WTF Bites
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The library itself gives an error code (often mapped to an exception in language-specific wrappers) when given a syntax error. The shell prints an error message. When doing interactive exploration of the DB — definitely the primary use-case for the shell — this is what you want, and spoiling of the transaction is not. 's problem was in part the expectation that it would be any other way.
Yea, why would I expect the sqlite shell to work like postgres shell or mysql shell? And package-lock to lock packages?
The actual mistake is doing a migration without testing it first. Making a test DB (with trivial amounts of data) is so easy there really is no reason to not test.
I did test the migration, not just on a test db, but on a production dump. The problem is that there are hundreds of instances of this DB, some of them tweaked by hand by admins, so that a full "test" would be essentially a failed deployment. Which is exactly what happened.
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The Division 2 currently cannot be updated because a recent update broke the system used to update the game, so the developers trying to update it have to first update the updater to accept new updates. So that they can update it.
It's updates all the way down
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Who watches the watchers?
Who polices the police?
Who updates the updaters?
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@sebastian-galczynski said in WTF Bites:
Yea, why would I expect the sqlite shell to work like postgres shell or mysql shell?
Different developers on different projects with slightly different user models chose different defaults for the same situation. You can change psql settings to behave more like the sqlite3 default here, and change sqlite3 settings to behave more like psql. SQLite's developers modelled the user as someone actually sitting at the console entering commands in real time as part of a REPL ("Oops, I made a typo." Re-enters line correctly. "I botched that UPDATE". ROLLBACK) and piping stuff was bolted on (usually for scripted stuff you'd be working on the database file though a script) because in Unix-land standard input is just another pipe.
Also no doubt partly to do with the different operating circumstances (psql just needs to communicate with a running postgres server instance, while sqlite3 is having to do all the actual work itself).
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… and the documentation says that the default is ‘or abort’ and that that's what ANSI SQL specifies. But what the other SQL implementations actually do is that they spoil the transaction, so that when the commit comes around, it fails. SQLite apparently does not have such flag, making aborting the whole tool or function the only way.
Big warning: this is absolutely not that universal. Actually, if I remember it correctly "automatic rollback on error" is rather postgresql specific! It is perfectly common that SQL command error via API just returns an error without any change to the transaction, leaving application free choice to rollback or commit. It's actually quite handy sometimes.
Of course, the real issue here is the CLI client, where the only sane default behavior is "abort on error, rollback on abort".
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@Kamil-Podlesak I'm pretty sure the mssqlserver's sqlcmd can abort scripts on error … but, yeah, there definitely needs to be some option that that's what you want and I think some commands in the script (that get automatically generated from the visual studio sql project, but still have to be there) to make it behave that way.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
Of course, the real issue here is the CLI client, where the only sane default behavior is "abort on error, rollback on abort".
If you really think so, https://sqlite.org/forum/forum is where you go to try to get that to happen.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
Of course, the real issue here is the CLI client, where the only sane default behavior is "abort on error, rollback on abort".
It is not the only sane behavior. It depends on the use-case. If you are running it interactively, it almost certainly should not be doing that.
If
-bail -batch
does not get you that behavior, report it, and it might even get fixed, because that's what the option promises. But I just checked mssqlserver's sqlcmd help and you'd have to use-b
there to get that behavior as well.
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF Bites:
The Division 2 currently cannot be updated because a recent update broke the system used to update the game, so the developers trying to update it have to first update the updater to accept new updates. So that they can update it.
It's updates all the way down
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
Of course, the real issue here is the CLI client, where the only sane default behavior is "abort on error, rollback on abort".
It is not the only sane behavior. It depends on the use-case. If you are running it interactively, it almost certainly should not be doing that.
If
-bail -batch
does not get you that behavior, report it, and it might even get fixed, because that's what the option promises. But I just checked mssqlserver's sqlcmd help and you'd have to use-b
there to get that behavior as well.Let me elaborate: non-interactive, non-auto-commit use should be automatically considered "batch" and behave this way. It's fine that interactive mode use different default, but is that many such tools just assume interactive mode even when the commands are read from a file. Some exceptionally shitty ones even fill the output with command prompt spam (bonus points for using \n\r on unix).
