WTF happened to Windows 95?
-
-
Visual XBox
-
Isn't there a risk that, having announced this version, sales of Windows 8 will dry up even more while people wait for the "better" OS?
I postponed upgrading my main PC from Windows 7 in the hope that Microsoft would backtrack on some of the decisions that I didn't like in Windows 8. It looks like that was the right decision.
-
Look at the date.
Having a little Aprils fools day prank = good.Having a prank and PREDICTING THE FUTURE = priceless.
From the comments:
I realised it was a fake at the Cheryl Tunt part :D
YHBT. YHL. HAND.
-
Basically, they wanted to include the "1" part to not only signify the unity (same core across all platforms), but also to tie in with other current products (OneNote, OneDrive, Xbox One), and because Windows 1 has already been a thing (the first version of Windows).
So they learned from the Xbox naming nonsense?
"Hey, let's play Xbox!"
"Which one?"
"Um, Xbox 1."
"But that's brand-new, I don't have one yet!"
"No, not Xbox One, the first Xbox."
-
So how long until Microsoft adopts Google/Mozilla's versioning scheme? We'd be at Windows 98 again within a couple years!
-
Google hasn't entered version number overdrive with all of their OSes, though.
While ChromeOS is at Version 37, Android is just at Version 4.4.
-
If by "latest and greatest" you mean "stuff hacked together by some FOSStards and hipsters in their basement who didn't give a shit about making it runnable on a system about 90% of people use, because IT'S THE YEAR OF DESKTOP LINUX or whatever".
Well, I guess if we hold to your @blakeyrat worldview of "desktop app or nothing", then you would be correct. But do you want to know something that 100% of the computing population interacts with? Apache web servers, running on *nix, typically powered by a major interpreted language. The internet is run on Linux, not Windows.
I don't frequent dev conferences, but I'm pretty certain you're just pulling this out of your ass. Sure, cool kids use *nix and bash Windows on every occasion, but as far as actual development goes, .NET is holding out just fine. And the only reason people would shift to *nix is because they have to, since their language's developers are basement dwellers who can't be arsed to make their shit run on Windows without hacking it up.
Or perhaps there is little motivation to "make their shit run on Windows" because why would you? It is going to be running on *nix. If you were going to be developing a .Net application, you would not develop it under a Mono stack. You would develop it in VS and run it on a Windows localhost.
Most of the interpreted languages can run just fine on Windows. They have made it work. And for simpler projects, you could develop them on Windows. But as soon as you start bringing in dependencies and outside libraries, good fucking luck. Python and Rails developers use Macs or *nix machines.
One of the reasons Stack Overflow is so unusual is that it's the only publicly popular software built on the NET platform.
Exactly. I am not sure if it was built that way because Atwood was so comfortable with it, or perhaps he had the endgame of selling out to Spolsky in mind? Either way, I personally cannot think of any other major sites that use .Net. Plentyoffish.com maybe? They are definitely in the minority.
Microsoft's problem if they want me to recommend MS platform for the next project instead of *nix.
Yeah, fuck that. MS licensing is nigh impossible to understand without a lawyer to interpret for you, and very few startups are likely to spend their first round of funding on software licensing.
-
Android is just at Version 4.4.
But Android has snacky nicknames!
I want Windows Macaroni and Windows Lasagna!
-
Windows Salmiakki!
-
That was Windows ME or Windows Vista.
-
-
Same joke, at the same time. Great minds and all that.
-
I never understood the Windows Vista hate, it always seemed people only hated it because it was the popular thing to do. All the Vista-haters love Windows 7 and they're like 95% the same thing on the inside.
I don't think I've ever encountered Windows ME before. It was DOS-based, right? Just an updated Windows 98?
-
-
All the Vista-haters love Windows 7 and they're like 95% the same thing on the inside.
Have you used Vista? It runs like shit. Same machine with Vista or 7 and 7 is going to be a more pleasant experience.
-
I had Vista a few weeks after it was released. It worked fine and was a good upgrade from Windows XP. The only reason I later upgraded to Windows 7 was I had a student discount so it was cheap.
-
ME introduced System Restore. On a FAT32 system. Failing to disable it would make your computer the crashiest piece of crap ever.
-
@Intercourse said:
Windows 10 was apparently announced today, did they forget how to count?
