Something I hate about Chrome
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@hungrier I can't use that for unstated, presumed religious reasons.
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@Shoreline said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Flexbox and grid don't support the browsers I want to support
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Tables are for tabular data.
This is basically the problem. We end up creating awful WTFs because browser said so.
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
IE is deprecated and unmaintained. Don't use it where possible...
Unfortunately my current company process is client-driven development. For healthcare.
You poor unfortunate soul. I know that there are sites that act as a "UI designer" for HTML/CSS and spit out CSS for the layout. Some, from what I've seen, will also spit out the workaround/polyfills for antiquated browsers. Might be worth a try, just to save sanity.
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@hungrier Is this sarcasm?
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@dkf said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@dcon said in Something I hate about Chrome:
I don't have to learn CSS.
So don't. Hire a minion to do it for you.
That explains so much about Web 2.0
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@izzion said in Something I hate about Chrome:
That explains so much about Web 2.0
Are we still on 2.0? Seems like we should be on Web 83.0 at this point as there's a new version every month.
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@PJH said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
And CSS doesn't really care which tag it is.
div { display:inline; } span { display:block; }Note that HTML still considers them to be block/inline and not inline/block even with this stylesheet, so the page will be parsed with div as a block element and span as an inline element and then displayed with the reverse.
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@levicki said in Something I hate about Chrome:
"Don't use table" is the same bullshit as "don't use goto".
Wait... you can use
gotoin HTML?
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@Zerosquare said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@levicki said in Something I hate about Chrome:
"Don't use table" is the same bullshit as "don't use goto".
Wait... you can use
gotoin HTML?<goto>You sure can</goto>
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@Zenith Tables are great for... tables.
What happens when you want to lay out two columns and then a row? And have complex layouts in each of those?
A big pain in the ass.
And the whole reason for that is because you're abusing mark up for purposes it wasn't designed (whereas freely available styles have been designed specifically for laying out divs in a sane way).
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Do this. Make it work on IE8, Firefox 24, Safari 5, and Chrome (whatever's on my phone: 792.89beta++ I think). Because the table version does.
Bonus Points: Make the "window handles" able to display Win3.1, Win98, WinXP, OS9, and OSX theming.
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
whatever's on my phone: 792.89beta++ I think
Your phone has NVidia GPU?
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@Zenith I think your first principles might be flawed. The whole layout looks like a
. Space things out! You don't have to cram everything into a single screen; we have scroll wheels.@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
divchallenge.png is your obsession with div? Nobody claims you should use divs. They say you should use styles.
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@kazitor said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Nobody claims you should use divs. They say you should use styles.
Not true, not even in this thread.
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Nyot twue, nyot even in this thwead.
I see you lack reading comprehension...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Nyot twue, nyot even in this thwead.
I see you lack reading comprehension...
Someone lacks reading comprehension alright:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1503118
https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1503795Oh, and I saw your earlier post, smart guy. I'm in the middle of moving the fixed themes into the old layout. So until maybe tomorrow I don't have time to give you one finished link. I know you can't do it with DIVs anyway.
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@Zenith How the heck does that design even work on a phone? If I went to a site that looked like that on my phone, the first thing I'd click is the address bar to get the fuck out of there.
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Someonye wacks weading compwehension awwight:
owo?
Let's see what that post says...
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Anything you can do with tables can be done better, with less work, and less hackery with CSS grid.
.. ... ..
Or heck, if all you want to do is center the header, you don't even need 2 of the divs.Shirley, this says "You shouldn't use styles" indeed.
I fail to see this post saying "You shouldn't use divs. Don't use styles".
@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Oh, and I saw youw eawwiew post, smawt guy. I'm in the middwe of moving the fixed themes into the owd wayout. So untiw maybe tomowwow I don't have time to give you onye finyished wink. I knyow you can't do it with DIVs anyway.
Oh, you're stuck on a site that assumes 800x600 window size? Well, don't count it working on Mobile then!
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@The_Quiet_One It has viewport settings that turns it into two columns. All that really gets compressed weirdly is the bottom row with the yellow blocks. I'm still working out what to do with them and might end up removing them altogether. I know it's a sin in 2019 but I do my real work on a desktop with a landscape-oriented monitor so that's where every webpage layout starts too.