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@Kamil-Podlesak Don't persuade me. Talk to the official forum. That's observed by the only people who can really help (if they choose to).
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@Kamil-Podlesak Don't persuade me. Talk to the official forum. That's observed by the only people who can really help (if they choose to).
I don't actually use sqlite, my negative experiences are mostly with big- ones.
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@Kamil-Podlesak That's beside the point. That forum is where you (or anyone else) would go to have the conversation that might lead to this being changed. Here is definitely not, and none of the rest of us are bothered enough to take the torch forward on your behalf; rules, after all.
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@Kamil-Podlesak That's beside the point. That forum is where you (or anyone else) would go to have the conversation that might lead to this being changed. Here is definitely not, and none of the rest of us are bothered enough to take the torch forward on your behalf; rules, after all.
that sqlite torch belongs to @Bulb
For my (Oracle et al) torch, this is absolutely the correct forum.
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF Bites:
Who watches the watchers?
Who polices the police?
Who updates the updaters?
I DO.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
New benefit at work this year: Prudential Insurance that pays out for various accidents, emergency room visits, etc. So I signed up and the other day got mail from them saying that I should set up an account in their portal where I can make claims, etc. Cool...I don't have a claim to make right now but I'd like to be prepared just in case. Follow the links and end up here:
Ah, "Register Now." That looks like what I need. So I click it. A javascript "link," natch. It goes here:
https://mybenefits/nonssocontroller/newUserReg.htm
Good jerb, guys. I went to their "Accessibility Help" page and told them about how I can't access the registration page.
The register button works now. However...
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@boomzilla I guess they mean the year 2123, or the first of Twentythirduary.
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Apparently this guy has a different definition of "brief".
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@Gribnit I pronounce you insane.
This is the one post that makes you declare him insane, and not one of his ~24k strange post before it?
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@TimeBandit You'll see I omitted the word "now".
This was done completely on purpose.
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF Bites:
Apparently this guy has a different definition of "brief".
Ah, the homeless-bum-in-a-suit guy. A special kind of dumb - the one that talks a lot.
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@MrL two of them.
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In the morning I rebooted my work computer. Doing that triggered, probably overdue, check for updates (of Dell firmware), so 10 minutes later it asked me to reboot it again.
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Today in "Count the s":
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Today in "Count the s":
Where do you put the tapes? And how does it manage to run an Edison cylinder at 15k RPM?
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I DO.
@Gribnit I pronounce you insane. You may now kiss my ass.
We'll bunnymoon on the Isles of Langerhans...
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@TimeBandit said in WTF Bites:
@Gribnit I pronounce you insane.
This is the one post that makes you declare him insane, and not one of his ~24k strange post before it?
Well, you can see why.
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I DO.
@Gribnit I pronounce you insane. You may now kiss my ass.
We'll bunnymoon on the Isles of Langerhans...
Ain't that sweet!
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@LaoC Make sure you both stay away from California while doing so - otherwise you might catch an insulinome.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
New benefit at work this year: Prudential Insurance that pays out for various accidents, emergency room visits, etc. So I signed up and the other day got mail from them saying that I should set up an account in their portal where I can make claims, etc. Cool...I don't have a claim to make right now but I'd like to be prepared just in case. Follow the links and end up here:
Ah, "Register Now." That looks like what I need. So I click it. A javascript "link," natch. It goes here:
https://mybenefits/nonssocontroller/newUserReg.htm
Good jerb, guys. I went to their "Accessibility Help" page and told them about how I can't access the registration page.
The register button works now. However...
And so we proceed...
No idea what the
ee-claim-intake
might be. And no, my user credentials for the Prudential site don't get me past that.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
New benefit at work this year: Prudential Insurance that pays out for various accidents, emergency room visits, etc. So I signed up and the other day got mail from them saying that I should set up an account in their portal where I can make claims, etc. Cool...I don't have a claim to make right now but I'd like to be prepared just in case. Follow the links and end up here:
Ah, "Register Now." That looks like what I need. So I click it. A javascript "link," natch. It goes here:
https://mybenefits/nonssocontroller/newUserReg.htm
Good jerb, guys. I went to their "Accessibility Help" page and told them about how I can't access the registration page.
The register button works now. However...
And so we proceed...