I'm guessing that the primary issue is that Windows 7 ate 9, and thus we have to go to 10.
-
It worked fine and was a good upgrade from Windows XP.
You're high. Or maybe you were then, it being college and all.
-
I'm guessing that the primary issue is that Windows 7 ate 9, and thus we have to go to 10.
Ba-dum-bum
-
<snip image>
Might I suggest renaming the next windows to "Windows 1/0"? It's got all the hipsterness and tie-ins to other products because of the one, and it's literally off-the-chart if plotted in @cartman82's graph.
-
Maybe they just added a keyboard combo? In which case.... err, how is that not a one-day project for an intern?
Who said it wasn't? The point is that it hasn't been done so far, because MS didn't care. The reason it was shown at the presentation was to show that they now do care. That's a good thing.
If you want to use Powershell, using it is as simple as starting damn Powershell.
I am sympathetic to one argument, which is that if you want to distribute a script or something like that to unknown users, making them install Powershell first is probably a substantial barrier to adoption.(I'll be back later to reply to more posts.)
-
@Intercourse said:
You're high. Or maybe you were then, it being college and all.
I also didn't have a potato for a computer. IIRC it was a dual-core 64-bit P4 with 1 GB RAM, not the Celerons with 256 MB the OEMs were passing off as "Vista-Ready".
-
I am sympathetic to one argument, which is that if you want to distribute a script or something like that to unknown users, making them install Powershell first is probably a substantial barrier to adoption.
Win 8 already provides PS, from what I remember.
You need to walk them through the whole "setting execution policy" thing, though. That's a major fuckup on MS part.
-
You need to walk them through the whole "setting execution policy" thing, though. That's a major fuckup on MS part.
+1 QFT.
-
How about the Ubuntu naming scheme? Natty Narwhal, Oneiric Ocelot, Wanking Walrus...
-
Pederast Panda
-
Munging Markhor?
Filed under: [x-post](#tag), [Thanks UD for ruining that word.](#tag)
-
@Intercourse said:
But do you want to know something that 100% of the computing population interacts with? Apache web servers, running on *nix, typically powered by a major interpreted language. The internet is run on Linux, not Windows.
Not because they're good. Because they're cheap.
Or at least people perceive them as cheap because the licensing costs are zero.
@Intercourse said:
If you were going to be developing a .Net application, you would not develop it under a Mono stack.
Thousands of indie games are developed this way in MonoGame.
@Intercourse said:
But as soon as you start bringing in dependencies and outside libraries, good fucking luck.
Right; because despite all the crowing about being cross-platform on their websites, these projects do zero testing to ensure they actually are compatible with the world's most popular OS in any meaningful way. That's called "open source developers are shitty and write shitty software".
@Intercourse said:
Either way, I personally cannot think of any other major sites that use .Net. Plentyoffish.com maybe?
I won't argue that .net sites are in the majority, but I will question the relevance of even measuring this. The majority of food served is McDonalds burgers and nasty Subway sandwiches, that doesn't make them good.
@Intercourse said:
MS licensing is nigh impossible to understand without a lawyer to interpret for you,
Their server OS licensing is simple, especially for web servers.
People have been calling on them to simplify SQL Server licensing for ages. It's a dinosaur that was last relevant in 2003, and their licensing scheme completely breaks in cloud environments.
@Intercourse said:
and very few startups are likely to spend their first round of funding on software licensing.
But are they being penny-wise and pound-foolish?
-
So, you're saying we should call it Windows One X? That makes sense... or not!
-
developers are shitty and write shitty software
Hint: the MSVCRT has fumbled Unicode console support on the floor for how long now?
-
Intercourse:
Either way, I personally cannot think of any other major sites that use .Net. Plentyoffish.com maybe?I won't argue that .net sites are in the majority, but I will question the relevance of even measuring this. The majority of food served is McDonalds burgers and nasty Subway sandwiches, that doesn't make them good.
I would question even the possibility of measuring this. The applications I support at work are written in .NET but aren't available to the general public. At my last job, the .NET web applications weren't even available outside the corporate firewall. There's no way of counting those.
-
MacOS is eating their lunch in attracting developers by having a *nix environment beneath a nice GUI.
Nobody gives a shit about the type of developers who want a *nix environment.
