WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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Status: TIL when you're connected with a wireless display in Windows 10 a little toolbar appears at the top of your primary display telling you you're connected. Nifty.
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Hi @ll,
in December 2017, Microsoft announced to ship curl.exe and tar.exe
with Windows 10:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/community/team-blog/2017/20171219-tar-and-curl-come-to-windowsBut they failed once again, MISERABLY, at least for curl: they took
the sources released 2017-11-14, let them rot for 2 years, applied
some patches, only to let them rot again since then!C:\Users\Public>winver Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.19042.1083] C:\Users\Public>curl -V curl 7.55.1 (Windows) libcurl/7.55.1 WinSSL Release-Date: 2017-11-14, security patched: 2019-11-05 Protocols: dict file ftp ftps http https imap imaps pop3 pop3s smtp smtps telnet tftp Features: AsynchDNS IPv6 Largefile SSPI Kerberos SPNEGO NTLM SSL Version 7.55.1 is 34 releases and at least 15 (in words: FIFTEEN)
and
CVEs behind the current version 7.79.1: see
Most obviously Microsoft's processes are so bad that they can't
build a current version and have to ship ROTTEN software instead!stay tuned, and far away from such poorly maintained crap
Stefan Kanthak
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@boomzilla TRWTF is of course that after 20 years of development, there are still new vulnerabilities popping up. And not complicated ones either - of the 35 CVEs in the version in question, 21 are basic memory errors (missing array bound check or using unallocated/freed pointer) and 2 more are uninitialized variables. It's not like they're introducing new features either. It just downloads one file from internet to disk. How hard can it be!?
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@Gąska angry @Mason_Wheeler noises
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
How hard can it be!?
[ed: Very hard.]
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
after 20 years of development, there are still new vulnerabilities popping up
You think they are all
new
?
Really?
Though it's true we bugs can propagate rather quickly in software businesses, it is also true that in the software world, every day is EASTER (the day of resurrection, if you don't know that...) for us bugs !
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@BernieTheBernie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
after 20 years of development, there are still new vulnerabilities popping up
You think they are all
new
?
Really?CVEs list the first affected version. Over half of them is 7.20 or newer, and 7.20 was released in 2010 - that's relatively new considering thd project started in 1996. One buffer overflow vulnerability is from 2016, just a year before the MS's version was released. And a recent version 7.75, released on February 3 2021, introduced a brand new use-after-free bug in SSL handling (CVE-2021-22901).
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And not complicated ones either - of the 35 CVEs in the version in question, 21 are basic memory errors (missing array bound check or using unallocated/freed pointer) and 2 more are uninitialized variables.
All security / networking related code really should be rewritten in rust or (preferably) something better. Those are supposedly experts yet their C is full of rookie mistakes.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
their C is full of rookie mistakes
The usual problems are to do with trying to “be efficient” while using the C standard string functions, and that's really quite difficult. If you instead have a library that hides the storage details more, you're not tempted to take dangerous shortcuts.
I'm not convinced that Rust's got it right. It exposes far too many details of how storage works; it might allow efficient implementation (but that's not certain, as it depends critically on management of the number of copies) but it makes programming with the API difficult. Some people like such difficulty at least some of the time, but a lot of people prefer to leave such details more to the implementation and not have to go all obsessive over tracking the details themselves. After all, they have a life. Rust is obviously written by people exposed to C++ as young programmers.
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Rust is obviously written by people exposed to C++ as young programmers.
Which is still preferable to people being exposed to C, or using it to write security critical code.
Use a language that supports sane abstractions. In C, I guess you can hide everything in a library but manual resource management is still everywhere. In C++ you shouldn’t do manual resource management. Rust takes this much further, and only
unsafe
blocks are unsafe afaiui. (One of my biggest issues in C++ is that I can’t prove astring_view
doesn’t outlive itsstring
.) For critical code like this, I’d like to see a language that takes compile time verification even further.And obviously higher-level languages with big runtimes and GCs are right out when the library developers already refuse to do anything but pure C.
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Some people like such difficulty at least some of the time, but a lot of people prefer to leave such details more to the implementation and not have to go all obsessive over tracking the details themselves.
Look. We're talking about C programmers. In 2021. People who willingly chose C over 300 other, more modern alternatives. Do you really think this is the kind of people who would be bothered by having to obsessively track all the details themselves?
And at least Rust compiler keeps track of whether you've got all details right. If there's any possibility that you may be using some pointer incorrectly, it flat out won't compile.
Not to mention that the notion of having to track every little detail in Rust is false to begin with. It's a high level language, you can do all the high-level stuff you want, the only difference is that there are extra checks around memory and lifetime of objects.
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My first experience with a real programming language was in school with C. About 2002. Using a DOS-based “IDE”. In retrospect, it’s amazing I went back and tried other languages instead of running away screaming.
