"Please uninstall our product"
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I suddenly got a pop-up on my machine, informing me that a new version of Java was available. Being a good netizen and all that, I of course decided to update immediately.
Then the installer asked me this question:
Not quite sure what to make of this... "please don't use our product"?
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@AlexMedia "Please remove old versions of our product that you're no longer using anyway, because they could be security threat vectors."
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The realisation that three billion devices run Java is finally sinking in?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in "Please uninstall our product":
@AlexMedia "Please remove
oldall versions of our product that you're no longer using anyway, because they could be security threat vectors."FTFY
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@Mason_Wheeler That's what an updater is for, right?
I clicked the "Remove" button and it did right what it says on the tin... it removed Java. Oracle's Java at least, I still got this one:
alex@MacBook-Air ~ % java --version openjdk 12.0.2 2019-07-16 OpenJDK Runtime Environment AdoptOpenJDK (build 12.0.2+10) OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM AdoptOpenJDK (build 12.0.2+10, mixed mode, sharing)update: that one's pretty out-of-date too. Fixed it.
alex@MacBook-Air ~ % java --version openjdk 13.0.2 2020-01-14 OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 13.0.2+8) OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 13.0.2+8, mixed mode, sharing)
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In Oracle's own words...
Q7: Why does the Java Auto Update recommend removing unused versions of Java?
The Java update mechanism routinely recommends removing older versions after completing an update, to keep your system clean.
Starting in January 2019, the auto update mechanism may also detect if you have not used Java on your computer for six or more months, and if so, may offer to remove rather than update Java.That clears it up
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@aitap said in "Please uninstall our product":
The realisation that three billion devices run Java is finally sinking in?
IIRC someone posted this
recently. How is it possible that it's stayed at three billion for the past 20 years?
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@hungrier Yes, it was this post.
How is it possible that it's stayed at three billion for the past 20 years?
My guess is that they never bothered to update the count.
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@aitap said in "Please uninstall our product":
@hungrier Yes, it was this post.
How is it possible that it's stayed at three billion for the past 20 years?
My guess is that they never bothered to update the count.
It just looks bad when the number of users decreases.
"2 million devices run Java!"
"wait, didn't last year it said billions?"
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Isn't that a pretty recent thing? I remember having to keep old versions around to support some piece of Enterprise crapware.
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@boomzilla said in "Please uninstall our product":
Isn't that a pretty recent thing? I remember having to keep old versions around to support some piece of Enterprise crapware.
It's recent as of two years ago I think...
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@TimeBandit said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
two years ago
That's so last decade
Gotta let the jokes right themselves!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
@aitap said in "Please uninstall our product":
@hungrier Yes, it was this post.
How is it possible that it's stayed at three billion for the past 20 years?
My guess is that they never bothered to update the count.
It just looks bad when the number of users decreases.
"2 million devices run Java!"
"wait, didn't last year it said billions?"They switched numbering systems, so now it says 2 (long) millions instead of 2 (short) billions.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
@TimeBandit said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
two years ago
That's so last decade
Gotta let the jokes right themselves!
And anyone who doesn't get it can just be left behind.
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@djls45 said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
@aitap said in "Please uninstall our product":
@hungrier Yes, it was this post.
How is it possible that it's stayed at three billion for the past 20 years?
My guess is that they never bothered to update the count.
It just looks bad when the number of users decreases.
"2 million devices run Java!"
"wait, didn't last year it said billions?"They switched numbering systems, so now it says 2 (long) millions instead of 2 (short) billions.
Just show the device count in Big Endian, so the most significant digits are at the end.
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@djls45 said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
@aitap said in "Please uninstall our product":
@hungrier Yes, it was this post.
How is it possible that it's stayed at three billion for the past 20 years?
My guess is that they never bothered to update the count.
It just looks bad when the number of users decreases.
"2 million devices run Java!"
"wait, didn't last year it said billions?"They switched numbering systems, so now it says 2 (long) millions instead of 2 (short) billions.
A long million is a short million. A short billion is a long milliard.
Yes, I know.
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@AlexMedia said in "Please uninstall our product":
Not quite sure what to make of this... "please don't use our product"?
Not so much that as "You're not using our product. It's probably a good idea to remove it." Normally, I'm sure they'd prefer it if you did use their product rather than someone else's, but what they're saying is more what I said than what you said.
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@boomzilla said in "Please uninstall our product":
I remember having to keep old versions around to support some piece of Enterprise crapware.
Oracle have the solution!