Apple's pulling in developers because you're basically forced to use Apple to develop for iPad/iPhone/iWhatever. Oh yeah, there were 3 neckbeards from the BSD project or whatever, that makes up maybe 0.00005% of the total.
I still haven't heard much about the phone home and MS account integration crap. Seems they are trying to sneak that bitter pill beneath the flashy start menu presentation. Should expect predictable backlash to start in a few days, once their dev previews go out.
That's already in 8 and I don't hear people bitching about it. And, hell, it's been in OS X since like 10.2.
Well, to be honest it was pretty pathetic that it didn't have a workable paste for quite some time. Where that time is most reasonably measured in decades.
Its been deprecated since Windows Scripting Host took over its duties in, like, Windows 98. It's surprising Microsoft still even ships it.
I know I was really disappointed when Powershell still used the same awful console window,
Now you've hitting on the real reason.
I don't get that part. You can definitely paste into the console by right-clicking. Maybe they just added a keyboard combo? In which case.... err, how is that not a one-day project for an intern?
Because pretty much every console app traps the Control key? Have you even used CMD?
Either way, Windows standard shell needs to go.
Again, it's been deprecated for decades. It has gone.
You want to play around with the latest & greatest tech, it's assumed you have access to a *nix environment. All tutorials, tooling etc. is made with that assumption.
Haha wut?
If I want to play with the latest Photoshop smart-fill feature, Adobe assumes I have access to *nix? If I want to look at the latest video game shader technique, Bethesda assumes I have access to *nix?
I have no idea what you're even trying to say, it's so laughably inaccurate on the face of it.
As a consequence, there's a massive exodus of developers to *nix systems. 5 years ago, majority of devs ran Windows.
Evidence?
Go to a dev conference today, and it's all Macs with an occasional linux. Windows is increasingly becoming a ghetto in terms of developer mindshare.
That's because you need a Mac to write iPhone apps. And iPhone apps have been profitable.
That's a huge problem for Microsoft, who are relying on top developers being champions of their platform.
Assuming it's even true, which I doubt, developers from a modern IDE like Visual Studio going back to using a 2003 IDE like XCode, or, even worse, going to a CLI-only environment with 25-year-old tools like VIM and Emacs is a huge problem for our entire industry. Which is shitty. And a lot of the shittiness is due to developers rejecting modern tools.
I'm sure that Apple engineer was really loving the lack of red underlines in his IDE when he committed
goto fail;It's a minute to twelve for MS to move forward and catch up.
Catch up with what? Shitty CLIs from the 1970s? That would be "catching down".
Whatever, blakey. Like it or not, it's the reality.
No, I have the cool rat icon.
Hell, even MS avoids using NET for their products.
Evidence?
Isn't there a risk that, having announced this version, sales of Windows 8 will dry up even more while people wait for the "better" OS?
Probably not a significant amount.
I postponed upgrading my main PC from Windows 7 in the hope that Microsoft would backtrack on some of the decisions that I didn't like in Windows 8. It looks like that was the right decision.
Have you tried 8.1? They've already fixed the worst bits, and 8.1 is brilliant.
-
Hint: the MSVCRT has fumbled Unicode console support on the floor for how long now?
I have no idea what you're talking about.
In C++, it's the developer's responsibility to handle unicode. That's one of the reasons C++ is a shitty awful language.
-
Right; because despite all the crowing about being cross-platform on their websites, these projects do zero testing to ensure they actually are compatible with the world's most popular OS in any meaningful way. That's called "open source developers are shitty and write shitty software".
You don't know what you are talking about in this respect, so quiet down while the grownups are speaking.
Python, Ruby, PHP, MySQL, PostgreSQL, etc. all run perfectly fine on Windows. If you are entirely working with them, you can develop to your heart's content on Windows. If you want to call Linux specific libraries or dependencies, you cannot expect them to work on Windows. YMMV of course, it depends on the software. But if you want to develop for *nix, you should develop on *nix so that you do not have wrinkles to iron out when you deploy to production.
Not because they're good. Because they're cheap.
Or at least people perceive them as cheap because the licensing costs are zero.
