Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Again at my ENT's office, my temperature measured too low for 5 or so times.
Finally 96.7 was accepted.If it reads that low, how many actual fevers do they miss?
At the dog shows I've been to recently (but no more since CA went full
), I was pretty consistently between 92 and 94.I've wondered the same thing.
edit: Guess that shows the reliability of consumer touch-less thermometers.
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@dcon they were very reliable up until they started determining your legal ability to work.
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
reliability of consumer touch-less thermometers
The only truly reliable way of measuring the core temperature is internally (e.g., rectal), but there are obvious drawbacks to that, especially in public places. Anything that measures the temperature of an external surface is subject to influence by ambient conditions, as well as differences from the real body core. Even the traditional oral thermometer, which is internal, sort of, will typically read about 1 °F lower than a rectal thermometer, or more if you recently ate or drank something hot or cold. Ear and forehead thermometers will be influenced by air temperature.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
reliability of consumer touch-less thermometers
The only truly reliable way of measuring the core temperature is internally (e.g., rectal), but there are obvious drawbacks to that, especially in public places. Anything that measures the temperature of an external surface is subject to influence by ambient conditions, as well as differences from the real body core. Even the traditional oral thermometer, which is internal, sort of, will typically read about 1 °F lower than a rectal thermometer, or more if you recently ate or drank something hot or cold. Ear and forehead thermometers will be influenced by air temperature.
And since they're non-contact, you also have the miscalibration factor for various skin emissivities--IR thermometers require good calibration for different surfaces. And if you just came in from the cold, your forehead is going to be colder than your core.
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Again at my ENT's office, my temperature measured too low for 5 or so times.
Finally 96.7 was accepted.If it reads that low, how many actual fevers do they miss?
At the dog shows I've been to recently (but no more since CA went full
), I was pretty consistently between 92 and 94.I've wondered the same thing.
edit: Guess that shows the reliability of consumer touch-less thermometers.
Well then Kevin (Karen), you should ask to see their manager if they won't allow you enter.
I can't let you in - it is policy - see we have signs.
Can I please speak to a manager?
Sir, but it is policy.
I understand that. I also understand that programs have bugs, that measuring devices are not necessarily accurate, and there are many humans such as myself who are particularly below average (
) in their body temp. So PLEASE can I speak to a manager.
But sir...
<just a bit louder, deeper, and more stern> Please!
~
~
goes in back
~
~
Well, let me see. Hmm, your temperature indicates that you will die of hypothermia within the next few hours.
Wait, what? My temp just runs low.
I'll let you off with a warning this time. But do get that hypothermia looked at before you come back.
Not really a Kevin (Karen) because speaking to the manager was a reasonable request.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
if you just came in from the cold, your forehead is going to be colder than your core.
Exactly. But even if you didn't just come in from the cold, it will still be cooler than your core.
The body generates heat at a rate of about 100W when relaxed, more when active — about 1kW when running. In order to maintain a constant internal temperature, that heat must be dissipated into the environment, and virtually all of it is dissipated through the skin. Basic thermodynamics dictates that in order for heat to flow from the core to the skin where it can be dissipated, the skin must be at a lower temperature. How much lower depends the core temperature, the ambient temperature, and the rate at which the heat needs to be dissipated. The more heat your body is producing (exercising vs. resting), the greater the difference needs to be to transfer the heat from the core at the required rate.
Those factors could be calibrated away if they were known, but they're not, and they vary from person to person and with time for any given person; and none of them are considered when somebody points a thermometer at your forehead to decide whether to allow you into some public space.
Edit: I a word.
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@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Well then Kevin
Having just written a short treatise on thermodynamics, I read this as "Kelvin".
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Well then Kevin
Having just written a short treatise on thermodynamics, I read this as "Kelvin".
I was hoping it would be funny but that's not what I was thinking. LOL
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@Karla: they refuse you entry because your temperature is too low? What kind of stupidity is that?!
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
reliability of consumer touch-less thermometers
The only truly reliable way of measuring the core temperature is internally (e.g., rectal), but there are obvious drawbacks to that, especially in public places. Anything that measures the temperature of an external surface is subject to influence by ambient conditions, as well as differences from the real body core. Even the traditional oral thermometer, which is internal, sort of, will typically read about 1 °F lower than a rectal thermometer, or more if you recently ate or drank something hot or cold. Ear and forehead thermometers will be influenced by air temperature.