@Tsaukpaetra said in Something I hate about Chrome:
They're telling me to style DIV tags "cuz tables r bad" you clown. Also fix your fucking keyboard or fruitphone or whatever you're banging your cloven hooves against.
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
They'we tewwing me to stywe DIV tags "cuz tabwes w bad" you cwown. Awso fix youw fucking keyboawd ow fwuitphonye ow whatevew you'we banging youw cwuvn houvs against.
No! ^w^
Also, My hooves aren't cloven.
Edit:
@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
I knyow it's a sin in 2019 but I do my weaw wowk on a desktop with a wandscape-owiented monyitow so that's whewe evewy webpage wayout stawts too.
I mean, I develop on a 4K monitor, but everything I do falls back gracefully down to as low as 240x170 just fine.
Well, the things I've put my hands on recently. My site from 2003 doesn't, but then again, I didn't anticipate it being loaded on a phone back in 2003.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Shoreline said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Flexbox and grid don't support the browsers I want to support
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Tables are for tabular data.
This is basically the problem. We end up creating awful WTFs because browser said so.
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
IE is deprecated and unmaintained. Don't use it where possible...
Unfortunately my current company process is client-driven development. For healthcare.
You poor unfortunate soul. I know that there are sites that act as a "UI designer" for HTML/CSS and spit out CSS for the layout. Some, from what I've seen, will also spit out the workaround/polyfills for antiquated browsers. Might be worth a try, just to save sanity.
Fortunately there are. Unfortunately I've had trouble setting up a Windows VM on my Ubuntu machine. I don't feel like it's worth it to give up Ubuntu and install Windows (which periodically bluescreened before I switched to Ubuntu). So basically when IE stuff comes up, I can't fix it. What a shame...
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
You're not understanding. Anything you can do with tables can be done better, with less work, and less hackery with CSS grid.
Except reliably work in users' browsers. But if that's an unimportant nice-to-have, then sure.
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Not exactly Chrome related but kinda-sorta:
Google's Gmail widget gets a new Material Design refresh
Widget users, rejoice! Google updated its Gmail widget to match the look of its app refresh and bring some Material Design to your home screen.
It’s a small update that doesn’t introduce new functionality. Instead, it brings the visual style of the widget in line with Gmail’s new Material Design refresh.
No new features, just looks worse. Enjoy!
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
They're telling me to style DIV tags "cuz tables r bad" you clown.
Duh, don't write your own styles. Use styles designed for laying out divs.
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@Zenith This looks really straight forward with bootstrap 4.
Like trivially easy.
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@Cabbage said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Something I hate about Chrome:
You're not understanding. Anything you can do with tables can be done better, with less work, and less hackery with CSS grid.
Except reliably work in users' browsers. But if that's an unimportant nice-to-have, then sure.
Apparently it's supported across the board unless you're using a broken or unsupported browser.
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@levicki said in Something I hate about Chrome:
You can google it, but you won't find it unless you remove space between words.
This is why I stick to SSDS.
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@Captain said in Something I hate about Chrome:
What happens when you want to lay out two columns and then a row? And have complex layouts in each of those?
A big pain in the ass.
QFT.
I'd probably use tables because they suck but I can comprehend them. Plus I know it makes lots of people angry.
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@Captain said in Something I hate about Chrome:
@Zenith This looks really straight forward with bootstrap 4.
Like trivially easy.
Even the floating bottom stuff (on the right)? That’s something I was never able to get to work “right”, I had to resort to some JavaScript hackery to adjust the size of the bottom div and the right-hand “body” div on resize.
EDIT: although my floating bottom is full-width which may make a difference...
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Even the floating bottom stuff (on the right)? That’s something I was never able to get to work “right”, I had to resort to some JavaScript hackery to adjust the size of the bottom div and the right-hand “body” div on resize.
Yes, I'd do it as a footer-like thing inside the right column and set flexbox on all the inner boxes.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Something I hate about Chrome:
unsupported browser.
Isn't "unsupported" in the context of browsers just a euphemism for "released 10 minutes ago?"
@Captain said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Duh, don't write your own styles. Use styles designed for laying out divs.
Never ever write your own code?
@Unperverted-Vixen said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Even the floating bottom stuff (on the right)?