But they are good, and also cheap. I have had Linux machines be up for literally years without a reboot. Basically they were powered up in the datacenter and only powered down when they were deprecated. If you install all Windows updates on schedule, you will likely be rebooting once a week. You will also have other unscheduled reboots along the way. Server 2012R2 also has a nasty habit of shitting itself when it gets an unscheduled hard reboot. If I need reliability and uptime, I will stick with *nix.
Thousands of indie games are developed this way in MonoGame.
We are talking about real software here. Not playthings.
I won't argue that .net sites are in the majority, but I will question the relevance of even measuring this. The majority of food served is McDonalds burgers and nasty Subway sandwiches, that doesn't make them good.
You make up stupid metaphors. *nix powers the web because it is inexpensive to work with and extremely reliable while also making great use of resources. Do you not think that Google, Facebook, Twitter and all of the other major tech companies have done research to see if they could save money or increase reliability by moving to an MS stack? They have and came to the same conclusion that many others have, for the web you cannot beat the *nix stack for reliability and low-cost. If you want to develop and sell a desktop product, then by all means you should be targeting Windows installs. Cast the broader net, go for the larger install base.
Their server OS licensing is simple, especially for web servers.
People have been calling on them to simplify SQL Server licensing for ages. It's a dinosaur that was last relevant in 2003, and their licensing scheme completely breaks in cloud environments.
ONLY for web servers. Other than that, it is difficult to know if you are within the confines of the EULA in many circumstances. VDI is an excellent example. It is extremely difficult to comply with MS licensing in that regard and if you want to sell VDI as IaaS, it is almost impossible. According to MS EULA, you would need to sell VDI instances of server products, which increases your cost per user to the point that it is not feasible.
SQL Server licensing is an absolute joke and abhorrently high-priced for nearly anyone.
But are they being penny-wise and pound-foolish?
No. Just...no. Are you honestly saying that you think .Net on an MS technology stack would be more economical in the long-run? You're higher than a giraffe's ass.
-
Oh! So @blakeyrat is a MS fanboy and salesman. I've never would have guessed that. I just thought he liked to rant about everything and everyone, but a MS fanboy? Now everything makes sense.
-
Have you tried 8.1? They've already fixed the worst bits, and 8.1 is brilliant.
Yes, I have it installed on my (occasional use) laptop. It is an improvement over 8, but I was waiting for features such as the ability to run the Metro* type apps in a window, so that I could place them how I liked rather than in the incredibly limited ways that the existing interface offers.
I was also waiting for Microsoft to integrate the whole OS better so that there wasn't such a jarring switch between the two types of application. I got frustrated by the fact that regular desktop applications would respond to certain actions, while the Metro type ones would expect completely different actions.
* I don't know what they're calling Metro now. I've stopped trying to keep up.
-
Because pretty much every console app traps the Control key?
Well, that's true on *nix as well, and doesn't stop GNOME Terminal from having keyboard shortcuts for copy-pasta (Ctrl-Shift-C and Ctrl-Shift-V).
But the real problem with the Windows console is its horribly broken selection model. Instead of being able to select by lines the way basically every other thing that implements the same general functionality as xterm does, the Windows console insists that you want to select rectangles, which you don't want 90+% of the time!
Fix that, and I'd be happy.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
In C++, it's the developer's responsibility to handle unicode. That's one of the reasons C++ is a shitty awful language.
Go and try to use the CRT functions to read Unicode in from the console, then read this.
-
Have you tried 8.1? They've already fixed the worst bits, and 8.1 is brilliant.
Also, I'm quite the fan of the live tile interface; I'll be upgrading to my third Windows phone in a row this weekend. I just think Windows 8 didn't fit together properly and was awkward to use.
-
@Intercourse said:
But if you want to develop for nix, you should develop *on *nix so that you do not have wrinkles to iron out when you deploy to production.
Well I won't argue with that.
But it doesn't change the fact that a project advertised as cross-platform should actually be cross-platform. Otherwise, that project is run by terrible developers who suck at their jobs.
@Intercourse said:
I have had Linux machines be up for literally years without a reboot.
Either 1: you're lying,
2: that machine was riddled with security holes (may not matter if well-firewalled)
3: you "patched" the holes without rebooting, in which case for all practical purposes it did reboot. ("I patched my Linux box without rebooting it! All I had to do is stop literally all its services and restart them! Then log-out all users and have them log back in! That is SO DIFFERENT FROM A REBOOT GUYZ!")@Intercourse said:
If you install all Windows updates on schedule, you will likely be rebooting once a week.
