Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it
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@HardwareGeek said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
The English (American) terms are neutral and
hotliveFTFY
@HardwareGeek said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
for some reason you need to specify a particular phase, but I'm not sure why you'd need to do that).
I've only seen them referred to as L1, L2 and L3 and you need to refer to them so you know whether you are wiring a motor in Delta or Wye configuration. They are black, red and blue in their conductor order with neutral being white if it is present. That only happens on some Wye configurations.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@HardwareGeek said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
"The English (American) terms are neutral andhotlive"FTFY
I've heard both. But also "common" more commonly instead of neutral.
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@Polygeekery I heard it called "Star" rather than "Wye" (a three-point star does look a bit like a three-way symmetrical Y, of course), but the principle remains. And if you have a motor that's wired to use Star to start and Delta to run once up to speed, make sure to wire it so that both of them drive the motor the same way, otherwise bad things happen when you switch over to Delta...
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For extra fun, red isn't automatically 120° forward phase of black. It could also be 180° forward (residential 240v split phase) or a switched traveler. Or positive DC voltage, with black being ground -- the same potential as white on the AC side. And again, that's assuming things are wired correctly; it's entirely possible someone's swapped hot and neutral along the way.
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@TwelveBaud said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
For extra fun, red isn't automatically 120° forward phase of black. It could also be 180° forward (residential 240v split phase) or a switched traveler
For extra fun black and white might not be live and neutral. In some houses that don't have a neutral in the switch box and a lazy man wiring a light/fan controller one of the white-black pairs could very well be load for fan and light.
Now I would never do such a thing.........
But some people.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
lazy man ... I would never
Yeah, I believe you.
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@HardwareGeek you have the innate perception of a Buddhist monk.
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The new house has a four car garage. There are carriage lights in between each garage door and on the outside of the outermost doors. Five carriage lights in total. Each carriage light had three 40w incandescent bulbs in it when we moved in. 600w in total.
So obviously those need replaced with LED bulbs for a massive savings in power usage. I was at Home Depot and I look at the "40w equivalent" bulbs and realize that the "60w equivalent" bulbs are only a few cents more. Obviously I should get those. More brighter is more betterer, right? It's only about 1w more power usage per bulb. No brainer.
You could now suntan in our driveway when the carriage lights are on. I have to decide whether to swap out the bulbs (again) or install a dimmer. It might be nice to set an automation so the dimmer is set to 100% when we get home and then drop it back down to ~60% for the rest of the night.
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@Polygeekery
Don't you hate it when your bright ideas turn out to be pretty dim?
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@izzion you get used to it after a while.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
. I have to decide whether to swap out the bulbs (again) or install a dimmer.
That's assuming the LEDs you got support dimming - not all do!
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@dcon they do. It is something that I always try to look for when purchasing bulbs.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
I always try to look for
Do you always succeed in looking for it? Do you succeed in finding it?
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@HardwareGeek said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
Do you succeed in finding it?
His chances seem pretty dim
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I think @Polygeekery is too bright for his own good.
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@Zerosquare
His future is so bright he gotta wear shades
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@Luhmann the firestarting gear does get quite bright, though.
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@Polygeekery Three-bulb mounts, could you just remove one bulb?
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@PleegWat I suppose so, but it would look goofy.
I have a whole stack of TreatLife dimmers sitting here on my desk. I just need to get around to flashing them with Tasmota and I can get them installed.
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@PleegWat said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Polygeekery Three-bulb mounts, could you just remove one bulb?
One does not simply apply practical solutions to home DIY projects
:mordor.gif:
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@izzion said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
One does not simply apply practical solutions to home DIY projects
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. The KISS principle becomes null and void at my property line.
Now, to apply some sunscreen and unload some stuff in the driveway.
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There's a light fixture in our bedroom that hasn't been working. Tonight I go to investigate.
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@Polygeekery IDGI. Were the wires capped like that initially? Are the brown "wires" what was connected to the fixture?
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@Benjamin-Hall the fixture was never connected to power. That's why it did not work.
I get it. This one is so fucked up that brains draw conclusions that they should not.
It is working now.
Now I have an idea why the light on the master bedroom balcony doesn't work. Previously I thought that it might be a GFCI issue. Now my money is on "wasn't connected".
