interview attire 2019
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@mikehurley said in interview attire 2019:
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
@mikehurley said in interview attire 2019:
Who are you trying to impress with your "professional appearance"? If you're a dev or similar role I doubt you're impressing your peers. I know some people say it helps them be more professional. In that case fair enough, if a bit weird.
It isn't about impressing, it's about impressions. It shows that you are, at the absolute bare minimum, aware of what "professional" is, and can at least give the appearance of professional. It means you are (again, bare minimum) AWARE of societal expectation and social interactions.
It isn't "yo look at this balwer threads i dropped some Benji's on".
It's "It's okay, I am not a mouth-breathing food-stained smelly person who will make everyone around me uncomfortable, will cross personal barriers, and will embrace or disgrace the company should any of our clients come around"
It's no guarantee either way, but it is a signaling indicator, and helps to leave a good impression of your personality with the interviewers.
As always, Silly Valley yadda yadda startup VCs blah blah ping-pong ball waterslide in the bathrooms etc.
I just use the rule my mom had for church
If I did that I'd never get a job, cause I'd burn every place I could potentially work for.
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@MrL said in interview attire 2019:
I don't expect sex or romantic weekends from it, just like I don't expect women to give me money .
You're clearly doing something wrong.
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@izzion said in interview attire 2019:
So there is a line of needing to be able to dress well enough that your boss isn't going to worry about what happens if a client sees you in that.
As an annecdote; in the past few years we've started working closely with some huge multinationals and I've noticed something very interesting. The higher you get in a company the looser they dress, last big meeting we had with, effectively, the controller of a Very Large Entity's UK arm he was wearing jeans and a polo shirt. We were in suits because I'd expected it to be as formal as physically possible.
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@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@MrL said in interview attire 2019:
I don't expect sex or romantic weekends from it, just like I don't expect women to give me money .
You're clearly doing something wrong.
This raises too many questions.
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@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
helps to leave a good impression of your personality with the interviewers.
Even day-to-day, not just interviews. As a contractor/consultant, I am representing my real employer to the client. Even if nobody in the client's office really cares, I want to be a good representative of the consulting/staffing company to the client. Even if the guy sitting next to me is "a mouth-breathing food-stained smelly person who will make everyone around me uncomfortable, will cross personal barriers, and will embrace or disgrace the company."
Also, personally, I'm just as comfortable in slacks and a dress shirt as jeans and t-shirt, so from a physical comfort viewpoint, it makes no difference to me.
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@Weng said in interview attire 2019:
We've got a bunch of startup style operations (legacy of pre AOL MapQuest and Turtle Beach) where you can show up naked for all they care,
Any of them hiring?
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@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@Polygeekery We have at least three of them here. @Gąska, @Maciejasjmj, @MrL, does she?
You bastard, forgot about me? I hate you all, pesky Canuks! Hope you die in a sled!
My apologies. There are 8 members of area_pol, but not all of them are actually Polish. The 3 I named were the only ones I was sure of.
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@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@Polygeekery We have at least three of them here. @Gąska, @Maciejasjmj, @MrL, does she?
You bastard, forgot about me? I hate you all, pesky Canuks! Hope you die in a sled!
My apologies. There are 8 members of area_pol, but not all of them are actually Polish. The 3 I named were the only ones I was sure of.
A typical Canuk…
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@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@Polygeekery We have at least three of them here. @Gąska, @Maciejasjmj, @MrL, does she?
You bastard, forgot about me? I hate you all, pesky Canuks! Hope you die in a sled!
My apologies. There are 8 members of area_pol, but not all of them are actually Polish. The 3 I named were the only ones I was sure of.
A typical Canuk…
That is an insult! (Whether it's insulting to me or to Canucks is open to debate.)
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@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@kt_ said in interview attire 2019:
@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@Polygeekery We have at least three of them here. @Gąska, @Maciejasjmj, @MrL, does she?
You bastard, forgot about me? I hate you all, pesky Canuks! Hope you die in a sled!
My apologies. There are 8 members of area_pol, but not all of them are actually Polish. The 3 I named were the only ones I was sure of.
A typical Canuk…
That is an insult! (Whether it's insulting to me or to Canucks is open to debate.)
Let's find out. @TimeBandit?
(Although considering you're a resident of the Silly Valley, it's probably an insult to them.)