How are you in the IT field and ignorant of Patch Tuesday?
Why am I even debating with people who don't know SHIT about IT at all?
@Intercourse said:
We are talking about real software here. Not playthings.
Then you should be using OS/360. Software there is much more "real".
Wait, what the fuck does "real" mean in this context anyway? Did I... did I hallucinate my Steam library!?
@Intercourse said:
You make up stupid metaphors. *nix powers the web because it is inexpensive to work with and extremely reliable while also making great use of resources.
It's inexpensive to obtain. I don't believe its inexpensive to work with, just because you waste so much time fixing things that are non-issues in other environments.
It may be reliable, but the payroll costs of making it reliable are much higher than in a Windows environment, so I'd still say it falls under pennywise and pound foolish.
@Intercourse said:
ONLY for web servers.
Right; but since nobody uses Linux for anything other than web servers, that's the valid comparison here.
@Intercourse said:
SQL Server licensing is an absolute joke and abhorrently high-priced for nearly anyone.
I agree.
Most fans of Microsoft products also agree.
That said, the time you save the first time MySQL shits itself and requires a table rebuild for literally no reason, you've made-back whatever you spend on MS SQL plus change. Linux developers seem to think labor is free for some reason.
@Intercourse said:
No. Just...no. Are you honestly saying that you think .Net on an MS technology stack would be more economical in the long-run? You're higher than a giraffe's ass.
No; I'm saying development times would be shorter. Whether that makes the site "more economical in the long-run" depends on the site.
-
But the real problem with the Windows console is its horribly broken selection model. Instead of being able to select by lines the way basically every other thing that implements the same general functionality as xterm does, the Windows console insists that you want to select rectangles, which you don't want 90+% of the time!
A lot of apps in there query the mouse too. I wager that's part of the reason for that decision made waaay back decades ago.
Go and try to use the CRT functions to read Unicode in from the console, then read this.
I don't give enough of a shit. And in any case, you're talking about stuff that's been deprecated longer than most forms of Unicode have even existed.
-
Nobody gives a shit about the type of developers who want a *nix environment.
Apple's pulling in developers because you're basically forced to use Apple to develop for iPad/iPhone/iWhatever. Oh yeah, there were 3 neckbeards from the BSD project or whatever, that makes up maybe 0.00005% of the total.
Sorry, you're completely wrong.
My source is mostly conference and tutorial videos. The exodus was noticeable before, but lately I've been on a bit of a binge and it came into stark contrast. If you want to learn any of the latest web-based technologies, you'll be hard pressed to find anything but macs (maybe 70%) and linux variants (the remainder). Hell, in one series, the author switches from windows to mac halfway through.
It matches my personal experience as well. I'm most comfortable in Windows desktop environment, but doing the webby node.js/SPA/python/ruby/whatever stuff is just such a pain. I hate using windows cmd and wrestling with the clash of Microsoft and open source conventions. It's just so much easier on Mac and Linux. Even though the desktop environment is crappier, sh makes up for it.
That's already in 8 and I don't hear people bitching about it. And, hell, it's been in OS X since like 10.2.
If you have hemorrhoids for several years, you eventually stop bitching about that too. Doesn't mean you have to like it.
Also, it's expected they'll push it even further. For example, I fully expect updates to only work once you're logged in.
Haha wut?
If I want to play with the latest Photoshop smart-fill feature, Adobe assumes I have access to *nix? If I want to look at the latest video game shader technique, Bethesda assumes I have access to *nix?
I have no idea what you're even trying to say, it's so laughably inaccurate on the face of it.
Hmm... is this what they call "willfully ignorant"? One of your poorer qualities.
Evidence?
Up.
That's because you need a Mac to write iPhone apps. And iPhone apps have been profitable.
I'm not even talking about iOS development. Up.
Assuming it's even true, which I doubt, developers from a modern IDE like Visual Studio going back to using a 2003 IDE like XCode, or, even worse, going to a CLI-only environment with 25-year-old tools like VIM and Emacs is a huge problem for our entire industry. Which is shitty. And a lot of the shittiness is due to developers rejecting modern tools.