Although I am interested in trying to find out what we used to write code in, and then try to make an IDE theme with the 16 colors available. I remember it was a “dark theme” as it used the standard black background.
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the standard black background.
I really do wonder why skeuomorphism took off like it did. Oh you want the screen to look like paper? Fuck you, print it out like you're going to anyways!
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Although I am interested in trying to find out what we used to write code in, and then try to make an IDE theme with the 16 colors available. I remember it was a “dark theme” as it used the standard black background.
Wasn't a Borland product then. Both Turbo Pascal (which I quite enjoyed) and Borland C++ used their Turbo Vision framework with text mode "windows" and a blue background.
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@boomzilla I had thought that the Proper Way™ in modern Windows was to use the Powershell equivalent
Invoke-WebRequest
, rather than having curl or wget included
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@hungrier maybe but I take this as MS admitting that no one uses Powershell.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the standard black background.
I really do wonder why skeuomorphism took off like it did. Oh you want the screen to look like paper? Fuck you, print it out like you're going to anyways!
White background isn't skeuomorphism, it's basic human biology - it's just easier to read than dark background. But it makes sense for someone without biological parts to not know that.
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I'm pretty sure @Tsaukpaetra does have biological parts, including some that he would be willing to use if he had the chance.
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@Gąska if that's true why are so many dev-heavy tools skewed towards a dark background on the theory that it's less tiring on the eyes?
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Isn't it well-known that programmers are creatures that live in caves, and thus prefer darkness?
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska if that's true why are so many dev-heavy tools skewed towards a dark background on the theory that it's less tiring on the eyes?
Devs are horrible designers. Ugh...I hate most dark mode stuff. I think the only thing I regularly use that on is my e-reader apps, which I often do read in the dark.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska if that's true why are so many dev-heavy tools skewed towards a dark background on the theory that it's less tiring on the eyes?
Whether dark text on a light background is easier to read than vice versa, the theory is that blasting a screen full of white light, constantly flickering at 60 Hz, is harder on your eyes than a dark screen with small bright spots on it
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska if that's true why are so many dev-heavy tools skewed towards a dark background
For the same reason why all high-end mice have RGB lighting - some people think it's cool and the rest of us doesn't care one way or the other because we're not fucking children.
on the theory that it's less tiring on the eyes?
Would it be the first time pseudoscience was used to justify bullshit?
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska if that's true why are so many dev-heavy tools skewed towards a dark background on the theory that it's less tiring on the eyes?
Whether dark text on a light background is easier to read than vice versa, the theory is that blasting a screen full of white light, constantly flickering at 60 Hz, is harder on your eyes than a dark screen with small bright spots on it
Which, if you know how LCDs work, should be immediately obvious why it's a pile of crap.
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@Gąska Wow! I didn't know they had 2021's LCDs in the late 70's and early 80's, when people who were planning on "computing for the masses" were working on those theories! I thought they had 70Hz cathode ray tubes instead!
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@TwelveBaud it's your own goddamn fault for not specifying the timeframe. There are people who still believe that bullshit even on modern displays, you know.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska if that's true why are so many dev-heavy tools skewed towards a dark background on the theory that it's less tiring on the eyes?
Because they're idiots.
Wait, , so let's go with:
I think it heavily depends on ambient light. In a normally lit office white background is easier on the eyes. At night, when there's less ambient light and your vision adapts, then dark background may be better. That's why the current fad is to switch automatically between light mode at day and dark mode at night.
Except for the designer and/or dev morons who still have everything on dark mode all day, and sell it as an amazing new feature that wasn't already available in Windows 3.11hot dog stand.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
morons who still have everything on dark mode all day
Except here because all the dark mode themes are incomplete.I generally find it easier to look at.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
morons who still have everything on dark mode all day
Except here because all the dark mode themes are incomplete.I generally find it easier to look at.
Same, except I have augmented the best dark theme here (Slate) with more darker and more better improvements
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Except here because all the dark mode themes are incomplete.
Almost all the themes are incomplete, both light and dark.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Same, except I have augmented the best dark theme here (Slate) with more darker and more better improvements
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
morons who still have everything on dark mode all day
I’m happy you found your free insult.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
At night, when there's less ambient light and your vision adapts, then dark background may be better.
That ain't true either. In fact, white background helps at night more than during the day. Because there's less light, the iris has to contract more, putting extra stress on the eye and also making it more sensitive to flashes of light because the retina is more exposed. But these are all marginal effects with no long term impact.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Because there's less light, the iris has to contract more, putting extra stress on the eye
[citation needed]
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
and also making it more sensitive to flashes of light
What kind of IDE are you using?!