Do I need older versions of Java?
The latest available version is compatible with the older versions. However, some Java applications (or applets) can indicate that they are dependent on a particular version, and may not run if you do not have that version installed. If an application or web page you access requires an older version of Java, you should report this to the provider/developer and request that they update the application to be compatible with all Java versions.Well, shit, I wonder why no-one ever thought of that.
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@loopback0 said in "Please uninstall our product":
@boomzilla said in "Please uninstall our product":
I remember having to keep old versions around to support some piece of Enterprise crapware.
Oracle have the solution!
Do I need older versions of Java?
The latest available version is compatible with the older versions. However, some Java applications (or applets) can indicate that they are dependent on a particular version, and may not run if you do not have that version installed. If an application or web page you access requires an older version of Java, you should report this to the provider/developer and request that they update the application to be compatible with all Java versions.Well, shit, I wonder why no-one ever thought of that.
Who do you think will be blamed when someone's computer gets infected by malware through a security hole in an old version of java?
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@PleegWat said in "Please uninstall our product":
Who do you think will be blamed when someone's computer gets infected by malware through a security hole in an old version of java?
Microsoft.
Because obviously Windows Update should have taken care of it.
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@PleegWat said in "Please uninstall our product":
Who do you think will be blamed when someone's computer gets infected by malware through a security hole in an old version of java?
Joe from IT who retired last year.
(Also, it all depends on whether you have Java set to run applets in your browser. If you have, that's a huge potential attack vector as parts of the web are insanely hostile. If not and Java is just a normal applications language, lang-level security holes are typically minor. Particular broken libraries are more of an issue, but then they always were and in all languages so no change there...)
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@loopback0 said in "Please uninstall our product":
@boomzilla said in "Please uninstall our product":
I remember having to keep old versions around to support some piece of Enterprise crapware.
Oracle have the solution!
Do I need older versions of Java?
The latest available version is compatible with the older versions. However, some Java applications (or applets) can indicate that they are dependent on a particular version, and may not run if you do not have that version installed. If an application or web page you access requires an older version of Java, you should report this to the provider/developer and request that they update the application to be compatible with all Java versions.Well, shit, I wonder why no-one ever thought of that.
Write once, run
anywhereon my machine.
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@levicki said in "Please uninstall our product":
install JRE because that now requires having Oracle Account.
You should be installing some other build like the
@AlexMedia said in "Please uninstall our product":
% java --version openjdk 13.0.2 2020-01-14 OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 13.0.2+8) OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 13.0.2+8, mixed mode, sharing)mentioned above due to the changes in Oracle licensing policy anyway. We've recently been told to uninstall Oracle Java builds and
installactive directory installedthisAdoptÂą one instead (active directory didn't uninstall because a couple of
projects still need it, probably).Âą Edit: I failed to notice that the 12 one in the quote was an Adopt one, but the 13 one is not. We installed the Adopt one (on Windows; Linuxen generally use the distribution-provided OpenJDK)
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@levicki said in "Please uninstall our product":
@dkf said in "Please uninstall our product":
Joe from IT who retired last year.
Joe owes me a beer.
Joking aside, the situation (at least in our use case which is banking and e-tax signing applets in finance department only) has drastically improved -- most banks either switched away from Java applets running in browser to HTML/JS only, or they provide setup.exe which installs Java application which needs to run on the computer and which requires the latest JRE version or it refuses to run.
The only remaining problem is that they should be distributing the JRE with their app, not expecting users to install JRE because that now requires having Oracle Account.
The JRE isn't even shipped as its own product any more. You either have to install the JDK to get it or use the JDK's
jlinkprogram to create your own JRE distribution for your app.
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@powerlord @levicki
I just checked java.com in a private window and they definitely offer the JRE without any account or anything. At least the Windows x64 version; I assume whatever other OS would get its own corresponding version.
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@hungrier said in "Please uninstall our product":
@powerlord @levicki
I just checked java.com in a private window and they definitely offer the JRE without any account or anything. At least the Windows x64 version; I assume whatever other OS would get its own corresponding version.
The Java 8 JRE is there, but Java 13 is the current version.
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@powerlord OIC. All my recent Java work has been for enterprisey clients for whom 8 is the latest and greatest
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@powerlord said in "Please uninstall our product":
@hungrier said in "Please uninstall our product":
@powerlord @levicki
I just checked java.com in a private window and they definitely offer the JRE without any account or anything. At least the Windows x64 version; I assume whatever other OS would get its own corresponding version.