I'm sure that Apple engineer was really loving the lack of red underlines in his IDE when he committed goto fail;
Yes Visual Studio is a big plus for certain things, but it never felt right for the stuff outside of .NET technologies.
Catch up with what? Shitty CLIs from the 1970s? That would be "catching down".
So how sad it is that Microsoft's own shell is still worse 40 years later.
Evidence?
Can't find. Heard it or read it somewhere. There was some kind of internal spat, which led to Windows 7 not shipping with NET framework and Office doing things native until 2013.
-
I'm most comfortable in Windows desktop environment, but doing the webby node.js/SPA/python/ruby/whatever stuff is just such a pain.
@Intercourse said:
Python, Ruby, PHP, MySQL, PostgreSQL, etc. all run perfectly fine on Windows. If you are entirely working with them, you can develop to your heart's content on Windows.
So, can you people decide what exactly you're ranting about?
And I'm with @cartman82 on this - yes, it's a pain, but not because Windows is "inferior". It's a pain because instead of doing a proper Windows port, the developers expect everyone to turn their Windows box into a retarded *nix machine via MinGW, Cygwin, or whatever's trendy now.
It wouldn't be a pain if the devs gave a shit.
-
And I'm with @cartman82 on this - yes, it's a pain, but not because Windows is "inferior". It's a pain because instead of doing a proper Windows port, the developers expect everyone to turn their Windows box into a retarded *nix machine via MinGW, Cygwin, or whatever's trendy now.
It wouldn't be a pain if the devs gave a shit.
The problem is, if the server where the thing I'm making will work is *nix, it would be ill advised to develop it on anything but *nix. Unless you want constant headache with deployment etc.
Add that to the pain of the mismatched tooling + libraries treating Windows as the second-class citizen + the pain of all the documentation and knowledge base presuming *nix...
Too much pain, not enough gain. Just use *nix and try to make it look like Windows as much as possible. That's my conclusion, at least.
-
Oh! So @blakeyrat is an MS apologist and salesman. I've never would have guessed that. I just thought he liked to rant about everything and everyone, but an MS apologist? Now everything makes sense.
FTFY
-
Well I won't argue with that.
But it doesn't change the fact that a project advertised as cross-platform should actually be cross-platform. Otherwise, that project is run by terrible developers who suck at their jobs.
Sweet jumping Jesus, do you even fucking read? All the major languages and frameworks are completely cross platform. That does not mean they cannot call dependencies that are not cross-platform. Do I have to get out the crayons and construction paper and draw you a little diagram?
Either 1: you're lying,
Nope.
2: that machine was riddled with security holes (may not matter if well-firewalled)
Negative.
3: you "patched" the holes without rebooting, in which case for all practical purposes it did reboot. ("I patched my Linux box without rebooting it! All I had to do is stop literally all its services and restart them! Then log-out all users and have them log back in! That is SO DIFFERENT FROM A REBOOT GUYZ!")
You're fucking retarded. Like seriously, you need a fucking helmet before you hurt yourself. So what if services had to be restarted? There is still effectively no downtime. I can type "sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart" and Apache will restart before anyone perceives any downtime. I have never timed it, but the restart of the service occurs before a browser will time out. How about this then, you pedantic asshole, "I have had machines, with Linux installed on them, that did not see a POST screen for years"? Does that satisfy you?
How are you in the IT field and ignorant of Patch Tuesday?
Why am I even debating with people who don't know SHIT about IT at all?
I am not, which is why I said you will likely be rebooting once a week. Do you read? Or are you legally blind and just let some screen reader try to parse Dicksores for you? "likely be rebooting once a week", I vaguely recall a Tuesday or two where a reboot was not required. But you will likely be rebooting once a week.
It's inexpensive to obtain. I don't believe its inexpensive to work with, just because you waste so much time fixing things that are non-issues in other environments.
You say this from your limitless experience working with OSS? From your many years spending countless hours debugging problems with Apache and MySQL that made you become so disenfranchised that you threw up your hands and took a job at a MS shop and thought to yourself: "Holy fuckballs, THIS is how it should be done!! I am in nirvana!!"? No. You say this from the outside looking in. The shit you worry about, has been taken care of or has well-known work arounds that require next to no effort to execute. It is just a different environment. I work in both environments all the time. They both have their shortcomings and strengths. I use the right tool for the job. You have one tool and use it for everything. If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems like nails. You only own a hammer, which works out great when you have nails, but sometimes you are pounding screws in instead of reaching for a fucking screwdriver. Also, you claim that a hammer is the only thing anyone would ever need and make fun of those with screwdrivers and wrenches, etc.
