Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@dfdub The church and tram station would be pretty quiet now wouldn't they?
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Status: Pissed. The Florida dashboard (reporting cases, deaths, and most importantly for my case testing) has been changing their output over time. Now they've dropped the "total tests" number as well as the pending tests number. Which makes my data tracking pointless, because I need at least one of those numbers. Now they only report positive and negative...leaving out the pending and total. WHY YOU DO THIS TO ME!
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@hungrier said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dfdub The church and tram station would be pretty quiet now wouldn't they?
Depends on the current liquid level of the kerosene tanks.
Unless they shut down the bells and ban all public transportation - no, not really. The amount of actual human beings wouldn't make much difference.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
And my balcony faced a church and a busy tram station.
Immediate .
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
And my balcony faced a church and a busy tram station.
Immediate .Did I mention that there was also a kindergarten nearby?
But I was young and dumb and broke and it was kinda sorta bearable if you closed the shutters all the way. (We're IT workers - who needs sunlight anyway?) Also, I sleep like a rock now.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Depends a bit on what you'd define the "goal" of the hypothetical antagonistic virus to be. If the goal is to win "Plague, Inc.", yes it would. My point was just that I don't think this is at all the right setting for minimax.
I've read the article now and concede that I was insisting on a bit too narrow definition of what minimax is. I do agree that some policy decisions right now are based on minimizing the effect of the worst case scenario, but only for reasonably realistic worst case scenarios. Something that may not happen, but isn't exactly "win the lottery" unlikely.
Whereas my original reaction to reading the word minimax was the turn based game setting where 1) your opponent reacts to your moves (which definitely isn't a requirement for the minimax setting), and 2) you assume your opponent will take any chance they get so long as it's at least theoretically possible. I think 2) is ly speaking a requirement for applying the phrase minimax, and thus my reaction that we do not prepare for the theoretically absolutely worst but extremely unlikely cases, only for the reasonably possible worst cases. But then, that was probably an unnecessary distinction to make in this context.That being said, I disagree with some of the allusions the article makes.
It makes it sound like people not immediately changing their policy due to slight corrections of data means they are definitely using the minimax instead of the utility approach. Which is wrong, it could just as well mean that even with the updated (assumed, because uncertainty) probabilities, a utility based approach still yields the same result. I.e., roughly, changing predictions from "if we don't do this, the result will be extremely bad" to "very bad" will not result in a change of strategy.
Also, it says that using this approach might "very well" turn out to have greater costs. Which is of course possible, since we don't know the best approach, but in no way obviously likely. The measures currently taken aren't to prevent an entirely unlikely worst case, but a worst case many predict is very likely if unmitigated, just with some uncertainty to the exact extent.
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@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
(I saw a lifetime’s worth of them on holiday in East Germany in the summer of 1990. Two years later, there were a lot fewer of them already for some inexplicable reason.)
I saw one of them when visiting the former East Germany two years later — or rather, the remains of one, scattered all over the road. They did not fare well in collisions with more substantial vehicles. It seems unlikely the occupants did, either.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Some people are very social.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@admiral_p I can think of several potential causes. Like say, using int session IDs.
: "Italy's a small country with honest, working-man, population. Surely we don't have 60,000 companies. Nevermind 60,000 concurrently coming to the site?"
The rest of us:
You'd be surprised what can happen when you don't take the scale of traffic properly into account.
Why wouldn't 2 billion IDs be enough?
2 billion might. 65,535 will not. But tell me: does your compiler set int width to 32bit by default? In all this excitement, I lost track myself. So, do you feel lucky? Well? Do you, punk?
Of course, the portal in question here is unlikely to be written in C. But types like int that don't explicitly specify width cause more than one oopsie.
Not nearly as many as compressing GUID to ints to speed up handling of connections though.
But if I ever find someone used int instead of proper int32_t et.al. in my codebase, then that someone is in for a meeting with a clue ****** **** *******.
Edit: no -> not
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
(I saw a lifetime’s worth of them on holiday in East Germany in the summer of 1990. Two years later, there were a lot fewer of them already for some inexplicable reason.)
I saw one of them when visiting the former East Germany two years later — or rather, the remains of one, scattered all over the road. They did not fare well in collisions with more substantial vehicles. It seems unlikely the occupants did, either.
