WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@Tsaukpaetra Originally they banned it because fuck you, that's why. The past decade or so they've allowed you to customize it freely.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I really don't see how this is better?
Rather than some stuff being hidden behind tabs it's hidden in menus.
It's in menus that actually make sense. Things that are related to editing (cut, copy, paste, find, replace, etc) are in a menu called . . . . Ta Da! . . . . Edit
Amazing, huh?
In the stupid fucking ribbon they are in a menu called . . . . . something else . . . . that has absolutely nothing to do with editing.
You still need to know what something is called to find it, you still need to know which menu it's in.
There are only 7 menus. It doesn't take long to find what you want, especially since things are organized into menus that actually make sense.
Almost nothing that's an icon has a label.
Most of the icons are standard things that have been used in every Windows-based program since forever. Unless you've literally never used a computer before, you already know what 90% of them are. If you aren't sure, just put your pointer over it and a label appears.
The number one justification for the stupid fucking ribbon is that the menus were becoming too big. But that's Microsoft's fault for adding too much unnecessary crap. Something that is proven by the fact that I can still use Office 2003 today and never once encounter a situation where I'm not able to do exactly what I need.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The number one justification for the stupid fucking ribbon is that the menus were becoming too big. But that's Microsoft's fault for adding too much unnecessary crap. Something that is proven by the fact that I can still use Office 2003 today and never once encounter a situation where I'm not able to do exactly what I need.
The best thing about the ribbon in Word was that it made the style system much more accessible. It had been around for ages, but was hidden behind a fairly nasty UI (with weird focus change issues). As someone who learned to think in terms of styles (LaTeΧ will do that to you) this was a distinct improvement, and far far better than the stupid shit that most people did (and still do) with just formatting every paragraph by hand (and fuck you, consistency!) Thirs was something that MS got really right.
But not everything is great. Excel's ribbon has a wonderful habit of hiding the things I use often unless I run it full screen on a large display while filling the space up with irrelevant shit like WordArt. (Seriously, why would I ever want that in a spreadsheet? The main place it makes sense is in a presentation or poster, and Excel simply isn't the right tool for those.) It is very frustrating to be wondering where the control for a function I was using earlier on the same sheet is, only to realise it has vanished because you've undocked the laptop so you can go to a (low-value, mandatory-attendance) meeting.
I don't use Office much these days. The team I'm on prefers Google's much simpler offering. (Also, they still haven't unfucked our Active Directory deployment at work enough to let staff use Office 365. Good jorb, guize! ) Google's offering is only really much better at one thing, and that's letting many people edit the same document at once; everything else is shittier but that one killer feature is worth it to us as we do a lot of collaborative editing (including across organizations without existing deep trust relationships; writing funding proposals is like that in this day and age).
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
writing funding proposals
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
writing funding proposals
Fortunately, I've not needed to do much of that recently. Mega-projects FTW!
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Is there something special about the ribbon that prevents you from developing muscle memory for it that doesn't apply to any other menu or toolbar?
The desinstallation of Defender probably
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The number one justification for the stupid fucking ribbon is that the menus were becoming too big. But that's Microsoft's fault for adding too much unnecessary crap. Something that is proven by the fact that I can still use Office 2003 today and never once encounter a situation where I'm not able to do exactly what I need.
Someone from MS once said that everyone uses only a small subset of Word's features, but the subset is different for everyone. They also said there are features they'd like to remove (because they're clunky and rarely used), but they can't since some of their major business customers depend on them.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
They also said there are features they'd like to remove
Does anyone remember this screen?
Good times. Able to turn on/off features and functionalities according to need.
Wonder what happened to that?
Wonder why they moved away from a modular installation...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Good times.
Wonder what happened to that?Streamlined rich web experiences for mobile-first cloud-first world.
Office ain't got no Groove no more
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Office ain't got no Groove no more
It got sucked up into OneDrive
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@Luhmann said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Office ain't got no Groove no more
It got sucked up into OneDrive
Your Office features are right where you left them.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska Obviously you're the yardstick by which they should go.
I tried to be as objective as possible (you'd know that if you bothered to read it). Seriously though - who would ever want to automatically insert Wikipedia snippet into their document? If you'd want to do it, you'd probably want a specific sentence or two, and format them in the same way you format all other quotes, which is basically guaranteed to not match Microsoft's school of thought.
I take it you haven't actually tried what the button does?
Why would I? There's no way it's not absolutely useless to me, even if I want to copy and paste Wikipedia. And I'd rather avoid clicking unknown buttons unnecessarily in this day and age.
Compare to page break button, which is used in every multichapter document. And IIRC, it used to be a large button in Office 2007. I liked it that way.
It still is.
Which version? Because it's definitely not on 365 or whatever it is that I have currently installed.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I really don't see how this is better?
Rather than some stuff being hidden behind tabs it's hidden in menus.
It's in menus that actually make sense. Things that are related to editing (cut, copy, paste, find, replace, etc) are in a menu called . . . . Ta Da! . . . . Edit
Amazing, huh?
In the stupid fucking ribbon they are in a menu called . . . . . something else . . . . that has absolutely nothing to do with editing.
