WTF Bites
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foredit:
this post escaped the Jeffing but if it's Jeffed now it'll be out of order so it might as well stay
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Holy shit I flagged a post for jeffing and not five minutes later a mod arrived and started jeffing. TRWTF right here.
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@Gustav don't make up stories.
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I used incognito window to read the reply and it could've been the first time I upvoted @Gribnit, if only I could still see their post when logged in.
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I used incognito window to read the reply and it could've been the first time I upvoted @Gribnit, if only I could still see their post when logged in.
You upvoted a post while not logged in?
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Holy shit I flagged a post for jeffing and not five minutes later a mod arrived and started jeffing. TRWTF right here.
Thanks by the way, was going to do that myself but am on mobile.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
I used incognito window to read the reply and it could've been the first time I upvoted @Gribnit, if only I could still see their post when logged in.
You upvoted a post while not logged in?
Pssst, your autism act is slipping! Read again but more pendantic!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
Holy shit I flagged a post for jeffing and not five minutes later a mod arrived and started jeffing. TRWTF right here.
Thanks by the way, was going to do that myself but am on mobile.
You ruined a perfectly good ballistic derail, you did.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
Holy shit I flagged a post for jeffing and not five minutes later a mod arrived and started jeffing. TRWTF right here.
Thanks by the way, was going to do that myself but am on mobile.
You ruined a perfectly good ballistic derail, you did.
Next time I'll put more elbow grease. Can have those things seize up in the middle of a kneel!
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MacOS somehow managed to introduce one
Not really. There are two, depending on whether the application is self-contained or not. If it is something that can be self-contained, then installation is just conceptually dropping a file into the right location (i.e., somewhere where the OS will present applications to you from); since those applications are just specially-set-up directories and can contain all sorts of things, installation by copy works pretty well. (It has to come from a directory on the right format of disk image, but those are usually auto-mounted so that's easy for users to handle.) The only thing stopping other desktop operating systems from doing something similar is the league of sysadmins who throw up their hands in horror at the thought of "NoT UpDaTiNg tHe LiBrArIeS iF ThErE iS a PrObLeM!!".
The other sort has to add in files that are shared in some sense. Those need a more traditional installer. At least macOS provides the implementation of it, so the typical installer that goes that route just supplies a configuration script for the installer (that can include "run this code" steps so it's pretty flexible in what it can do). The experience of this isn't too different to installers on Windows, except with perhaps more defaults set. (It's definitely got better over time; Apple have bothered to look at pain points and what they can do to ease them.)
The OS itself does something else, but that's because it normally lives on a read-only filesystem as a security measure so ordinary installers can't do a thing there.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF Bites:
@dcon Program installers are evil and should not exist as a thing
Do you prefer people running everything directly from their Downloads folder, and wondering where all their programs and data went when it gets purged? Because you know that's the real-world alternative.
It should copy to another location automatically on first run.
That's a very bad idea, also known as "huge security hole".
Applications should no have permissions to write anything in the "installed applications" area --> the installation part must be clearly separated from the application itself.Of course, this is already broken with all the auto-updates, but at least there is an option to do it correctly.
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@dkf That's good enough for the purpose of installers not being crawling horror abominations.
sysadmins who throw up their hands in horror at the thought of "NoT UpDaTiNg tHe LiBrArIeS iF ThErE iS a PrObLeM!!".
⌠as if Windows applications actually shared the shared libraries beyond the system ones and the VS redistributable.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
Of course, this is already broken with all the auto-updates, but at least there is an option to do it correctly.
If the system provided a workable install+upgrade mechanism, those auto-updates wouldn't have to exist.
The mobile platforms (created with the benefit of hindsight) do, and Linux has over time introduced two (snap and flatpak â in addition to the original distribution-specific package managers). Well, Windows tried too with the store, but they made wrapping existing applications too hard, so few vendors bothered.
⌠they also more recently started trying again with winget, but so far as far as I can tell it still can't hold a candle to chocolatey.
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⌠they also more recently started trying again with winget, but so far as far as I can tell it still can't hold a candle to chocolatey.
Insert blakeyrant about CLI
Neither winget nor chocolatey have official GUI. Those are automation tools created and appropriated by nerds who don't mind writing arcane incantations
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF Bites:
Those are automation tools created and appropriated by nerds who don't mind writing arcane incantations
Made by the modern wizards' guild for their members...
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@Applied-Mediocrity I don't need GUI myself. I don't even want GUI myself. But yeah, if it's to be usable by BFU, it does need a GUI for picking packages to installâand a check for updates scheduled taskš
š I scheduled it myself to run after reboot;â11/10 windows installers fail when the application is running in a way chocolatey won't understand and thus know to re-run them next time, so running it at any other time than just after reboot when nothing is running yet is inadvisable. That's another problem with Windows not having standard installer machinery.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
Applications should no have permissions to write anything in the "installed applications" area --> the installation part must be clearly separated from the application itself.
Of course, this is already broken withmany programs, also some of Microsoft, installing themselves in
%localappdata%
or%appdata%
.
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@BernieTheBernie ⌠and they shouldn't. But they do so they can update themselves. Which they do because there is no system-provided updater they could take advantage of. And for histerical raisins. We've known the value of system-provided updater for at least twenty years for fuck's sake, but soft never managed to provide anything actually useful.
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@Bulb It's pretty much the only option to install software as a non-admin user too, no?