Fun fact: In a Trabant, the fuel tank is in the engine compartment, near the top rear. Just above the legs of the front seat passenger.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
But if I ever find someone used int instead of proper int32_t et.al. in my codebase, then that someone is in for a meeting with a clue ****** **** *******.
It's kinda annoying, but I've been finding it kinda annoying when whatever compiler Arduino is using for c++11 pedants me in error messages (i.e. "
uint32_t
(aka unsigned int)")Yes, compiler, I know what I meant, I'm not stupid if I chose the explicit keyword!
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I have several such masks and a full set of SCBAs.
What was that you were saying the other day about us not thinking you were a prepper?
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
the needles — which are made entirely of sugar and the protein pieces
"Too much sugar" thread is .
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@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
During a discussion, somebody did raise the point that even if the virus sticks around "forever", it should become less deadly over time. Milder symptoms will cause the virus to spread way more over time than very deadly runs (besides killing its host and limiting spread that way, we will be much more thorough in tracking and isolating such cases).
That fair point, until you look at the fact that the original hosting animal is bat, and the coronavirus does nothing to them.
Just imagine if the virus mutate to also capable to be spread with common kind of birds, or mosquitos, etc.
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I’ve got a feeling that all those people I hear complain about being cooped up inside all day, don’t have any hobbies they can do indoors.
Wish I could work on my hobbies... Instead I just have to work!
Same here.
We're rolling out new system to cloud next week, and during data preparation, lots of data are to be copied from on-premise server to cloud.
Compound with the fact that lots of us are using Zoom to do meetings (people at office with people work-from-home), think mean the remote desktop connection stability sucks from time to time.
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I have several such masks and a full set of SCBAs. When all this started my wife asked if we had any face masks if we needed them. I had several boxes of N95 particle masks for working in the garage and then remembered I used to have a neighbor that sold PPE and had once given me an absolute shitload of respirators. We have close to a lifetime supply of P99 and P100 filters along with an absolute shitton of 6001, 6002 and 6003 chemical cartridges.
I've been pondering getting myself a full face mask with an air pump with a filter in a backpack, for that extra post apocalyptic look. My father and I discussed it last time I was down there and he said that farmers have those nowadays.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Paging @obeselymorbid
I am certain I've seen it before even though I can't immediately tell what it's from.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
2 billion might. 65,535 will not. But tell me: does your compiler set int width to 32bit by default?
You've been talking about a web portal, not some embedded processor. Nobody outside embedded uses 16 bit stuff anymore.
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@topspin Also, if we're comparing those two numbers, it should be either 32k and 2 billion or 64k and 4 billion. (Why would one ever use signed integers for IDs, though?)
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Luhmann said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Luhmann
Oh and for those doubting: today we also surpassed the normal yearly death rate for the flu. So unless none of the more than 1000 people in intensive care roll over we have as much death by covid as by flu.Is "we" Belgium here?
I assume it is, from who the OP is.
But I think we're reaching that point in most European countries. France is getting to 5000 deaths from the virus, various estimates for the annual flu are 5000-15 000 (it's harder to get a true number for it because many deaths, in particular in older people, are not necessarily specifically diagnosed as flu or not -- 15k is the upper-bound based on "overall winter over-mortality" but that includes everything that happens in winter, not just the flu). Given the uncertainty on all numbers, I feel it's fair to say that we've reached about the same magnitude.
A widely quoted number from WHO is 60k deaths over the whole of Europe for the annual flu, a quick sum from a tab I'm keeping open gives me about 20-25k (numbers 1-3 days old depending on countries, the graph isn't updated every day and I don't really care about detailed numbers...) for the big 5 Western European countries (Spain, Italy, France, UK, Germany), so we're not quite there yet but given how things progress it seems a sure thing that we will reach that fairly soon (I mean, those 5 countries are broadly comparable in terms of population and health care, and seem to follow the same trajectory on the curves, and Italy has passed 10k, so it's a fair bet that all others will get there as well!). And that doesn't count all other countries (those 5 only account for 60% of EU's population).
So yeah, deathly rate of the flu is either already reached, or will be very soon, in Western Europe.
And all that is with those very stringent measures we're seeing, it's anyone's guess what it would be without anything more than what we do for the flu.
