discourse.org/t/why-does-discourse-not-use-web-sockets/18302
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Yeah, that sounds familiar.
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What about mine?! I made it happen, damn it!
I'm willing to share with anyone that can prove their involvement in the original... ehm... excursion to meta.d. I just want to make sure I don't get suckered out of my part.
They already said they aren't going to do websockets. They even have a topic ... somewhere ... about why.
I know. Does that mean I'm not allowed to bitch and complain? It is my basic human right never to be content, damn it!
Filed under: I also power alien starships as a bonus
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Considering Discourse is already 32,231 buggy open source libraries Lego-ed together, the last thing they need is another buggy open source library.
At some point when writing an application you have to write some fucking code.
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I was under the impression that web sockets over port 80 has had issues, but that running them on 443 did not have any issues?
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For anyone who wants to test if their ISP blocks web sockets: http://websocketstest.com/
I am all clear on Comcast.
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I couldn't tell you. I've not personally worked with WebSockets, only with the Frozen Mountain WebSync library and that seems to have no issue with it (but I also never was tasked with checking how it worked over SSL or just against a different port, so I don't know if it's always falling back or not).
I've not tried SignalR, but by their own description, it sounds like they do the same.
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http://websocketstest.com/ws/stats
6.62% aggregate failure rate according to their ~125K tests. That is a pretty high failure rate.
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93.38% success rate is great but I am disappointed by the 6.62% failure
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@Intercourse said:
6.62% aggregate failure rate according to their ~125K tests. That is a pretty high failure rate.
On the contrary. I think that's pretty good if you factor in the amount of dimwits trying to run this test from their office, behind a highly-restrictive corporate firewall cordoning off their traffic.
You're going to have to face the sad fact that any technology relying on opening arbitrary ports is never going to work reliably in an environment that has a stern chokehold on all goings-on.
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For some reason, I seriously doubt that random dimwits are seeking out a WebSockets test page on their own impetus.
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Everyone seems to be forgetting the #1 problem with code transpilers: Debugging.
All the in-browser debugging tools assume JS. So invariably, you will be writing in one language and trying to debug in another. Which is incredibly developer-hostile, especially when the language is new and has bugs.
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These idiots want Ruby, which doesn't have any decent debuggers anyway.
But fair point.
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When has Google ever attempted to make things easier and less complicated for everyone else? They hire rocket scientists and expect everyone else to keep up!
Oh they changed this quote already to:
We think that Google often attempts to make tools for everyone to use, but some how lacks the ability to simplify user experience. The ultimate goal, once again, is to make developing easier and more straightforward for everyone.
Commence backpedal.
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Anyway, this could have gained some traction 10-15 years ago but not now. JS is here to stay and there's nothing we can do about it.
Clearly the solution is to build a time machine and kill the guy who made JavaScript before he makes it.
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(Hey lookie there, Twitter OneBox works if and only if the tweet contains no links or images. Amazing.)
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That hashtag also has the World's Record-Winning Dumbest Math Trick:
Turns out, 6 divided in half is... 3?!
Caution: if you were surprised or entertained by the results of this math trick, you should see a doctor immediately because it is extremely likely you are actually dead.
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Doesn't work if you are on the trailing end of a 1/5 of Jack. I think we need a psychology experiment for that. I volunteer, if only so I can get government funding for my alcoholism.
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@Intercourse said:
Doesn't work if you are on the trailing end of a 1/5 of Jack. I think we need a psychology experiment for that. I volunteer, if only so I can get government funding for my alcoholism.
Interesting, did the math trick worked for you?
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Which is kinda the point. Someone will find things to complaine about in any language and find WTF bits and pieces
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So sick of all these Silicon Valley douchebags trying to get funding for their stupid, utterly pointless projects.
They're all funding each other, sometimes with trust fund money. We can only hope that eventually the successive failures mean they all run out of money and it finally ends.
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@Intercourse said:
I was under the impression that web sockets over port 80 has had issues, but that running them on 443 did not have any issues?
Unless you’re performing a man-in-the-middle attack, you can’t really distinguish WebSockets traffic from regular HTTPS traffic, so it should work.
The corporate proxy here blocks HTTP WebSockets, and also seems to block proxying of non-HTTPS protocols, but HTTPS WebSockets work.
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All the in-browser debugging tools assume JS.
Which is still more easily fixed by extending the debugging tools to be able to present the original source/variables/types etc. using some kind of annotations the compiler would place in the generated JavaScript than push completely new runtime to browsers. Not the least because such debugger would start to be useful when it works in one browser while few¹ will use new runtime until it is supported everywhere².
¹ There are fools who use vbscript and silverlight and activex controls and similar microsoft-only abominations, so somebody probably would.
² And as far as I am concerned, "everywhere" includes obscure browsers like elinks.