Perl Guru
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Kind of minor, but I thought it was amusing. It's been this way for about a year.
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If your site is broken and nobody has bothered to notify you about it, does it make a sound?
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@_P_ Yes. Yes it does.
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@jinpa A dead site for a mostly dead language?
Filed under: Maybe they couldn't tell which part of the line noise had the actual error
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@powerlord I'm still churning out Perl code, so I guess it just has found its niche. Which is maintenance of existing Perl projects, but that also means that you grow new libraries and tools around it as needed.
But when I need to start something new, I choose Python over Perl. Invariably.
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@powerlord I'm still churning out Perl code, so I guess it just has found its niche. Which is maintenance of existing Perl projects, but that also means that you grow new libraries and tools around it as needed.
But when I need to start something new, I choose Python over Perl. Invariably.
Every language has its niche. It's just that Perl's niche was consumed by other, better languages in the last 20 years.
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@powerlord What are better languages for line noise?
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Minified Javascript?
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@Zerosquare said in Perl Guru:
Minified Javascript?
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.Line noise.
Edit: If not Brainfuck, then Intercal would also be a good choice.
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@_P_ Yes. Yes it does.
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@powerlord said in Perl Guru:
@powerlord I'm still churning out Perl code, so I guess it just has found its niche. Which is maintenance of existing Perl projects, but that also means that you grow new libraries and tools around it as needed.
But when I need to start something new, I choose Python over Perl. Invariably.
Every language has its niche.
Haskell.
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@powerlord said in Perl Guru:
@powerlord I'm still churning out Perl code, so I guess it just has found its niche. Which is maintenance of existing Perl projects, but that also means that you grow new libraries and tools around it as needed.
But when I need to start something new, I choose Python over Perl. Invariably.
Every language has its niche.
Haskell.
It's niche must be "Feeling smug" (or was that Common Lisp?).
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@JBert Lisp remains an influential language in "key algorithmic techniques such as recursion and condescension".
-- Verity Stob
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@powerlord said in Perl Guru:
@powerlord I'm still churning out Perl code, so I guess it just has found its niche. Which is maintenance of existing Perl projects, but that also means that you grow new libraries and tools around it as needed.
But when I need to start something new, I choose Python over Perl. Invariably.
Every language has its niche.
Haskell.
It's niche must be "Feeling smug" (or was that Common Lisp?).
It’s mainly used for talking about cricket.
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@powerlord said in Perl Guru:
@powerlord I'm still churning out Perl code, so I guess it just has found its niche. Which is maintenance of existing Perl projects, but that also means that you grow new libraries and tools around it as needed.
But when I need to start something new, I choose Python over Perl. Invariably.
Every language has its niche.
Haskell.
It's niche must be "Feeling smug" (or was that Common Lisp?).
It’s mainly used for talking about cricket.
How do you mean? Cricket doesn't even have monads.
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@Zerosquare said in Perl Guru:
Minified Javascript?
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.Is there an existing JS obfuscator that turns it into Brainfuck (with some extensions), which is then fed to an interpreter? If not, I have an idea for my next project.
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@Zerosquare said in Perl Guru:
Minified Javascript?
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.Is there an existing JS obfuscator that turns it into Brainfuck (with some extensions), which is then fed to an interpreter? If not, I have an idea for my next project.
if you do write such an interpreter..... do the the fine folks at the esolang wiki know. they'll be most interested in it...... well in abusing it..... but still, it'll be exposure, and that's good yes? According to the magazine editor i used to be friends with it's worth more than money. (coincidentally, we were no longer friends shortly after that remark when they, in all seriousness, attempted to pay me for a short editorial i wrote as a favor, using exposure. Good news though, the hand shaped bruise on their face didn't turn out to be permanent and they declined to press charges!)
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@Vixen Ah, yes, paying with exposure sure pays those bills. On a related note, I fucking hate influencers who try to get free shit and/or special treatment by threatening with negative exposure. Although one swedish influencer had that backfire massively on her recently.
- Goes to nice restaurant for brunch.
- Demands getting scrambled eggs even though it's not on the menu.
- Proceeds to write an angry blog post of the appalling service and how they should have made scrambled eggs just for her, as they had omelettes and both are made from eggs, so they had the ingredients to make it.