(and by that I mean that while it clearly wouldn't have been lower (I mean, you'll need a huge amount of to say that what we're doing is making the virus worse!!), we only have models to guess how much higher it would be... experts seem to agree on "much higher", which is all I know... in a grim way, it's possible that we may learn some of that by looking at poorer countries that don't have the ability to put truly efficients barriers to contamination, although in those ones the numbers will be harder to get, and blurred by so many other effects (such as lower overall health care!) that we might never truly know)
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@El_Heffe said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I’ve got a feeling that all those people I hear complain about being cooped up inside all day, don’t have any hobbies they can do indoors.
I think it's more a matter of going and doing things with other people. Some people are very social.
That’s what I was saying: no hobbies they can do in the comfort of their own home.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
(I saw a lifetime’s worth of them on holiday in East Germany in the summer of 1990. Two years later, there were a lot fewer of them already for some inexplicable reason.)
I saw one of them when visiting the former East Germany two years later — or rather, the remains of one, scattered all over the road. They did not fare well in collisions with more substantial vehicles. It seems unlikely the occupants did, either.
Fun fact: In a Trabant, the fuel tank is in the engine compartment, near the top rear. Just above the legs of the front seat passenger.
That’s an improvement on some of the vehicles the Germans were producing before:
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@Zecc said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I have several such masks and a full set of SCBAs.
What was that you were saying the other day about us not thinking you were a prepper?
They are leftovers from former work. I used to be certified for CSE in everything except nuclear reactors.
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@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I mean that while it clearly wouldn't have been lower (I mean, you'll need a huge amount of to say that what we're doing is making the virus worse!!), we only have models to guess how much higher it would be...
Well, 2% mortality was mentioned somewhere. So, when you get to 938k (*) deaths, all they've done was meaningless. Any more than that, and they made it somehow worse.
* = Based on 67M population, and 70% coverage for herd immunity kick-in.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
But if I ever find someone used int instead of proper int32_t et.al. in my codebase, then that someone is in for a meeting with a clue ****** **** *******.
It's kinda annoying, but I've been finding it kinda annoying when whatever compiler Arduino is using for c++11 pedants me in error messages (i.e. "
uint32_t
(aka unsigned int)")Yes, compiler, I know what I meant, I'm not stupid if I chose the explicit keyword!
Sure, but it might be helpful if the message is about
pid_t
ormode_t
or whichever other from that large pile of special-purpose defines.
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Finland Status:
Still testing some 1200 corona samples per day. Official explanation is lack of resources (both material and personnell). Universities and other laboratories have offered their help on the personnell and facilities front. They've been turned down by THL as "unnecessary".
Now it turns out that there's capacity to manufacture 100k corona testing kits per week in Turku, Finland - but they're all being shipped to China and elsewhere.So some companies pooled their money to get 38k employees from all of them tested, just so they can get on with life easier. They're airlifting the samples to South-Korea for analysis.
B*****m my life.
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Personal Corona Status:
Still at home. So far I've got:
-Headache on-and-off for the whole week
-Chest pain
-Raspy noises, presumably from thick slime, in the breathing tubes
-Fever (though barely)
-Some muscle pain
-Couldn't taste my luch beef bowl. Though I'm not sure if that's corona or just my wife's cookingAnd now it turns out my employer doesn't believe in the "stay at home if you have any symptoms" strategy. So now I have to call the healthcare provider and ask them to diagnose me. Or head back in to work. No remoting allowed (even though I've been doing just that for the whole week).
I forgot to ask for a slip when I went to see the doctor about my throat last time, so I may have to spend vacation days to cover my ass.
Oh, and the nurse who I had a phone-appointment with couldn't just diagnose me remotely, so she put in a phone appointment with a doctor. Who didn't call me yet, even though the appointment time told by the nurse was an hour ago.
Whoo...
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Let's just hope he stays at least 2m away from the window...
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A concerned citizen reported a live comedy show spotted on FaceBook LIVE, entire police squad went out to close things down:
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
does your compiler set int width to 32bit by default?
Yes.
Next question.
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Zecc said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I have several such masks and a full set of SCBAs.
What was that you were saying the other day about us not thinking you were a prepper?