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@Cursorkeys said in interview attire 2019:
@izzion said in interview attire 2019:
So there is a line of needing to be able to dress well enough that your boss isn't going to worry about what happens if a client sees you in that.
As an annecdote; in the past few years we've started working closely with some huge multinationals and I've noticed something very interesting. The higher you get in a company the looser they dress, last big meeting we had with, effectively, the controller of a Very Large Entity's UK arm he was wearing jeans and a polo shirt. We were in suits because I'd expected it to be as formal as physically possible.
In one of my former gigs, once my team had a meeting with Important Person from a client (other branch of the same company). He walks in, all suit up, looks around the room - there's division chief (suit jacket put on top of a tshirt), our technical co-chief of the project (20 year old tshirt and flip-flops) and me (cargo pants and Mercyful Fate Melissa tshirt). He stops gazing at my tshirt and after like 5 seconds says "I see we will understand each other VERY well".
The meeting and further cooperation with him was a breeze.
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@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@Weng said in interview attire 2019:
We've got a bunch of startup style operations (legacy of pre AOL MapQuest and Turtle Beach) where you can show up naked for all they care,
Any of them hiring?
AOL: Yes
MapQuest: Yes
http://mobile.mapquest.com/hello/careers/
Turtle Beach: Yes
Careers - Turtle Beach Corporation
Choose the best gaming headset or headphone with microphone for your PC, Xbox 360, Sony PS2, Sony PS3, Nintendo Wii, and Nintendo DS lite gaming platforms or consoles. Turtle Beach also provides the highest quality USB and PCI soundcards.
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@MrL said in interview attire 2019:
I'm not a sales rep or marketing drone to "project professionalism onto clients". If you send me to client's hq, I'll dress accordingly, but at the office I don't meet clients, only other devs. And they couldn't care less if I dress up as a Dracula if I know what I'm talking about regarding programming.
Mmm hmm. I see. {makes a red tick on your resume}
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@Jaloopa I haven't had any luck with those questions. After I had one employer micromanage how I typed, I started asking to review code "standards." You can determine a great deal about a programming job from that. I've had a grand total of one interviewer humor me on such a request, tell a recruiter how much they liked me, and disappear.
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
One of those questions should be "Can I see where I'll be working". Take a tour of the actual development floor. Can you see yourself sitting there 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for the rest of your career? Or even one day?
Then I noticed that half the devs didn't even know how to blow their fucking nose, and were constantly sniffing. Then it did become my worst nightmare.There was a time in my life I had really bad sinus problems that just blowing my nose didn't solve. Much of it is due to time of year and work environment.
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
I finished the interview, but noped out of a job offer. (I, thankfully, could do that since I was interviewing while working somewhere, and had other potential offers waiting).
What area are we talking about? It sounds like when I read stories on Slashdot about people walking out for lunch and receiving 7 remote offers with stock options and a foosball table before they reach the restaurant. The attitude here is more like Ebenezer Scrooge's "are there no work houses" speech.
I'm less concerned about the office than autonomy so that's the direction my questions have developed.
- Is the documentation, correctness, and efficiency of my code more important than bracket placement?
- How much of my day will be consumed by meetings that distract from programming work?
- Will your reaction to a suggestion be to consider it, ignore it, dismiss it, or throw a tantrum?
- Are there opportunities to do new projects (however small) or are you looking to hire a janitor?
There are some tools I don't like, such as MVC and Entity, because every single implementation that I've ever seen has done nothing but make work harder and slower for no reason. If I was ever shown a project where they delivered any actual benefits, my willingness to work with them might change, but like "standards" this is something that's always sprung on me when it's too late.
I actually like working with end users so long as I have the power to help them because that's important. Otherwise, it's effectively an authority problem; I could definitely help you, but the boss won't let me, and he also won't let me tell you why I can't help you because he wants to blame everybody else for not delivering top level products/services.
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@MrL said in interview attire 2019:
@dkf said in interview attire 2019:
blood-sucking vampire
managementThey are not that bad.
I assume you mean the blood-sucking vampire. Because management is always that bad.
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@MrL said in interview attire 2019:
I worked in exactly one place where management voiced concerns of this nature.