Around here the standard place to measure temperature—given contact thermometer—is the armpit. That's external (so less concern about hygiene), but as well protected from the ambient air as possible. For a contact-less, trying to measure the inside of ear is probably most reliable since there is at least not strong air flow.
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon they were very reliable up until they started determining your legal ability to work.
Not according to my sources. Every time I've seen some comparison tests, results of contactless thermometers measuring on the forehead were all over the place by as much as 1.2°C—which is the whole range of normal body temperatures. The contactless thermometers measuring the inside of the ear were a bit better, but only contact thermometers were ever accurate to better than 0.5°C.
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@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The contactless thermometers measuring the inside of the ear were a bit better, but only contact thermometers were ever accurate to better than 0.5°C.
This is a bit surprising, as I've seen doctors use those. But maybe the models they use are more accurate than the over-the-counter stuff.
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@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
For a contact-less, trying to measure the inside of ear is probably most reliable since there is at least not strong air flow.
It's also good as it is near some significant arteries keeping the brain going, and the body doesn't restrict that flow under all but the most extreme circumstances.
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The contactless thermometers measuring the inside of the ear were a bit better, but only contact thermometers were ever accurate to better than 0.5°C.
This is a bit surprising, as I've seen doctors use those. But maybe the models they use are more accurate than the over-the-counter stuff.
I suspect that it's not that doctors have more accurate ones, but that they have much more other knowledge to assess the state of a patient. They probably just use the temperature as one more data point to guide them towards their diagnostic, and don't really care about the accuracy of the thing (would they really prescribe you something different if you had a temperature 0.5C higher/lower, and all other identical symptoms?). They might even do it partly for show, because this is something that we expect when going to the doctor and a significant part of their role for everyday small diseases is psychological.
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The contactless thermometers measuring the inside of the ear were a bit better, but only contact thermometers were ever accurate to better than 0.5°C.
This is a bit surprising, as I've seen doctors use those. But maybe the models they use are more accurate than the over-the-counter stuff.
±0.5°C is usually good enough for a GP. If you have severe fever, you are more than a 1.0°C above normal temperature and for that the accuracy is good enough. They still have the contact thermometers if they want a more accurate measurement, but usually other symptoms will be more representative anyway.
@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
For a contact-less, trying to measure the inside of ear is probably most reliable since there is at least not strong air flow.
It's also good as it is near some significant arteries keeping the brain going, and the body doesn't restrict that flow under all but the most extreme circumstances.
I haven't heard of measuring on the neck though.
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Heh. I wonder why I imagined this will go without its moments. So I had to go and get tested today. And...
I went to the wrong place
Different lab, different company. Gubmint-funded test, of course, but "computer says no".Yesterday morning I called my GP that I was feeling unwell, more than the usual breathing troubles, fatigue, pains, sore throat, pretty much the Covid starter pack standard issue. Was given a testing number and a number to call for appointment, called it five times and no luck getting through. All the while the helpful recording insistently tried to convince me that I don't need to bother calling and I can register electronically. Oh the endless wonders of tecknology!
I went to the gubbermint site. I've used it several times to register for various appointments. Janky as fuck, doesn't work in private mode, doesn't work in anything but the latest Chrome. But I got the appointment, got it confirmed. Immediately got a reminder message to my phone not to forget about my appointment, too. In retrospect I may have been delirious. I can't otherwise explain that I believed the system let me be confirmed for the test (thus claiming the 10 minute timeslot), because GP must have pressed the right buttons on their side or something. No! Anyone can register anywhere!
today...
Please, here, your ID and appointment?
My appointment? I registered online.
You still need an appointment from GP.
I was given a testing number.
I see. You've come to the wrong place. The number is for {$LAB}.
I... well...And here something that I'm truly grateful - to
. It's a horrible job. I don't even want to make fun of her that spacesuit emoji. It doesn't even look like a spacesuit. I want to make fun of the system, the stupid computers and the gubbermint. I just can't figure out how. But in that system there are people that aren't just pencilcotton swab pushers, but actually do things to help people. Well, you're here, let's see what I can do. What's your GP?
*two calls later*
Ok, we'll take you. Sit down over there.Likely not the first time.
But that's not all...
So there's a door and large, distinctly unfriendly letters "DO NOT ENTER". And some asshole still opens the door. I'm in there sitting, there's a biosuit going around the room, it's a fucking testing center for a goddamn virus we've been collectively fucked over by for almost a year. And the clown doesn't close the door in a fucking hurry.