The Java 8 JRE is there, but Java 13 is the current version.
Java 8 is still a current LTS version, along with 11.
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@hungrier said in "Please uninstall our product":
@powerlord OIC. All my recent Java work has been for enterprisey clients for whom 8 is the latest and greatest
Yeah, Java 8 is LTS so it's basically brand new if you're Enterprisey.
(My team still looks after an application running on a combination of Java 4, 6 and 7 on the servers and 8 on the client)
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@loopback0 said in "Please uninstall our product":
My team still looks after an application running on a combination of Java 4, 6 and 7 on the servers and 8 on the client
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@TimeBandit Totally. There's more
s involved but it's a long story and 
.
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@levicki I did, and it doesn't. After clicking the "Agree and Start Free Download" button it just starts downloading the exe
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@levicki No, I'm talking about the thing I said. Java.com -> Java Download, to get the JRE by itself
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@levicki said in "Please uninstall our product":
@hungrier said in "Please uninstall our product":
@levicki No, I'm talking about the thing I said. Java.com -> Java Download, to get the JRE by itself
For fuck sake... then why is Google not indexing that page higher than the other one?
E_NOREPRO
Clicking the first result leads me to Java.com:
Google just hates you I guess.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
Google just hates you I guess.
Unless I guess you're searching "Java JRE"///
In which the first result leads to:
Which means you're a programmer and need to suck Oracle's dick to get access to then.
But the second result is what you really want anyways.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
need to suck Oracle's dick
Here, I'll do the needful and revert back when possible.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
Which means you're a programmer and need to suck Oracle's dick to get access to then.
Or you use the OpenJDK and ignore the commercial addons. Most of which you really don't need for dev work. I once looked through a list of what those were, and almost all were "I guess that's OK but why would you want that?" tier stuff. (The standout counterexamples were to do with redistributing precompilations, but I don't actually need that; the code is going to beat Python on performance and saturate the network whatever.)
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@dkf said in "Please uninstall our product":
Or you use the OpenJDK and ignore the commercial addons.
Well, sure, but Oracle certainly doesn't want you to do that, now do they?
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@Tsaukpaetra Their actions clearly suggest they definitely do.
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@Bulb said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra Their actions clearly suggest they definitely do.
Obviously not, otherwise it would be quite difficult to get to the page requiring a login to download the free download.
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@Bulb said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra Their actions clearly suggest they definitely do.
No, what they want you to do is get the "free" (in some use cases only) version, thinking that it's actually free, then audit you and demand $1TRILLION in retro-active license fees and fines.
AKA standard Oracle MO.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
Java + ME!
George of the jungle java.flv – 00:24
— Donna Maukonen
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
Here, I'll do the needful and revert back when possible.
Their response:
I'm unable to comprehend the meaning of this. See, I can download required software without a login from the officially-sanctioned java.com , but if I'm on oracle.com, That's Different™?
Is there actually a difference between the packages available under a login versus not?
I'm flabbergasted.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
I'm unable to comprehend the meaning of this.
Whatever drone checked your issue didn't understand it.
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Going to Oracle.com:
Download Java 8 or Java 11: Account required.
Download Java 13: No account required.
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@Atazhaia said in "Please uninstall our product":
Going to Oracle.com:
Download Java 8 or Java 11: Account required.
Download Java 13: No account required.The idea is that the latest and greatest is free, but the older versions require a license. There is some exception about Java 8 still being free for non-commercial use, but better have your lawyer read the fine print to learn what "commercial use" is exactly.
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@Atazhaia reasoning must be that lts means it's probably for a company or similar.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
Here, I'll do the needful and revert back when possible.
Their response:
I'm unable to comprehend the meaning of this. See, I can download required software without a login from the officially-sanctioned java.com , but if I'm on oracle.com, That's Different™?
Is there actually a difference between the packages available under a login versus not?
I'm flabbergasted.
You didn't explain it all that well, IMHO.
Also, I'm surprised it didn't end up as "CLOSED FIXED - Java.com now also requires a login".
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@Tsaukpaetra said in "Please uninstall our product":
I'm unable to comprehend the meaning of this. See, I can download required software without a login from the officially-sanctioned java.com , but if I'm on oracle.com, That's Different™?
Is there actually a difference between the packages available under a login versus not?
I see no Oracle here...
I see no logins needed here...
I do see confusion, but that's normal. Hello confusion!Ssay hi to Inexplicable Terror for me will you? I miss that guy. Great times.... great times......