It may be reliable, but the payroll costs of making it reliable are much higher than in a Windows environment, so I'd still say it falls under pennywise and pound foolish.
You, once again, are fucking retarded. I don't...I don't even know where to begin. There is nothing unreliable about a *nix environment. Quite to the contrary. If you write shitty code and run it on a reliable OS, then your service will be unreliable. But that goes for MS also.
That said, the time you save the first time MySQL shits itself and requires a table rebuild for literally no reason, you've made-back whatever you spend on MS SQL plus change.
We have literally never encountered this scenario. Not once. I know in your mind, there are hordes of people at Facebook's datacenter working 24 hours a day just dumping and rebuilding tables, but it is not that frequent. Not even close. And even if there were, at their level, it would probably still be cheaper. I will take upfront cost considerations way before some manufactured catastrophe that you have dreamed up. It is just not that big of a deal. Also, outside of a single server deployment, it is pretty easy to ensure that it never hurts your uptime and is pretty easy to recover from.
Fuck all, why do I even respond to tripe like this from a bellend like you?
No; I'm saying development times would be shorter. Whether that makes the site "more economical in the long-run" depends on the site.
No. Just no. It is not the best choice for all scenarios, but I find it hard to believe that anything could have a shorter development time that Ruby on Rails. If you want to get up and running, and you want to iterate to keep up with customer demand, nothing will get you up and running faster. The framework has also become a hell of a lot better in the past couple of years. It is far from perfect, but if your only metric is development time, there is no way in fuck that .Net is faster.
-
And I'm with @cartman82 on this - yes, it's a pain, but not because Windows is "inferior". It's a pain because instead of doing a proper Windows port, the developers expect everyone to turn their Windows box into a retarded *nix machine via MinGW, Cygwin, or whatever's trendy now.
It might be that they don't care about Windows (I know I don't). You want to port it to Windows, then do it, that's one of the reasons my projects are open source.
-
Sorry, you're completely wrong.
I don't think I am.
My source is mostly conference and tutorial videos.
Those follow the money. The money's in iOS. Macs are required for iOS development.
If you want to learn any of the latest web-based technologies, you'll be hard pressed to find anything but macs (maybe 70%) and linux variants (the remainder).
Right; so in one small segment of the market, there's your Macs. Whee.
I'm most comfortable in Windows desktop environment, but doing the webby node.js/SPA/python/ruby/whatever stuff is just such a pain.
It's a pain because the people developing those languages never bothered to write any decent development tools for those languages. It has nothing to do with Windows.
I hate using windows cmd
It's been deprecated for decades. I repeat for what feels like the 47th time. You're not supposed to be using it for anything except backwards-compatibility with Batch scripts from 1988.
wrestling with the clash of Microsoft and open source conventions.
If the open source project was "ported" to Windows, but doesn't use Windows conventions, then its developers are shitty and awful and etc.
Look, open source software is poor quality. So far that's pretty much the only meaningful thing I've gotten out of your screed. And I already knew that.
Hmm... is this what they call "willfully ignorant"? One of your poorer qualities.
Nope, I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what advances in tech "assume you have access to *nix". None I'm interested in do. Most of them assume you have access to Windows, if anything.
I'm not even talking about iOS development.
That doesn't matter. That's still WHY they own Macs.
So how sad it is that Microsoft's own shell is still worse 40 years later.
It's been deprecated for like 2/3rds of that.
-
@Intercourse said:
No. Just no. It is not the best choice for all scenarios, but I find it hard to believe that anything could have a shorter development time that Ruby on Rails. If you want to get up and running, and you want to iterate to keep up with customer demand, nothing will get you up and running faster. The framework has also become a hell of a lot better in the past couple of years. It is far from perfect, but if your only metric is development time, there is no way in fuck that .Net is faster.
Yeah, that's about right.
Rails is faster to develop due to dynamic language and generators, .NET is faster in production.