What. Copy&Paste are residing in a tab called "Clipboard", Find/Replace/Highlight are in a tab called... "Editing".
Are you guys sure that you're actually using a program called "Word"?
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@Rhywden Maybe they brought it back for A/B testing?
Office 2016 here:
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@Tsaukpaetra Maybe. But the guys whining about how there are tons of buttons they never use...
... maybe they should have a look at this?
Then again, they'll probably plead instead of doing something.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra Maybe. But the guys whining about how there are tons of buttons they never use...
... maybe they should have a look at this?
Just to be clear - I've only talked about it because it was already mentioned. They don't bother me enough to want to remove them. Actually, I'd probably dislike missing these buttons - for purely aesthetic reasons. They're like a desktop wallpaper to me; it would feel wrong not to have one. I'm weird like that.
Edit: also, since over the years I've grown so reliant on googling random tutorials, I always try to keep as much as possible on default settings, to avoid a situation where the tutorial assumes something is enabled/disabled and I have to figure out where the difference is exactly before the tutorial starts making sense.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra Maybe. But the guys whining about how there are tons of buttons they never use...
... maybe they should have a look at this?
Then again, they'll probably plead instead of doing something.
Great suggestion. Let's get to it.
Ok, half way there. Where's the option to turn on old menus?
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@MrL in the Clippy Bar! Just tell it what you want to do.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Edit: also, since over the years I've grown so reliant on googling random tutorials, I always try to keep as much as possible on default settings, to avoid a situation where the tutorial assumes something is enabled/disabled and I have to figure out where the difference is exactly before the tutorial starts making sense.
Reminds me of a business-domain large software that we were intensively using some years ago. There was an "expert" mode that showed all commands (as opposed to the default mode that only showed a seemingly random subset of commands, because this being a domain-specific B2B software the UI was crap and no one ever did any usability study to find out what the actual basic/expert commands were, so it seemed random).
So every time we had a new hire, at some point he complained that he couldn't find an option and everyone grew more and more confused and angry with back and forths of:
clickfoo
I don't seefoo
it's just belowbar
!
There is nothing belowbar
, it's the end of the menu!
How can you not see it, it's right there!!!
Well it is not, come and see by yourself!
... uh...And then someone remembered about that "expert" mode, turned it on and since that setting was saved forever, forgot it even existed (since they were still in the early learning phase) until the next new hire came along.
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FWIW I've got the big page break buttons, and separate buttons for Pictures and Online Pictires
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
letting many people edit the same document at once
Works in office too
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@remi said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And then someone remembered about that "expert" mode, turned it on and since that setting was saved forever, forgot it even existed (since they were still in the early learning phase) until the next new hire came along.
I'm so glad $currentCompany actually maintains onboarding pages (Confluence) and keeps them updated!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Maybe they brought it back for A/B testing?
Office 2016 here:Is this based on how wide the window is?
Office 2016 Mac also has it as large buttons if the window is wide enough. Make the window smaller, and they turn into 3 smaller buttons in a column just like your screenshot.
Office 365 Mac has the same behaviour.
"3px" narrower.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I really don't see how this is better?
Rather than some stuff being hidden behind tabs it's hidden in menus.
It's in menus that actually make sense. Things that are related to editing (cut, copy, paste, find, replace, etc) are in a menu called . . . . Ta Da! . . . . Edit
Amazing, huh?
In the stupid fucking ribbon they are in a menu called . . . . . something else . . . . that has absolutely nothing to do with editing.
What. Copy&Paste are residing in a tab called "Clipboard", Find/Replace/Highlight are in a tab called... "Editing".
Copy, Paste, Find, Replace are all editing functions. In Word 2003 they are all in the Edit menu, where they belong. It make no sense to split them into two different menus.
Are you guys sure that you're actually using a program called "Word"?
I don't have the latest copy of Office, so I made the (apparently incorrect) assumption that The Stupid Fucking Ribbon® is the same in all programs. I guess I should have known better than to think that Microsoft would do anything consistently.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I should have known better than to think that Microsoft would do anything consistently.
They seem to fuck WU pretty consistently
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I really don't see how this is better?
Rather than some stuff being hidden behind tabs it's hidden in menus.
It's in menus that actually make sense. Things that are related to editing (cut, copy, paste, find, replace, etc) are in a menu called . . . . Ta Da! . . . . Edit
Amazing, huh?
In the stupid fucking ribbon they are in a menu called . . . . . something else . . . . that has absolutely nothing to do with editing.
What. Copy&Paste are residing in a tab called "Clipboard", Find/Replace/Highlight are in a tab called... "Editing".
Copy, Paste, Find, Replace are all editing functions. In Word 2003 they are all in the Edit menu, where they belong. It make no sense to split them into two different menus.
Why? Cut/Copy/Paste are all Clipboard actions. Especially considering that the Paste function now has several modes besides the default one. Exactly why does that not make sense? Not seeing the big Wharrgarbl here.
Are you guys sure that you're actually using a program called "Word"?