That white box on the right is just a legend depicting size parameters. Inside that red box is actually left floated squares, like icons on your phone's home screen, except floated because I don't have a fixed width available.
I've never found a way to center a left-aligned collection like this (but it's not a Chrome problem so much as an HTML/CSS problem):
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@Zenith Never ever write your own code?
Reading isn't your strong suite, is it?
Nobody said that. Start somewhere sane and end up somewhere sane.
Start with tables and end up with a clusterfuck.
edit:
I've never found a way to center a left-aligned collection like this (but it's not a Chrome problem so much as an HTML/CSS problem):
Trivial with Bootstrap 4.
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@Captain said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Reading isn't your strong suite, is it?
Presented without comment. :)
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@Captain Does Bootstrap 4 require JavaScript? I don't like using JavaScript for layout. I also support browsers that have both been released and fallen out of support in the time it took to type this post.
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@Zenith Some of the special widgets do use JavaScript, but you don't need to load any JavaScript for the layout parts.
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@Captain
What's really annoying is that this sequence of events is unfolding:Past Me: Points out Chrome table bug.
Past Others: ARGLEBARGLE TABLES.
Past Me: Need to support browsers where DIVs don't work.
Past Others: ARGLEBARGLE IE DEPRECATED.
Past Me: Do this layout in DIVs then (see picture) because it's doable with tables.
Past Others: Prove it!
Past Others: ARGLEBARGLE pre-2019 non-Blink browsers BAD.
Future Me: Here is the URL to the working table version.
Future Others: ARGLEBARGLE HATE YOUR CONTENT.At no point will anybody provide a working DIV version (which I did not even ask for until the table inquisition started so it's more of a dare than a handout), let alone one that works in the browsers I've explicitly stated I wish to support (proof that "I" can't read), because fucking basic layout of images and text shouldn't require this braindead dependence on the moving target of Chrome betas. Now I've got to close this window to shut off the push notifications so I can actually finish updating my tables...
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@Zenith Ugh,
<div class="row"> <div class="col-xs-4"></div> <div class="col-xs-4"></div> <div class="col-xs-4"></div> <div class="col-xs-4"></div> <div class="col-xs-4"></div> </div>TADA!
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@Zenith Put it up in coder challenge. People keep complaining the challenges there have too much math.
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
fallen out of support
Then why are you supporting them?
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Future Me: Here is the URL to the working table version.
Future Others: ARGLEBARGLE HATE YOUR CONTENTStill waiting on that by the way. How's it coming?
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@Tsaukpaetra I'm doing a major WTF and implementing server side style sheets so it has color coding like the bitmap I threw together to illustrate exactly what I'm looking to accomplish. I have the left side and the header done. Currently working on the footer.
The only real layout bug I hit so far was that IE8 makes the top-right graphic huge. It doesn't do so in the previous version of the page so I have to run a diff and figure out what changed.
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@Captain said in Something I hate about Chrome:
Start somewhere sane and end up somewhere sane.
That eliminates TDWTF as either the starting or ending point.
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
browsers where DIVs don't work
Right, from now on I'm dismissing any post where you explicitly mention the
divelement as a strawman I can easily ignore. Works flawlessly for all your posts so far!
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@Zenith said in Something I hate about Chrome:
I've never found a way to center a left-aligned collection like this (but it's not a Chrome problem so much as an HTML/CSS problem):
Right, so you're not even trying. Guess what? it's IE compatible!
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@kazitor You gave the container a fixed width. Nice try. What happens when the area you want the blocks to fill is a percentage or unknown? You know, like in a gallery layout where the menu is 200px wide and the viewer is 100% wide (remainder)?
s.htm
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@Zenith How can it be centred if it doesn't have a width smaller than the parent? Christ, just remove the width and change the margin to something huge if it bothers you. Try actually trying, rather than just complaining at every turn.
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@kazitor So your answer is "you don't need..."
When you tell me to just set a fixed width, that's flying in the face of the other acolytes saying not to design for pixel perfect layouts.
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@Zenith The file you uploaded, where there is no specified width, still has them left aligned.
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@kazitor Except the yellow container doesn't conform to the size of the number of blocks that fit so the collection of blocks isn't really centered.
I mean, yes, I eventually settled a bunch of floated divs but I still can't get that layout that a super old version of PaintShopPro used for thumbnail collections.