No idea what the
ee-claim-intake
might be. And no, my user credentials for the Prudential site don't get me past that.Dude, it's not intended to work. Learn. You're not supposed to be able to file a claim. This broken-ass pile is what your employer thinks is compliance. Guess what? They have more money than you.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
my user credentials for the Prudential site don't get me past that.
That would be imprudent.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF Bites:
@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
my user credentials for the Prudential site don't get me past that.
That would be imprudent.
I suspect that it's supposed to be some kind of server to server integration but the code monkeys fucked it all up and so instead of seeing my information there's a login page. I'm kind of looking forward to checking back to see what else is going on.
In another part of the app, they have downloadable pdfs of claim and beneficiary designation forms. One of them 404s right now.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
but the code monkeys fucked it all up and so instead of seeing my information there's a login page.
When I login to get my paycheck stub, I'm greeted with a 2nd login screen. F5 refreshes past that. Gotta love megacorps.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
One of them 404s right now.
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Lately Microsoft has been acting up with login screens, making me login and re-login multiple times in a row. I think the most convoluted version I've experienced lately was:
- enter email
- enter password
- get 2FA SMS and enter it
- enter email again
- enter password again
- click [Yes] to keep me signed in
- enter just the password one more time
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@hungrier That's 4FA security
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@TimeBandit Any hacker would get frustrated and leave
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Lately Microsoft has been acting up with login screens, making me login and re-login multiple times in a row. I think the most convoluted version I've experienced lately was:
- enter email
- enter password
- get 2FA SMS and enter it
- enter email again
- enter password again
- click [Yes] to keep me signed in
- enter just the password one more time
Same, except rinse and repeat if you happen to not navigate a page within two minutes, or visit a different sub-domain.
During one session I amassed some 16 OTP texts.
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF Bites:
Who watches the watchers?
Who polices the police?
Who updates the updaters?
Google announced the unveiling of a ChatGPT competitor last Wednesday but then made the bizarre decision to spoil that announcement with a blog post two days earlier. The reason, apparently, was that Microsoft had already sent out invites for the ChatGPT-powered 'New Bing' product launch for that Tuesday, preempting Google's announcement by a day, and Google wanted to preempt the preempters.
Hey!! That's my line!!
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I'm afraid attempts to convince the SQLite guy to do things the normal way may encounter some difficulties. This is, after all, the guy who doesn't use git, because "the mental model for Git is needlessly complex". Not getting how git works is a very reliable sign that discussions with that person will be uhmm... purely academic.
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@sebastian-galczynski Fossil is aimed at smaller teams in its default synchronization model, and it more strongly encourages merging. Apart from that, I really wouldn't worry about it; he won't be taking any code contributions from you anyway (because he requires a complex copyright release document; he's being legally very careful).
But you'd be just asking how to achieve a particular behaviour, which is a user question. DRH rarely needs to answer those himself; there are others who can provide at least as good help (if it doesn't require a code change to the SQLite shell).
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@sebastian-galczynski but it is needlessly complex, at least if you don’t need the features that are at the core of its complexity.
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but it is needlessly complex, at least if you don’t need the features that are at the core of its complexity.
[insert ChatGPT generated blakeyrant here]
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@boomzilla they’re taking our jorbs!
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
[insert ChatGPT generated blakeyrant here]
I'd be curious to see what an AI would generate if you used Blakeyrat's posts as a training set. And at the same time, I feel it's a Bad Idea™ that would go terribly wrong in ways we couldn't even imagine.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
[insert ChatGPT generated blakeyrant here]
I'd be curious to see what an AI would generate if you used Blakeyrat's posts as a training set. And at the same time, I feel it's a Bad Idea™ that would go terribly wrong in ways we couldn't even imagine.
There is a theory which states that if anyone should ever do that, Blakey will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
[insert ChatGPT generated blakeyrant here]
I'd be curious to see what an AI would generate if you used Blakeyrat's posts as a training set. And at the same time, I feel it's a Bad Idea™ that would go terribly wrong in ways we couldn't even imagine.
since I have a feeling this would annoy Blakey like there is no tomorrow: ship it!
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
I'd be curious to see what an AI would generate if you used Blakeyrat's posts as a training set.
Use these forums (yes, especially the garage; no, not the Lounge) as the training material.