- In the angry blog post includes instructions for how to make scrambled eggs to show how easy it is, but gets it wrong.
- Gets reminded that she just the other day she had made a blog post about how much she loves omelettes, so why were they not acceptable this time.
- The story blows up and she gets ridiculed by pretty much everyone.
- Writes another blog post saying that "it was just a joke" and "you should totally go eat there because their food is amazing".
And influencers wonder why they get so much hate...
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And influencers wonder why they get so much hate...
The word alone makes me hate them. Well, the concept of it, anyways.
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@Zerosquare said in Perl Guru:
Minified Javascript?
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.Is there an existing JS obfuscator that turns it into Brainfuck (with some extensions), which is then fed to an interpreter? If not, I have an idea for my next project.
Not exactly what you're looking for but Perl has Acme::Bleach
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Is there an existing JS obfuscator that turns it into Brainfuck (with some extensions), which is then fed to an interpreter? If not, I have an idea for my next project.
There is this, and it doesn't need an interpreter beyond eval().
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@topspin before that, the term was “thought leader”. But then it turned out there’s not much thought.
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I wrote a JS encode function once that converted to binary, then replaced the 0s and 1s with two different zero-width characters. The decode function ignored all printable characters. The encoded text was invisible.
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@sebastian-galczynski @dfdub
Paging @Yamikuronue...
Bidding on Security
Let's talk about Javascript. Like just about every modern language, Javascript is based on C-syntax. That means when you look at a piece of Javascript, it should look pretty familiar: braces to denote block scope, semicolons to terminate lines, square brackets for arrays and dot notation for...
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@Dragoon Or you could just use
awk, the sane subset of Perl, for these cases.
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@dfdub Perl is what you get when Awk, C and Unix Shell have a threesome...
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@Zerosquare said in Perl Guru:
Minified Javascript?
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.Is there an existing JS obfuscator that turns it into Brainfuck (with some extensions), which is then fed to an interpreter? If not, I have an idea for my next project.
if you do write such an interpreter..... do the the fine folks at the esolang wiki know. they'll be most interested in it...... well in abusing it..... but still, it'll be exposure, and that's good yes?
This line made me think of another conversation on these forums, so I went looking, and I found it.
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/24876/the-rise-and-fall-of-channel-awesome/5
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@Dragoon Or you could just use
awk, the sane subset of Perl, for these cases.
What's sane about the lack of (portable) basics like tolower(), zero modularization and nothing but the most basic Unicode support (also non-portable)?
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What's sane about [...]
Compared to Perl, almost everything is sane.
zero modularization and nothing but the most basic Unicode support
How often do you need that in Shell one-liners?
I've never said I'd use
awkfor complicated text processing, but advocating the use of Perl for one-liners - especially since, unlikeawk, it usually isn't already installed - is just weird.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Perl Guru:
@Zerosquare said in Perl Guru:
Minified Javascript?
++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.Is there an existing JS obfuscator that turns it into Brainfuck (with some extensions), which is then fed to an interpreter? If not, I have an idea for my next project.
if you do write such an interpreter..... do the the fine folks at the esolang wiki know. they'll be most interested in it...... well in abusing it..... but still, it'll be exposure, and that's good yes?
This line made me think of another conversation on these forums, so I went looking, and I found it.
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/24876/the-rise-and-fall-of-channel-awesome/5
yeah.... that is more or less what i was thinking.
still if you're doing a thing for fun, then exposure is okay pay for it. After all you did it for fun, right? if you wanted money it wouldn't be for fun.
don't get me wrong, getting paid for doing what you think is fun is better than exposure.... a lot better... but still.
getting paid in exposure for doing a job? yeah no I'm the sausage vendor there. I no get money, you no get my work.
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What's sane about [...]
Compared to Perl, almost everything is sane.
Why? Especially for text processing you'd be hard pressed to find a language with better Unicode support. As long as you don't try to write a video encoder with it …
zero modularization and nothing but the most basic Unicode support
How often do you need that in Shell one-liners?
Whenever I don't want shit to blow up just because one of my users is from Czechia or, Buddha forbid, China.
I've never said I'd use
awkfor complicated text processing, but advocating the use of Perl for one-liners - especially since, unlikeawk, it usually isn't already installed - is just weird.It doesn't have to be complicated but I'd very much like it to be robust.