What the bloody fuck, dumbass? 
stammers and mumbles something, waves hands
swiftly locks the door in front of the clownface without a word
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla: they refuse you entry because your temperature is too low? What kind of stupidity is that?!
They didn't refuse entry. They just made me repeat the test until it showed I had a 'normal' temperature.
I suppose after a couple minutes my forehead adjusted to the room temperature because it was a bit chilly out.
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Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
There you go!
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
I wouldn’t expect anything else from your average person who’s been trained (or at least told) to perform a given task, but not what to do when something occurs that’s some way outside of the expected results.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla in moments like this, I start wondering who was doing calibration and what was their real goal.
Nobody and/or being as cheap/lazy as possible.
Filed under: Hanlon's razor-ish
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
reliability of consumer touch-less thermometers
The only truly reliable way of measuring the core temperature is internally (e.g., rectal), but there are obvious drawbacks to that, especially in public places. Anything that measures the temperature of an external surface is subject to influence by ambient conditions, as well as differences from the real body core. Even the traditional oral thermometer, which is internal, sort of, will typically read about 1 °F lower than a rectal thermometer, or more if you recently ate or drank something hot or cold. Ear and forehead thermometers will be influenced by air temperature.
Hmm, that's kind of disappointing, I was just thinking about getting an ear thermometer. I got the normal digital contact thermometer and using it orally each time I tried to figure out if I have a fever or normal temperature it was below normal, sometimes more than the 0.5°C you have to add as rule of thumb for oral measurement. Which I interpreted as "well, doesn't look like a fever" but still left me uneasy that I wouldn't see it even if my temperature was above (but not way above) normal.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
So there's a door and large, distinctly unfriendly letters "DO NOT ENTER". And some asshole still opens the door. I'm in there sitting, there's a biosuit going around the room, it's a fucking testing center for a goddamn virus we've been collectively fucked over by for almost a year. And the clown doesn't close the door in a fucking hurry.
What the bloody fuck, dumbass? stammers and mumbles something, waves hands
swiftly locks the door in front of the clownface without a wordMy mom works in a hospital and obviously has do deal with a lot of Covid patients lately. When there's a patient which is suspected or confirmed Covid, they do the full disposable suit, gloves, and mask thing, but not "space suit" / hazmat suite style. I guess the latter would provide better protection, but you can't really pull that off correctly without a full decontamination chamber, somebody to help you in/out of it, etc., and it's impractical to do it a few times a day.
Anyways, the whole thing is supposed to help them stay safe, but it's obviously not perfect protection.Supposed to take a lung x-ray of a patient who's covid positive. Dude comes into the radiology room with my mom, sits there, takes his mask off.
: Sir, would you please put on your mask?
: How did you not lose your shit and yell at him?!
: Can't do that. Also, they'd file a complaint.
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
Also known as "web development"
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@izzion said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
Also known as "web development"
I'm in this post and don't like it.
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@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
Isn't that how they initially completely missed the hole in the ozone layer?
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@PleegWat Given what a total shitshow actual deployed-in-the-environment measurement devices often are, it's at least a reasonable initial guess. They go wrong far more often than they find something interesting…
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@dkf The story I recall, the hole in the ozone layer is a seasonal phenomenon, and the satellite was discarding all south pole data for half the year because the data was 'obviously wrong'. So after a couple of expeditions found numbers which didn't match the satellite's aggregates they dove into the raw data and found out the hole's been there as long as we've had measurements.
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@PleegWat Some quick Googleing points to this article:
Research Satellites for Atmospheric Science, 1978-Present
NASA and its affiliated agencies and research institutions developed a series of research satellites that have enabled scientists to test new remote sensing technologies that have advanced scientific understanding of both chemical and physical changes in the atmosphere.
NASA [...] found that it too had detected a dramatic loss of ozone over all of Antarctica. Why hadn't they discovered the phenomenon earlier? Unfortunately, the TOMS data analysis software had been programmed to flag and set aside data points that deviated greatly from expected measurements and so the initial measurements that should have set off alarms were simply overlooked. In short, the TOMS team failed to detect the ozone depletion years earlier because it was much more severe than scientists expected.
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@izzion said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Zerosquare said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. If your measurement device gives an implausible result, don't question its accuracy, just measure again and again until you end up with a vaguely believable number.