They are leftovers from former work. I used to be certified for CSE in everything except nuclear reactors.
So… not a prepper but more of a hoarder of “random” shit because you don't like throwing stuff away because it might come in useful someday? I can get behind that (and recognise myself in that too).
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Zecc said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I have several such masks and a full set of SCBAs.
What was that you were saying the other day about us not thinking you were a prepper?
They are leftovers from former work. I used to be certified for CSE in everything except nuclear reactors.
So… not a prepper but more of a hoarder of “random” shit because you don't like throwing stuff away because it might come in useful someday? I can get behind that (and recognise myself in that too).
You know how it is: You'll need it some time between a week and five seconds after the garbage truck picked it up.
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@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Why would one ever use signed integers for IDs, though?
If you target JVM, that's the only way. And if you target web browsers, the only way to store integer IDs is with double-precision floating-point numbers - an effective maximum of 9 quadrillion, but overflows are going to be much more stealthy.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I forgot to ask for a slip when I went to see the doctor about my throat last time, so I may have to spend vacation days to cover my ass.
Fuck this shit. Never spend vacation days on non-vacation. Go to work if your boss wants to, but wear a face mask (to reduce risk of transmitting it to others) and a giant cardboard banner saying "ACHTUNG! I HAVE CORONAVIRUS!" (to get your boss's attention, either directly or by the rest of the office panicking around you).
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@Gąska In the middle of the largest unemployment increase since the '90s? Several unemployment co-ops are about to keel over already. And we'll see a crapton of company closures before this ends.
I'm confident in my skills in my area of expertise. But not that confident in my irreplaceability.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska In the middle of the largest unemployment increase since the '90s? Several unemployment co-ops are about to keel over already. And we'll see a crapton of company closures before this ends.
I'm confident in my skills in my area of expertise. But not that confident in my irreplaceability.
Yeah, that's a course probably better reserved for those of us living in a socialist country.
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@Gąska Besides, in the office I'm working in (and probably most Finnish companies) that'd be taken either as a joke of bad taste or a necessity of life. And everyone would keep working like normal anyway.
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@PleegWat In a socialist country, everyone is replaceable. After all, a worker is a worker is a worker. All equally capable. At least in the eyes of the government.
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@acrow okay, so plan B: calling an ambulance and playing almost-dead for five minutes. Or going to an emergency room of a nearest hospital. Or some other way to bypass the queue just to get doctor's note. It can't be that hard to pull it off, can it?
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@PleegWat In a socialist country,
everyoneno one is replaceable because of unlawful termination laws.FTFY
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@Gąska Oh, socialisms don't terminate people (except with extreme prejudice), but they can and will transfer people to ...other duties. Especially so if you work for the government; the department of Siberian Terraforming has always need for more hands. But life can be made hard enough in any company. And besides, it isn't a true socialist paradise if starting a company doesn't require at least some party ties.
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@acrow Can we please, once again, keep that political faffing-about out of the thread?
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@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
(it's harder to get a true number for it because many deaths, in particular in older people, are not necessarily specifically diagnosed as flu or not
It's kind of the same with Coronavirus isn't it? Some people who died after testing positive had other issues, so it's not certain whether Corona or one of the other things was the straw that broke the camel's back
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@Rhywden Sure. But you're going miss out on a whole bag of new jokes I thought up.
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@acrow I don't think he cares much. He's German after all
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Now it turns out that there's capacity to manufacture 100k corona testing kits per week in Turku, Finland - but they're all being shipped to China and elsewhere.
So you ship working kits to China, and they ship non-working ones to the Czech republic
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@acrow Can we please, once again, keep that political faffing-about out of the thread?
OK, I won't start about the 600k facemasks that
wereweren'twere suitable forsurgialmedicaluse. And they didn't find out until they'd been shipped to Dutch hospitals who decided to do their own triple-checking.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
So… not a prepper but more of a hoarder of “random” shit because you don't like throwing stuff away because it might come in useful someday? I can get behind that (and recognise myself in that too).
SCBAs aren't usually shared so I never sold them off. Also yes, they're pretty cool looking. Now they are useless to anyone except me because they are long since lapsed on certification.
Oddly enough I only keep some things around for sentimental reasons. For lots and lots of things I find it cathartic to dispose of clutter.