WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@strangeways said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Soviet RussiaPolandThere's hardly any difference nowadays.
That's a bold statement.
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@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@strangeways said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
There's hardly any difference nowadays.
That's a bold statement.
</obvious>
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@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
tonight I reinstalled Windows on a new SSD. I had wanted to clone it but it didn't work and I was in no mood to troubleshoot my own computer so just started fresh.
I had the same thing a few months ago with my work PC. With the drive cloned I could sometimes, kinda-sorta get it working, but for the most part it failed. Reinstalling fresh worked 100% right off the bat.
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@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@strangeways said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
There's hardly any difference nowadays.
That's a bold statement.
FTFY
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
tonight I reinstalled Windows on a new SSD. I had wanted to clone it but it didn't work and I was in no mood to troubleshoot my own computer so just started fresh.
I had the same thing a few months ago with my work PC. With the drive cloned I could sometimes, kinda-sorta get it working, but for the most part it failed. Reinstalling fresh worked 100% right off the bat.
Did you remember to turn off Fast Boot and Secure Boot first?
Because those most certainly can fck you over if they're active and you change the disk under them.
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: Update 2004 is ready...
: Fucking liar.
: It really is this time.
: I will regret this. >click<
[...]
30 minutes later
: Getting things ready - 72%Yeah.
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@MrL Oh, it's actually available for me too now.
I wonder if the stuff that broke last time is fixed now...
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I wonder if the stuff that broke last time is fixed now...
I wasn't last 15 times. But let's not jump to conclusions, it's still processing here.
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
tonight I reinstalled Windows on a new SSD. I had wanted to clone it but it didn't work and I was in no mood to troubleshoot my own computer so just started fresh.
I had the same thing a few months ago with my work PC. With the drive cloned I could sometimes, kinda-sorta get it working, but for the most part it failed. Reinstalling fresh worked 100% right off the bat.
Did you remember to turn off Fast Boot and Secure Boot first?
Because those most certainly can fck you over if they're active and you change the disk under them.I'm pretty sure I have fast boot enabled on this machine, so that might explain why things went pearshaped with the clone. I don't think I have secure boot enabled, it's an Asrock H87 board that I think required you to turn it on yourself and I never did.
@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
: Update 2004 is ready...
I ended up doing a fresh install of it on the new SSD.
About the only notable change I've seen so far is that when updates are available, there's now a Shut Down\Restart and Update as well as a regular Shut Down\Restart option on the shut down menu. So that's nice.
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: Installing - 99%
: Whoa...
: Forget it, now installing .NET update.
: WTF!
: Finished installing .NET update. Back to 2004. Getting things ready - 70%. Haha. Fuck you.
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@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
: Installing - 99%
: Whoa...
: Forget it, now installing .NET update.
: WTF!
: Finished installing .NET update. Back to 2004. Getting things ready - 70%. Haha. Fuck you.I love when the 2 are going and the first says "ok, reboot now". And the 2nd is N% thru its install. (Yeah, I wait until everyone is ready!)
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Status: Logged onto an arbitrary build slave (not mine).
Seems they got auto-updated. Someone wasn't doing their job when making them....
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@Tsaukpaetra 3 is almost a goatse sighting.
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Good news everyone!
5 hours of turtle pace processing, gaining 1% every 5 minutes, or less... and finally we are stuck at 99% for 2 hours already! Success!!!
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@MrL sucker.
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@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
finally we are stuck at 99% for 2 hours already! Success!!!
How many hours until
spoiler
it decides there was an error and rolls back the whole installation?
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Shhhh! No spoilers!
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@Zerosquare Better?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So many possibilities . . . . . none of them good.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
finally we are stuck at 99% for 2 hours already! Success!!!
How many hours until
spoiler
it decides there was an error and rolls back the whole installation?I don't know! I can't get my eyes off the screen. Anticipation is excruciating!
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The bug means that Windows 10 version 2004 doesn’t record the last time an SSD was defragmented and optimized correctly.
Clickbait aside, what they mean is the drive could be defragmented on every boot, which although not good for the drive longevity, won't kill it unless it is lying on its deathbed already.
But wait. SSD defragmentation is a thing? o_O
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@Zecc even with all the goodness of SSDs, random access is still an order of magnitude slower than sequential access.