Also known as "web development"
Take that shit to the
!
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Emmanuel Macron: Positive test prompts European leaders to self-isolate
French President Emmanuel Macron tests positive for Covid-19 after meeting other leaders recently.
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Chicago-area hospital to resume vaccinations after 4 workers experience adverse reactions: report
A hospital north of Chicago says it plans to resume coronavirus vaccinations for its staff Sunday, following a temporary pause after four employees experienced adverse reactions to the Pfizer treatment.
https://www.wect.com/2020/12/19/employers-can-require-covid-vaccine-us-says/
"You don't want to take the vaccine? You're fired!"
"But Boss, haven't you seen the reports about adverse re-"
"Fake news! Don't care!"
"And there has also been at least one report of a 104°F fever in an adult during a vaccine trial..."
"It's winter! Shouldn't you be happy you have the chance to be that warm without winter clothing? But nooooo, you can't be a good team player, can you? Pack your shit!"
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The guidelines added that while the worker may be excluded from physically entering the workplace for refusing to be vaccinated, that does not mean the employer may automatically terminate the worker.
(okay, that's the theory)
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the “pandemic” narrative
We have a vaccine now. We don’t need false positives anymore.
Lo and behold, the number of “positive cases” will plummet, and we’ll have confirmation that our miracle vaccine works.
Yeah, the pandemic hoax is in its last stages so we can finally replace the batteries in the birds.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
"You don't want to take the vaccine? You're fired!"
"But Boss, haven't you seen the reports about adverse re-"
"Fake news! Don't care!"
"And there has also been at least one report of a 104°F fever in an adult during a vaccine trial..."
"It's winter! Shouldn't you be happy you have the chance to be that warm without winter clothing? But nooooo, you can't be a good team player, can you? Pack your shit!"So… the anti-anti-COVID-measures crowd among Republicans is forming an unlikely pro-worker's-rights coalition with progressive Democrats now and suddenly arguing against at-will employment? And I thought 2020 couldn't get any weirder.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
the “pandemic” narrative
We have a vaccine now. We don’t need false positives anymore.
Lo and behold, the number of “positive cases” will plummet, and we’ll have confirmation that our miracle vaccine works.
Yeah, the pandemic hoax is in its last stages so we can finally replace the batteries in the birds.
Don't hurt yourself. Just because there's a legitimate pandemic going around doesn't mean that there's a lot of bullshit. On all sides. That said, ZeroHedge has a pretty high tinfoil hat quotient.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
the “pandemic” narrative
We have a vaccine now. We don’t need false positives anymore.
Lo and behold, the number of “positive cases” will plummet, and we’ll have confirmation that our miracle vaccine works.
Yeah, the pandemic hoax is in its last stages so we can finally replace the batteries in the birds.
Don't hurt yourself. Just because there's a legitimate pandemic going around doesn't mean that there's a lot of bullshit. On all sides. That said, ZeroHedge has a pretty high tinfoil hat quotient.
Look at it differently: considering the global, overarching scale of this pandemic it would be unprecedented, nigh impossible that there’s not at least some “bullshit” going on. A lot of it, actually. That’s perfectly normal, all things considered.
That is, however, a far cry from the absolute garbage conclusions this apparent conspiracy theorist is drawing.There is a pandemic. It’s affected millions of people, with well over a million deceased, and there are several vaccine candidates showing high efficacy and low side effects. There is no need for anyone to fabricate a non-existent virus to develop a vaccine. Cui Bono?
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So a new mutation of COVID surfaced in the UK last Monday. Over this weekend this has led to ramping isolating measures - all flights as well as the eurostar have been cancelled. Ferries stopped running early this evening, and though they will reputedly resume running for freight some time soon, there are no passengers allowed - even Dutch citizens are not allowed to travel back to The Netherlands.
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In other, more negative news (because this year just can’t give us a break):
New coronavirus variant: What do we know?
How has a new coronavirus variant become the most common form of the virus in parts of England?
Half of Europe has shut down or is shutting down flights from the UK, but it seems to have already spread here, so that’s unlikely to delay things much longer.
by a minute.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Cui Bono?
It's fitting here, but: God, I've learned to hate that question. Most of the time, it's a completely irrelevant and stupid thing to ask, and 90% of all crazy conspiracy theories (including those about COVID-19) start with that damn question. Because people love to see patterns that don't actually exist and refuse to accept that coincidences and humanity's collective stupidity cause most of our problems.