This (for some weird reason) reminded me of a job I had ages ago. 3rd shift, processing bank stuff (all the statements, checks, paperwork, etc that a bank needs). Mgmt wanted us to wear ties. (jeans were ok, sneakers were not) We were working with heavy equipment that sucked in vast amounts of paper and cut things into individual pages. We finally convinced (a Ross Perot company!) them that it was a serious safety issue.
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@TimeBandit said in interview attire 2019:
@Karla said in interview attire 2019:
I do have a thing for vampires
/me add to notebook
Me thinks you haven't read the thread all the way through if this is your only comment.
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@Karla said in interview attire 2019:
@TimeBandit said in interview attire 2019:
/me add to notebook
Me thinks you haven't read the thread all the way through if this is your only comment.
Shit, now I have to go back to the beginning
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@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
There was a time in my life I had really bad sinus problems that just blowing my nose didn't solve. Much of it is due to time of year and work environment.
If I had time to photoshop a bottle of nasal spray onto the end of a glock...
@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
Is the documentation, correctness, and efficiency of my code more important than bracket placement?
How much of my day will be consumed by meetings that distract from programming work?
Will your reaction to a suggestion be to consider it, ignore it, dismiss it, or throw a tantrum?
Are there opportunities to do new projects (however small) or are you looking to hire a janitor?
You're paraphrasing, I hope.
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@dcon said in interview attire 2019:
We were working with heavy equipment that sucked in vast amounts of paper and cut things into individual pages. We finally convinced (a Ross Perot company!) them that it was a serious safety issue.
You see, you give the laborers an inch, and they'll lazily steal a mile right from your very pockets. Next thing you know, they'll be asking for a bathroom or safety rails or to not breath in toxic fumes from the chemicals we dump in the river. Leeches, all of them.
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@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
If I had time to photoshop a bottle of nasal spray onto the end of a glock...
Photoshop? Pffffffffbt. Fucking amateur.
For added hilarity my wife walked in right as I was taking that picture. She just looks at me.
"I would really rather not explain this one."
"I probably don't want to know anyway."
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@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
Is the documentation, correctness, and efficiency of my code more important than bracket placement?
How much of my day will be consumed by meetings that distract from programming work?
Will your reaction to a suggestion be to consider it, ignore it, dismiss it, or throw a tantrum?
Are there opportunities to do new projects (however small) or are you looking to hire a janitor?You're paraphrasing, I hope.
Not on the first. I'm writing computer code to execute a process, not laying out a magazine page. If baby can't read Pascal casing or Allman brackets, that's baby's problem. "Readability" is also more of an issue when you don't document your code or it has to be fixed over and over and over. The sort of developer throwing rocks at my work would be lucky to live in a glass house on both fronts.
Second, slightly. Why shouldn't I ask how my time would be divided between meetings and work? Meetings are almost universally a waste of time. Look, you can send a question via e-mail in 30 seconds or you can schedule a meeting, wait days for that time to come, travel to a potentially different building, wait for everybody to show up, and then hear "lol idunno, i'll have to ask somebody else and get back to you." Then there are the meetings where they're not related to what you do, you have no input, no information is communicated, or some combination of the three. Western programmers are constantly told we "don't compete" with H1Bs and taking 2-3 hours out of every day doesn't help.
Third, yes, this is paraphrased. Sometimes it comes out as "what happens if I find a bug in the code? do you have bug reporting facilities?" I've had jobs where the underlying "framework" was full of bugs that impeded my work. Parts outright didn't work, the owner wouldn't fix them (locked repository), and I was scolded for working around them after a meeting where "we" were scolded about missing yet another deadline.
Fourth, as often as I've been told "fix this without changing anything or else," I don't want stuck doing just maintenance work. The only way I can ever hope to advance is to do a project my way and show superior results. I also don't want to hear "oh me, oh my, product X is terrible, the devs are idiots" from the same people that won't let me do anything about it. I won't take blame for something out of my control, which is spun into "not a team player," which leads to more interviews.
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@Zerosquare said in interview attire 2019:
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
*NO PERFUMES, AFTERSHAVE OR COLOGNE".
I'm perplexed by that. Yes, bathing in perfume is not a good idea, but I've never heard that "normal" usage of perfume/aftershave/cologne is a problem. Is this cultural?
I can count on one hand the number of times I smelled perfume/cologne off someone at work. And they aren't pleasant memories.