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power. That's why iit did not work.
Ah. That's...special. Although I've done similar things with software--push a change and wonder why it doesn't work. And then realize that I never wired up the rest of the code to actually call that new function. Or didn't hit save/didn't recompile/didn't actually push the change to the branch.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power. That's why iit did not work.
Ah. That's...special. Although I've done similar things with software--push a change and wonder why it doesn't work. And then realize that I never wired up the rest of the code to actually call that new function. Or didn't hit save/didn't recompile/didn't actually push the change to the branch.
I've never done such a thing. No sirree Bob. I've also never done much worse than that and then spent an inordinate amount of time debugging the situation that I caused.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power
Those connectors have a reputation for spontaneous disconnection. Not used here; totally fails code.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power. That's why iit did not work.
Ah. That's...special. Although I've done similar things with software--push a change and wonder why it doesn't work. And then realize that I never wired up the rest of the code to actually call that new function. Or didn't hit save/didn't recompile/didn't actually push the change to the branch.
I've never done such a thing. No sirree Bob. I've also never done much worse than that and then spent an inordinate amount of time debugging the situation that I caused.
And you've certainly never charged per hour for it?
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
Anything worth doing is worth
overdoinghalf assing.
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@dkf said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power
Those connectors have a reputation for spontaneous disconnection. Not used here; totally fails code.
Really? Never had that problem. What do you guys tend to use?
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@boomzilla said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
What do you guys tend to use?
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@boomzilla said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
What do you guys tend to use?
They usually come in long strips that you can split up into the number of connectors you need. (They also come in different grades depending on how much current you're going to put through; 0.5A connectors are a lot dinkier than 30A ones.)
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@boomzilla said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
What do you guys tend to use?
For this connector, disassembly is not spontaneous, it is mediated via toddler.
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@dkf said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power
Those connectors have a reputation for spontaneous disconnection. Not used here; totally fails code.
I've pretty much stopped using them. I prefer the push in (for solid conductors) or lever type (when doing connections to stranded).
There's a four switch box at the old house where the original electrician ran a half dozen neutrals into one wire nut and the first time I took that one apart it was a bit crispy and because he had really wrenched on it to twist all the wires together it was all work hardened and falling apart. That was about the time that I switched to the newer connectors. Haven't had an issue since and they're much easier to work with.
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@dkf said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
the fixture was never connected to power
Those connectors have a reputation for spontaneous disconnection. Not used here; totally fails code.
In proper use with solid wire the wire nuts are not what's actually making the connection: you twist a bunch of solid wires together to form a splice, then tighten the wire nut onto it just to have some isolation around the splice and slightly improve mechanical stability. The wires themselves should make copper-on-copper contact and be really twisted tight to do that.
As soon as stranded wire gets involved there are far better connectors out there.
If you use these screw terminals with simple stranded wire then you need to verify that they have a little "pressure plate" in them to really flatten the strands. If it just has a bare screw in them pushing on the strands then you risk severing a bunch of strands or only tightening half of them.
However, the best way to use these is to crimp a ferrule onto the stranded wire so that the wire's end can be clamped like a solid wire would. (Using solder as a replacement for ferrules is a bad idea - it doesn't stay solid under long-term pressure and heat.)
EDIT:
@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
Ooh, the pricey but convenient stuff.
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@JBert said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
Using solder as a replacement for ferrules is a bad idea - it doesn't stay solid under long-term pressure and heat.
In addition to its tendency to flow under pressure, it locks the strands together too rigidly which causes vibration or small movements to work harden the outermost strands causing them to break. That cycle repeats until all the strands are broken or resistance gets so high as to cause other issues.
This isn't usually an issue in buildings where the wiring doesn't really move or vibrate much, but is a major issue in vehicles and any application where the wiring will move. I used to work on cars a lot and I found a shitload of solder splices that had failed right on the outside of the joint. Any wiring splice that will see movement or vibration should be a crimp type connection. They are much less likely to fail in this manner as they don't lock the strands so rigidly together and allow a tiny amount of give.
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@JBert said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
Ooh, the pricey but convenient stuff.