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Oh yeah? And what do you gain by making us believe that?!
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@Zerosquare A sense of pride and accomplishment.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
the “pandemic” narrative
We have a vaccine now. We don’t need false positives anymore.
Lo and behold, the number of “positive cases” will plummet, and we’ll have confirmation that our miracle vaccine works.
Yeah, the pandemic hoax is in its last stages so we can finally replace the batteries in the birds.
Don't hurt yourself. Just because there's a legitimate pandemic going around doesn't mean that there's a lot of bullshit. On all sides. That said, ZeroHedge has a pretty high tinfoil hat quotient.
Look at it differently: considering the global, overarching scale of this pandemic it would be unprecedented, nigh impossible that there’s not at least some “bullshit” going on. A lot of it, actually. That’s perfectly normal, all things considered.
That is, however, a far cry from the absolute garbage conclusions this apparent conspiracy theorist is drawing.So...how do you explain the retarded PCR cycle counts? And the retarded "case" metrics that relate to it. And all the nonsense lockdowns, etc, that are justified by both of those?
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There is a pandemic. It’s affected millions of people, with well over a million deceased
I can agree that it is true that there are over a million people who were affected by the virus who are also dead now
. But saying they're "covid deaths" looks like you're falling for the very bullshit you're warning about.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There is a pandemic. It’s affected millions of people, with well over a million deceased
I can agree that it is true that there are over a million people who were affected by the virus who are also dead now
. But saying they're "covid deaths" looks like you're falling for the very bullshit you're warning about.You can look at the excess deaths to see that, and add to that the reduction in other deaths (e.g. traffic incidents) we’ve seen. I have no idea how bad some places screw up their counting, but I’m pretty sure over here it’s not all made up.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There is a pandemic. It’s affected millions of people, with well over a million deceased
I can agree that it is true that there are over a million people who were affected by the virus who are also dead now
. But saying they're "covid deaths" looks like you're falling for the very bullshit you're warning about.You can look at the excess deaths to see that, and add to that the reduction in other deaths (e.g. traffic incidents) we’ve seen. I have no idea how bad some places screw up their counting, but I’m pretty sure over here it’s not all made up.
Sure, but there's a lot of daylight between "all made up" and "we must close all schools and you can't walk outside and other random shit like trying to shut down outdoors dining."
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There is a pandemic. It’s affected millions of people, with well over a million deceased
I can agree that it is true that there are over a million people who were affected by the virus who are also dead now
. But saying they're "covid deaths" looks like you're falling for the very bullshit you're warning about.You can look at the excess deaths to see that, and add to that the reduction in other deaths (e.g. traffic incidents) we’ve seen. I have no idea how bad some places screw up their counting, but I’m pretty sure over here it’s not all made up.
Sure, but there's a lot of daylight between "all made up" and "we must close all schools and you can't walk outside and other random shit like trying to shut down outdoors dining."
There’s also a lot between “a few places did bad testing” and “the cases are based on false positives”. Full intensive care units don’t point to the latter.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
"we must close all schools and you can't walk outside and other random shit like trying to shut down outdoors dining."
Both schools and outdoor dining are victims of people not observing the rules. Outdoor dining isn't inherently unsafe, but it's a chance for people from different households to meet and since people are inherently social creatures, they will ignore the distance rules at some point. The last few months have provided plenty of evidence that adults cannot be trusted to consistenly observe the basic safety rules. And high school students around peers… I think we all know how that they're even less trustworthy in that regard.
I hate it too, because it reeks of authoritarian nanny state, but I understand politicians who resort to extreme measures after everything else has proven fruitless because people behave much less rational than expected.
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@PleegWat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
a new mutation of COVID surfaced in the UK last Monday. Over this weekend this has led to ramping isolating measures
I like the irony of it: the UK has seemingly been desperate for a hard Brexit for four years, and now, in the blink of an eye, they have one harder than they ever expected :)
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@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@PleegWat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
a new mutation of COVID surfaced in the UK last Monday. Over this weekend this has led to ramping isolating measures
I like the irony of it: the UK has seemingly been desperate for a hard Brexit for four years, and now, in the blink of an eye, they have one harder than they ever expected :)
If I wasn't living here, it'd be a definite
moment. As it is… zombie survival horror anyone?
Zerohedge