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
But wait. SSD defragmentation is a thing? o_O
SSD defragmentation is a synonym for TRIM (in this context: the same Windows utility covers both HDD and SSD "defragmentation").
I want to add that, despite the impression the article may give, the "fails to record last defrag time" problem applies to all drives, not just SSDs; Windows has no recollection when a drive was last scanned for fragmentation or how fragmented it was found to be.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
random access is still an order of magnitude slower than sequential access.
But on a SSD, with no read/write heads, no moving parts, is there really any significant difference between random and sequential access? (I don't know the answer).
According to this article SSD fragmentation is bad and SSDs must occasionally be defragged because:
there is a maximum level of fragmentation that the file system can handle. The file system's metadata keeps track of fragments and can only keep track of so many.
If that is true (again, I don't know the answer) it leads to the next question: Is it even possible to "defrag" a SSD? (in the traditional meaning of defragging)
Traditional defragging depends on writing to specific locations, (e.g., move the contents of sector 1234 to sector 5678). But the controller on a SSD intercepts writes from the OS and puts them where it wants them, for the purpose of "wear leveling".
Not a SSD expert.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
random access is still an order of magnitude slower than sequential access.
But on a SSD, with no read/write heads, no moving parts, is there really any significant difference between random and sequential access? (I don't know the answer).
There is about 3x to 10x difference depending on a particular model. At these speeds, it's barely noticeable in almost all use cases. It's like a difference between Gigabit Ethernet and 10G Ethernet.
If that is true (again, I don't know the answer) it leads to the next question: Is it even possible to "defrag" a SSD? (in the traditional meaning of defragging)
Not sure, but there's some SSD-specific maintenance procedure that Windows disk cleanup tool is aware of.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If that is true (again, I don't know the answer) it leads to the next question: Is it even possible to "defrag" a SSD? (in the traditional meaning of defragging)
Not really. What it does instead is tell the drive what parts of the drive are no longer in use so the drive can do its own maintenance.
Normally when you delete a file the OS just marks the blocks as unused in the file system and available to be overwritten later; the drive doesn't know what space is no longer in use. That's fine for most hard drives since they can overwrite any sector at any time, but flash drives need to erase space to write on it and they normally erase space in chunks larger than a file system block.
By having the OS tell the drive what parts are unused, the drive can erase any completely unused areas ahead of time and even move data around to make more space it can erase. That part's similar to hard drive defragging.
If you don't (or can't) do TRIMming the flash drive will work fine...until you've written about one full drive's worth of data. Then it has to do erasing on the fly (reading data into cache, overwriting parts of cached data with new data, erasing the underlying drive chunk, and writing the whole thing back) which is slow and can wear out your drive faster.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If that is true (again, I don't know the answer) it leads to the next question: Is it even possible to "defrag" a SSD? (in the traditional meaning of defragging)
Yes, but I don't think you have any control over it.
The Master File Table has a list of all the files and where the data of those files is on disk. That "where" is stored next to the filename and other information as a list of runs ("At file cluster 0, there are 15 clusters starting at disk cluster 1923. At file cluster 15..."). Sometime that list gets so large that there needs to be a list of runs that hold runlists. Because of how NTFS works, there can't be runlists of runlists of runlists; if an MFT record gets that large there's no way to represent additional fragments. Thus, sometimes the filesystem itself needs to be defragmented.
My understanding is that when Disk Optimizer detects that this is needed, for SSDs it can issue a special "move" command instead of the normal bulk-copy command it does with spinning rust disks, and the SSD controller just renumbers the physical piece of flash to have a new logical cluster number (the same as wear leveling would do). Disk Optimizer then does the needful in the MFT using ordinary writes.
I can see how this would cause wear and tear on whatever flash gets used for tracking wear leveling as well as the flash being used for the MFT. I don't see how it'd be so bad as to be considered "deadly".
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Normally when you delete a file the OS just marks the blocks as unused in the file system and available to be overwritten later;
Nowadays they immediately follow up the action with a
TRIM
command, which gets ignored in drives that don't support it so under normal circumstances a manual trimming isn't required anymore.
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@Watson said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Windows has no recollection when a drive was last scanned for fragmentation or how fragmented it was found to be.