Meanwhile, too much light at night disturbs sleep cycles. And software for people who actually work in dark environments (e.g. handling sound and lighting on stage) have been using dark themes for a long time.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Because there's less light, the iris has to contract more, putting extra stress on the eye
[citation needed]
"Black text on a white background is best, since the color properties and light are best suited for the human eye."
"Because of the reflection, our irises don’t need to open as wide to absorb the white light. That leaves our irises in a neutral position and allows us to see with better clarity."
"White text on a black background, or “dark mode,” makes the eye work harder and open wider, since it needs to absorb more light."@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
and also making it more sensitive to flashes of light
What kind of IDE are you using?!
One that runs on a computer that exists in a physical world. You know, where ambulances drive nearby every couple weeks and where there's an occasional thunderstorm. I said this is all marginal, didn't I?
Meanwhile, too much light at night disturbs sleep cycles.
I think the fact you're sitting all night coding has more impact than a bit of extra light.
And software for people who actually work in dark environments (e.g. handling sound and lighting on stage) have been using dark themes for a long time.
Because you don't want them to be seen. Despite all the jokes, I doubt this applies to software developers just yet.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And software for people who actually work in dark environments (e.g. handling sound and lighting on stage) have been using dark themes for a long time.
Because you don't want them to be seen. Despite all the jokes, I doubt this applies to software developers just yet.
This. They use the minimum lighting (both equipment and environmental) possible, because they want the audience, sitting in the dark, to see the performance without being distracted by blinking lights from the equipment. It's also why they wear dark colors (or "show black" if they're actually on stage); they want to avoid attracting attention to themselves. The exception is musicians, who are happy to have lots of blinking lights from their guitar amps and whatnot; the bigger the rack of equipment, the bigger the e-peen.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
"Black text on a white background is best, since the color properties and light are best suited for the human eye."
"Because of the reflection, our irises don’t need to open as wide to absorb the white light. That leaves our irises in a neutral position and allows us to see with better clarity."
"White text on a black background, or “dark mode,” makes the eye work harder and open wider, since it needs to absorb more light."Okay. But the same article also says this:
The jury is still out on whether or not dark mode is better for reducing eye strain, but we can confirm a few things:
• Dark mode can reduce eye strain in low-light conditions.
(...)
In essence, we recommend using a dark theme when you’re in low lightSo it's more complex that "dark theme is bad".
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
One that runs on a computer that exists in a physical world. You know, where ambulances drive nearby every couple weeks and where there's an occasional thunderstorm.
Get a Tesla. That should help you get rid of those pesky ambulances.
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I think the fact you're sitting all night coding has more impact than a bit of extra light.
Maybe, but switching to dark theme is one-click, while not coding at night is not an option
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
"Because of the reflection, our irises don’t need to open as wide to absorb the white light. ..."
What does that sentence even mean. What reflection?
The other article the link to talks about reflections in snow and UV. At least the latter isn't an issue when it comes to screens. The illumination levels from a screen and on a sunny day are quite far apart, so I'm not sure what the point of that comparison is.
FWIW- there are different mechanism that play into low-light vision. It takes minutes to tens of minutes (see here) to adapt to a certain light level. If you go between two wildly mismatching levels of illumination, it'll be quite strenuous.
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It’s almost the middle of the day, ish, and the darkish background of WTDWTF I have here seems to far better match the ambient lighting conditions than the white backgrounds of stuff on the other monitor. And that’s with the screens’ brightnesses turned down a ton.
LCD backlights are bright and I’m not working outside in direct sunlight where any of that could be remotely useful. If I had all the lights turned off in the middle of the night, a “dark theme” will still illuminate the room fairly effectively.
Seriously, just hold up a white piece of paper next to a white desktop window and compare.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
In a normally lit office white background
I'm half convinced the natural dev environment is a quiet dark cave-like experience...
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What kind of IDE are you using?!
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@cvi said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What does that sentence even mean. What reflection?
Didn't you know? The black reflects the light into your iris which is what you see. This is also why taking pictures of eyes can show you the code.
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@kazitor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And that’s with the screens’ brightnesses turned down a ton.
After my laptop booted I was like "Holy shit that's bright" and promptly reduced it to 30%.
Plus it also increases battery life a bit, win win!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Thanks. I was thinking of mentioning this thing, but I couldn't remember how it was called.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Thanks. I was thinking of mentioning this thing, but I couldn't remember how it was called.
It took me seven minutes to find it myself...
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Get a Tesla. That should help you get rid of those pesky ambulances.
I'm not quite following the reasoning here.
Is it because they crash into ambulances?
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Is it because they crash into ambulances?
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@dkf But that will only bring more ambulances. It's clearly not a long time solution.
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@dkf But that will only bring more ambulances.
How else are you supposed to rack up massive combo streaks?
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