That was just the first photo that I could find for that general connector. I only use the 2-3 conductor lever nuts for connection to stranded like in lighting fixtures and such. For the majority of connections I use these:
Ideal makes an affordable version of the push in connectors. I have an organizer case with them in 2-6 conductor models. For the six conductor ones I have them in 6 in a single line and 2x3 versions and for four conductor both single line and 2x2. I have found that when trying to fit a lot of shit in a wiring box it is super handy to have both so you can fit the connector to the space instead of trying to fit the space to the connector.
The push type connectors are also super handy in that you can usually pull on a wire and twist the connector back and forth to remove the wire when needed and they are a fraction of the price of the lever nuts.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
I used to work on cars a lot and I found a shitload of solder splices that had failed right on the outside of the joint.
Oh, and every person who has ever used one of these:
Should know that a few years down the road someone hated you. Those things are absolute garbage. IDCs on stranded are always a horrible idea and will always lead to failure in the future. IDCs on any joint that will see much movement is also a horrible idea.
If you have ever pulled a U-Haul trailer and had U-Haul installed a trailer light connector for you, those are what they used to install it and at some point your tail lights and/or trailer lights are going to have issues. Most annoyingly they will have intermittent problems and those are a pain in the ass to diagnose. But in general if you ever have issues with tail lights on a vehicle and you see a tow bar on it, look at the brand and if it says U-Haul just start looking for where they used those quick splices and there is a nearly 100% chance that is where the problem is.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
IDCs on stranded are always a horrible idea and will always lead to failure in the future.
I don't know if that's a general rule. Flat ribbon cables (like those old IDE and floppy drive ones) use IDC connectors on stranded wire, and are reasonably reliable.
On the other hand, they're typically used in low-current, low-vibration applications. I.e. the opposite of automotive use.
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@Zerosquare fair.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
IDCs on stranded are always a horrible idea and will always lead to failure in the future.
Thinking about it after @Zerosquare replied, there are some IDCs on stranded that are widespread and work well. But those quick splices always suck because they cut through some of the strands and on a long enough timeline they will always fail.
Another place where I am dead set against IDCs on stranded are RJ45 plugs. I have had extremely poor luck trying to terminate stranded Cat5E/Cat6/etc. cable. I gave up on it years ago and I do not even purchase stranded cable or connectors anymore.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
stranded Cat5E/Cat6/etc
TIL that such a thing exists
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@hungrier said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
TIL that such a thing exists
You've never cut apart a store bought patch cable? Almost all of them are stranded. At least the ones I have cut up are and I have frequently used them when I need some thin stranded wire such as when wiring up 3D printers.
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@Polygeekery I haven't. I've got a handful of store bought cables and a big spool of CAT6 that I've been terminating and using as needed
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@Polygeekery I just found out about those. I now have a couple boxes.
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@dcon Wago Lever-Nuts run from $0.40/per up to nearly a buck a piece. You can buy Ideal In-Sure connectors for $0.10-$0.15/per. They're just as convenient for a fraction of the price but they do not work on small wire gauge stranded like on lighting fixtures so for those the two conductor Lever-Nuts are worth the premium.
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@Polygeekery I haven't been doing much electrical recently, so I got them more as a "I'm ready now" thing. I'll have to look into the Ideal ones too... (always good to have more gadgets in the workshop!)
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Something else that is super handy that I discovered when I refit the last house with smart switches and stuff, old work boxes that attach via screws.
They're much more secure than the type with the fold out wings that clamp onto the drywall. The screw in old work boxes are also very deep, which they sort of have to be. They're 4" front to back so you cut your hole right next to a stud and then slip it into place and it buts up against the drywall on the other side of the wall and then you just screw it into place.
At the old house the walls were not drywall, they had two layers of some material I have only ever seen there and were nearly 3/4" thick so when I used the wing type old work boxes I had to replace the screws with longer ones and they never held very well. With the newer type of boxes I did have to put a ~1/4" spacer on the back but other than that minor inconvenience they were flawless.
Of course they are about 3X the cost of the cheap wing type old work boxes but I think it is money well spent. At the old house I had to cut out almost every single existing box in order to get a neutral ran to the box and also in order to have space for the much bulkier smart switches.
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@Polygeekery said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
they had two layers of some material I have only ever seen there
Lath and plaster, maybe?
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@dcon said in Mostly not internet, and mostly just as shit as you make it:
always good to have more gadgets in the workshop!
+ℵ1!