I don't have the latest copy of Office, so I made the (apparently incorrect) assumption that The Stupid Fucking Ribbon® is the same in all programs. I guess I should have known better than to think that Microsoft would do anything consistently.
Things change. Deal with it.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Things change.
Not always for the better
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Things change.
Not always for the better
I didn't state the contrary. But I'd label this a neutral change at the least - putting it under Clipboard actions makes sense. Because that's what they are.
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The message here is that any version of Office Mac after 2011 is the perfect version of Office because it has both the ribbon and the menus.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What. Copy&Paste are residing in a tab called "Clipboard", Find/Replace/Highlight are in a tab called... "Editing".
Copy, Paste, Find, Replace are all editing functions. In Word 2003 they are all in the Edit menu, where they belong. It make no sense to split them into two different menus.
Why? Cut/Copy/Paste are all Clipboard actions. Especially considering that the Paste function now has several modes besides the default one. Exactly why does that not make sense? Not seeing the big Wharrgarbl here.
Is Clipboard actually a tab, or is it just a section on the Home tab like Editing also is?
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@loopback0 It's a section on the Home tab. Editing is on the same tab.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I should have known better than to think that Microsoft would do anything consistently.
They seem to fuck WU pretty consistently
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 It's a section on the Home tab.
Right then the argument is because it makes no sense to split them into different menus and they're also not split into different menus.
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@El_Heffe Forced update is good ™
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Copy, Paste, <snip> are all editing functions.
Well no, they're actually clipboard related.
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Find, Replace are all editing functions
Those ones are
They're in tabs that actually make more sense. No God went forth one day and decreed that copy and paste are editing functions and not clipboard functions.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Another fail by Microsoft
Your autopilot is right where you left it.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
[Link to techradar.com]
In other news, screw autoplaying videos underneath a cookie consent popup.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
"Copy, Paste, <snip> are all editing functions."Well no, they're actually clipboard related.
This is where @blakeyrat would step in and yell at you about how that's an implementation detail. I'm not him, so I won't, but I don't understand how people can say that these clipboard things are not editing functions.
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@boomzilla the whole ribbon discussion is one of the areas he was mostly right about.
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@topspin Personally, I'm mostly confused by the ribbon when I have to use it. Mostly because I use MS Office so rarely. Luckily for me, LibreOffice still uses menus. How useful the two things are probably depends a lot on how you think. Like...I converted my gmail buttons back to text away from icons because I prefer text.
A lot of the ribbon discussion (especially a lot of the stuff blakey talked about) wasn't really about ribbons vs menus but ribbons vs toolbars.
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https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-now-prevents-local-account-creation/
Apologies if this had already been posted but I just ran into this and my need to rant prevents me from checking.
If you’d prefer not to have a Microsoft account associated with your device, you can remove it. Finish going through Windows setup, then select the Start button and go to Settings > Accounts > Your info and select Sign in with a local account instead
Fuck you Microsoft.
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@Deadfast said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-now-prevents-local-account-creation/
Apologies if this had already been posted but I just ran into this and my need to rant prevents me from checking.
If you’d prefer not to have a Microsoft account associated with your device, you can remove it. Finish going through Windows setup, then select the Start button and go to Settings > Accounts > Your info and select Sign in with a local account instead
Fuck you Microsoft.
I wont install windows again then it seems.
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@levicki Someone clearly got his panties in a twist this morning.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@levicki Someone clearly got his panties in a twist this morning.
That's preferred to having them in one's mouth.
Obviously you're in a position where you are able to directly compare the two?
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@levicki Someone clearly got his panties in a twist this morning.
That's preferred to having them in one's mouth.
I can think of situations in which that might not be true, but @error would know more about those sorts of situations than I do.
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I'm reading a document on a client's Sharepoint in Word Online. It's got a flowchart that I can barely read, so I try zooming in. Browser zoom is no good, it makes everything in the document (including the text) blurry, as if the entire document is rendered as an image or something. So back out of that. I noticed there's a 100% thing in the corner of the window, and indeed that is a zoom feature, seemingly native to Word Online. But guess what, it has the exact same problem: The zoomed in view just blows up the pixels from the document rendered at 100%, text still has Cleartype pixels blown up, etc.
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@hungrier All is not lost! Turning on "Accessibility mode" initially crashed the Word Online webapp but after it figured itself out I got a working zoom that at least scales the text before rendering.
The flowchart is still barely legible, though. Oh well.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Turning on "Accessibility mode" initially crashed the Word Online webapp
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden @sloosecannon You two are retards.
Cut/Copy/Paste are EDITING functions.
Clipboard is just a means to accomplish those tasks.
Putting Cut/Copy/Paste in Clipboard menu has as mucb sense as putting Reading Glasses under Books.There is no clipboard menu. They're all on the same tab, it's just they're grouped together on it becuse they all relate to the clipboard.
I'm not saying that they aren't editing functions (they are) but if you looked at those 4 icons and only those 4 icons and wanted to group them then clipboard is a logical grouping as they're all clipboard related.
Yet again Office Mac is clearly the best version as it just puts them next to each other and doesn't bother with such controversial labels.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What, are they going to group Save/Load/Delete under Disk now?
No, it's already under File, duh.