Sure, some of the examples in the article are just silly when you know about tools liketac, but then so would writing them in awk.
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As long as you don't try to write a video encoder with it …
I might have done that once in school, just to see if I could. You can, though performance is not something that I would equate with it.
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As long as you don't try to write a video encoder with it …
I might have done that once in school, just to see if I could. You can, though performance is not something that I would equate with it.Sure, there's always the "why does the dog lick his balls?" category. I've spent way more time than I should have with a raytracer written in Commodore BASIC.
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I think we need a "the most absurd thing you've ever coded/built" thread if there isn't one already.
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influencer
I thought the correct spelling for that disease is "influenza".
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You mean influencers are contagious?
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@Zerosquare From a certain perspective, at least, isn't that literally the entire point of them existing?
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Perl was the first language I ever wrote something in for money. I got paid $50 to make a one-liner that parsed a CSV and calculated some standard deviations. I got acknowledged in someone's senior Linguistics thesis for that.
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@Dragoon The thing irking me in Perl developers the most is the inclination to play golf with the length of their programs and their autistic exultation over how cute and clever the sigil sequences you put into a one-liner are.
But they are neither clever nor cute. Unless you live and breathe Perl, and have no life whatsoever, they are tedious. To marvel over the beauty of those one-liners, I'd have to reach for the documentation, otherwise I can't remember what goes to command line and what into the program, and how the intricate intertwining of the context makes those sigils sing, or whatever shit they do. Larry Wall is a linguist, and the worst graphomaniacs of his circles tend to write poetry which can only be appreciated by other linguists with five decades or more in the field.
My Perl code tends to resemble Java in how I try to make everything spelled out. I hate the love of implicit in Perl which they then break in the next release.
No, Perl is not the ultimate text processing tool. I can write a Python script which will do the same but better, in which I can manipulate regexes as if they themselves are (gasp!) strings and not an opaque sublanguage, which gets Unicode right and frees me from the bullshit of "in which mode now is that string?". I'll be done before the Perl lover strings together his sigils. And if I go drink myself incoherent, and a bus runs over me and I have a surgery, when I get back home, I'll be still able to tell instantly what my script is doing and how, without resorting to a cipherbook.
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@Dragoon The thing irking me in Perl developers the most is the inclination to play golf with the length of their programs and their autistic exultation over how cute and clever the sigil sequences you put into a one-liner are.
Coincidentally, there's a big overlap between Perl coders and C coders.
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@Gąska I don't remember that there was this urge in C programmers to do cute tricks so their programs look more interesting. C has just arcane corners of its own, and you basically stuff your program with pragmas and __attributes until the compiler does what you think it should have been doing all along. Even the most proficient C programmers will agree that the end result looks like an eldtritch abomination, but sigh, such is life.
Or am I wrong and there are people who actually drool over little preprocessor tricks in serious programs?
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I got paid $50 to make a one-liner that parsed a CSV and calculated some standard deviations.
My first job for money, I got paid $80 to unpause a dude's printer in the Windows XP Control Panel.
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@Gąska I don't remember that there was this urge in C programmers to do cute tricks so their programs look more interesting.
while(*p++=*q++);The entire reason why
=and++even return a value at all is to enable code like this.
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I can write a Python script which will do the same but better, in which I can manipulate regexes as if they themselves are (gasp!) strings and not an opaque sublanguage, which gets Unicode right and frees me from the bullshit of "in which mode now is that string?".
My complaint about Python (which I've probably stated here before) is that it tends to be used for actual programs, where Java would be a better choice. Like other scripting languages, it has dynamic typing, which breaks all sorts of helpful debugging features in IDE's like Eclipse.
I am now a Python programmer.
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So you are saying that you hate fun? Gotcha.
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@jinpa As if it was a bad thing.
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@jinpa Also, there is PyDev for Eclipse, and if you like to take pleasure in type annotations, Python now has them too.
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@jinpa Also, there is PyDev for Eclipse, and if you like to take pleasure in type annotations, Python now has them too.
I cannot make other programmers use type annotations. Especially retroactively. But I will check out PyDev. I hope it can be used on Windows without installation.