Although horrible to begin with, there are a bunch of multi-user Windows machines out there...
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@cvi If the system provided an installation mechanism, it could also provide a way to grant permission to install applications without granting full admin rights. The systems that have a store do allow itâincluding Windows, but Windows store is pain in the arse to port apps into, so most apps don't use it.
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Windows store is pain in the arse to port apps into
I really can't fathom why. I tried it myself and failed miserably....
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
Windows store is pain in the arse to port apps into
I really can't fathom why. I tried it myself and failed miserably....
But that doesn't tell us anything about whether it's hard or not.
Apologies, could not resist.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
Windows store is pain in the arse to port apps into
I really can't fathom why. I tried it myself and failed miserably....
But that doesn't tell us anything about whether it's hard or not.
Apologies, could not resist.
It wasn't hard, just confusing., messy, and dissatisfying as I could never finish.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
Windows store is pain in the arse to port apps into
I really can't fathom why. I tried it myself and failed miserably....
But that doesn't tell us anything about whether it's hard or not.
Apologies, could not resist.
It wasn't hard, just confusing., messy, and dissatisfying as I could never finish.
Still doesn't explain the midget.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
It wasn't hard, just confusing., messy, and dissatisfying as I could never finish.
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More like Bites:
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The only thing stopping other desktop operating systems from doing something similar is the league of sysadmins who throw up their hands in horror at the thought of "NoT UpDaTiNg tHe LiBrArIeS iF ThErE iS a PrObLeM!!".
Imagine the nice things we could have! Log4j at your fingertips!
OK, we could package each application with a little background program that updates ⌠:
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Apropos Windows store: In the previous job, sometime in the 2013â2015 timeframe, we ported our app to the then-still-alive Windows Phone and packaged it for the Windows store so it could be sold for it.
That meant using the Windows RT (what later became the UWP). And while the application started on Windows CE, and that platform was still maintained, the Windows Phone version had its own version of basically all the platform-dependent stuff. Not much more in common with the CE version than the Android and iOS ports had. Basically the Windows RT only have small subset of the Win32 API, but there is completely new graphics API, completely new filesystem API, most things a different, really.
And my understanding is that things in Windows store still have to be UWP, not Win32. For multi-platform applications maybe. For the old Windows-only stuff, yeah, nobody's gonna port that over. Even Microsoft didn't port a lot of their stuff yet.
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@Bulb You can now distribute any Win32 app in the Windows Store.
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@marczellm said in WTF Bites:
@Bulb You can now distribute any Win32 app in the Windows Store.
As evidenced by Paint.Net, WinSCP, Teamviewer and Firefox being residents in the store, among others.
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@Rhywden The multi-platform applications are not much of an evidence because whatever portability layer might support UWPâthough it looks like Gtk indeed does not.
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@marczellm said in WTF Bites:
@Bulb You can now distribute any Win32 app in the Windows Store.
That's good. I've missed that.
Do you know how the installation works then?
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@Rhywden The multi-platform applications are not much of an evidence because whatever portability layer might support UWPâthough it looks like Gtk indeed does not.
First of all, neither Paint.NET nor WinSCP are "multiplatform applications". Secondly, I do not understand what you're trying to convey here because you're quite obtuse. Neither Firefox nor Teamviewer in the store have any "compatibility layer". iTunes of all applications is in there as well (and that one now only is available on Windows, by the way).
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@marczellm said in WTF Bites:
@Bulb You can now distribute any Win32 app in the Windows Store.
That's good. I've missed that.
Do you know how the installation works then?
It kinda works, yes.
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Speaking of @Tsaukpaetra, yesterday I discovered connecting a cable to my desktop's only USB-C port causes immediate reboot. Repro rate 2 out of 2.
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yesterday I discovered connecting a cable to my desktop's only USB-C port causes immediate reboot
Don't do that, then.
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@Zerosquare that's my plan for now, yes. But it does mean getting a VR headset now would require replacing mobo. Perfect timing, too - I was just considering getting one the other day.
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@Zerosquare that's my plan for now, yes. But it does mean getting a VR headset now would require replacing mobo. Perfect timing, too - I was just considering getting one the other day.
Ah, so what you're saying is you were considering getting a VR headset the other day and now because of this you won't.
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@Zecc yup. The original reason was GPU shortage (my current one is WAAAAY underpowered). But that seems to be mostly gone by now, so I needed a new reason.
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@Gustav I thought you were actually considering getting a new mobo and you now had an excuse for it.
I was trying to make a joke about misunderstanding but instead I mis-misunderstood.
Guess the joke's on me.
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This npm watch task is somehow recompiling as I type, without me needing to save the document. What black sorcery is this?
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without me needing to save the document.
Your editor's autosave is being zealous.
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@Tsaukpaetra So it is, but still, why the fuck is it happening?
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why the fuck is it happening?
The watch task observes a change to the relevant part of the filesystem and triggers? That wouldn't be very weird.
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why the fuck is it happening?
The watch task observes a change to the relevant part of the filesystem and triggers? That wouldn't be very weird.
I mean, why is it saving after each character I type?
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@error why wouldn't it? It's all going through FS cache first anyway, it's not like it puts any extra wear on the hardware.
If you ignore existence of recompilation watchers, it makes perfect sense.
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why is it saving after each character I type?
How are we supposed to debug your
.vimrc
?