Maybe you're talking about something else, but mine seems to know exactly when and how much (although "0% fragmented" seems a little suspicious)
e: scrolled up and realized that only applies to the 2004 update, which I'm not yet running.
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Not to mention, boasting about not experiencing a Windows 10 bug is a great way to trigger another one, so you'd better not to do it anyways
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I need a reboot to update a web browser
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@Mason_Wheeler it's like 2004 all over again!
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Mason_Wheeler it's like 2004 all over again!
And he's not even on 2004 yet.
Yeah yeah, I know but
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All programs evolve till they can
read maildownload random files from the internets
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
All programs evolve till they can
read maildownload random files from the internetsSomethingsomething water tight doors somethingsomething
This directive allows a local user to use the Microsoft Antimalware Service Command Line Utility (MpCmdRun.exe) to download a file from a remote location
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The good news is that Microsoft Defender will detect malicious files downloaded with MpCmdRun.exe, but it is unknown if other AV software will allow this program to bypass their detections.
This is such a nothingburger. And then you wonder why MS hates users.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And then you wonder why MS hates users.
I've always assumed it's for the usual reasons.
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@boomzilla well, this is the usual reason. Users spamming technical support with security critical bugs which turn out to be neither security nor critical nor bugs. MS has it worse, though, because instead of technical support, they go straight to the press.
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@Gąska yes. Most of them can be summarized:
Users are the absolute worst.
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Yeah. Working in IT would be so nice, if it weren't for those pesky users.
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My son's school district gave out laptops to everyone. We picked it up a couple of weeks ago. While we were there, my son logged in, then the wireless stopped working. Ok, whatever, they plugged it in and he finished whatever he needed to do to get it registered to him or whatever.
But...we get it home and the wireless doesn't work. I put in an online help request earlier this week and didn't hear anything. Called them today, somewhat drunk and started yelling at the guy. He was actually cool and we bonded.
Apparently we need to run Windows Updates. WHICH HAS BEEN RUNNING FOR FUCKING AN HOUR OR SOME SHIT. HOW GODDAMNED HARD IS IT TO FUCKING REPLACE SOME BULLSHIT DLLS WITH NEW FUCKING DLLS.
Fuck you Windows. There is no reasonable explanation for this absolute shitshow.
I hope it at least lets wireless internet work.
FUCK YOU MICROSOFT
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We'll, it's been trying to download updates, but it can't because the wireless connectivity is broken
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Called them today, somewhat drunk and started yelling at the guy. He was actually cool and we bonded.
@Polygeekery, is that you?
Filed under: insert "boomzilla alts" meme here
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Called them today, somewhat drunk and started yelling at the guy. He was actually cool and we bonded.
@Polygeekery, is that you?
Doesn't sound like fire was involved.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Called them today, somewhat drunk and started yelling at the guy. He was actually cool and we bonded.
But did you order that truck of rice?
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I hope it at least lets wireless internet work.
Happy ending (well, not that happy): wireless works now.
The tech support guy was actually pretty cool. He was pretty pissed about whichever image the schools were putting on the machines because I'm sure they'd been inundated by angry parents. I think it's some variant of 1909.
And since wireless internet for the home wasn't invented until 2020, I can understand why the 1909 build of Windows wouldn't support it already.
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I have 4 drives plugged into an external dock (USB 3.0), so I thought "Hey, maybe I'll try Windows Storage Spaces. It's essentially RAID 5 in software and it would be a lot more convenient to have all my backups on one big drive.
A short time later I have Drive H: with 29TB. Cool. I did notice that Microsoft doesn't recommend using this sort of setup because of possible "reduced performance", but, other than a server nobody has that many SATA ports, so what's the point? If I was running a server I would just use real RAID.
And besides, how bad could it be? (famous last words) So I open a command prompt window and start copying everything to my new big drive.
Running continuously for 36 hours, it has copied 3TB. Yeah . . . . I don't think so.
Oh well, back to my original setup. I can't say that they didn't warn me.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
an external dock (USB 3.0)
Yeah those are almost without exception shittastic. Especially the "multi port" ones (i.e. those that can slot more than one drive). Any appearance of functionality is merely an illusion, and I don't recommend it unless you want IDE speeds.