Hell I wore hair product that had a little smell and I got comments at work.
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@dangeRuss said in interview attire 2019:
@Zerosquare said in interview attire 2019:
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
*NO PERFUMES, AFTERSHAVE OR COLOGNE".
I'm perplexed by that. Yes, bathing in perfume is not a good idea, but I've never heard that "normal" usage of perfume/aftershave/cologne is a problem. Is this cultural?
I can count on one hand the number of times I smelled perfume/cologne off someone at work. And they aren't pleasant memories.
Hell I wore hair product that had a little smell and I got comments at work.
I'm allergic to perfume so I never got to build up an olfactory tolerance of the stuff. I can smell the bad cases several rooms away. I can smell the shampoo of people from about a meter away, while indoors.
Some perfumes have such a rancid tang to them that I prefer the smell of stale piss.
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@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
waterslide in the bathrooms
At least you hope it's water
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@Carnage said in interview attire 2019:
I'm allergic to perfume so I never got to build up an olfactory tolerance of the stuff.
Perfumes themselves are just plain old unpleasant, but the solvents they use with them…
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@Carnage said in interview attire 2019:
I can smell the bad cases several rooms away. I can smell the shampoo of people from about a meter away, while indoors.
Makes sense.
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@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
Not on the first. I'm writing computer code to execute a process, not laying out a magazine page. If baby can't read Pascal casing or Allman brackets, that's baby's problem. "Readability" is also more of an issue when you don't document your code or it has to be fixed over and over and over. The sort of developer throwing rocks at my work would be lucky to live in a glass house on both fronts.
It comes off as fairly hostile, or at least giving the impression of "rock star". The wording sounds like "Are you going to let me do real work, or just a bunch of fucking useless bullshit?"
It says to the interviewer "I am not only stubborn about my way being the right way, but I will refuse to do work any other way". Not a team player-- and if you're that adamant about something like bracket placement, what else are you going to dig your feet in for? Is hiring you just going to be a struggle / fight every time?
And saying "do I get to do this good thing, or only this shitty thing" is extremely dismissive of anything that isn't "this good thing". A non-techie could take it as "oh, he's one of those programmers who looks down on everyone else". A programmer might think "is he just going to dump code and expect us to figure it out". Maybe there's the person who actually wrote the style guide interviewing you. Or there is (almost certainly) a history of no-longer-employed-there programmers who did just diarrhea out a bunch of code, and they spent hours or days trying to read it. Are you going to be making maintainable code?
@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
Second, slightly. Why shouldn't I ask how my time would be divided between meetings and work? Meetings are almost universally a waste of time.
.... and interview is a meeting.
It's also a overly hostile "thing I want to do, or utter bullshit" dichotomy. Do they want to put up with eye rolls and "uhhhhg, fine" every time there's a meeting? If you are dismissive of all meetings, then is that a reflection on your ability to prioritize? Sure, some meetings aren't as valuable as others, so will you be valuable in the ones that they do have? It also says "I don't consider anything other than coding to be real work". If you're presenting yourself as "not just a janitor", then you have to be involved in other aspects of development than just typing. Planing, scoping, working out requirements with clients, kickoff meetings to go over business requirements, validating business requirements from a technical point of view.
Very few places want "just someone who will sit there and code". You seem to be very disparaging about H1Bs, yet want to do the same thing they do.
Asking about "What would my typical day / week look like" is more on point. Let them tell you what your responsibilities would be. It's their job to sell the position to you / woo you. If they lay out a day full of nothing but meetings, etc, then you can make your decision without coming off as hostile. Or you can show interest by asking follow up questions. "So that morning progress meeting, what goes on in there? Is it everyone, or just a few people?"
@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
Third, yes, this is paraphrased. Sometimes it comes out as "what happens if I find a bug in the code? do you have bug reporting facilities?"
That's better wording.
@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
've had jobs where the underlying "framework" was full of bugs that impeded my work. Parts outright didn't work, the owner wouldn't fix them (locked repository), and I was scolded for working around them after a meeting where "we" were scolded about missing yet another deadline.
Find a diplomatic way of saying that, and you have your prepped answer for "Tell me about a time when you hit a major roadblock, or missed a deadline, because of external factors".
@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
Fourth, as often as I've been told "fix this without changing anything or else," I don't want stuck doing just maintenance work.
"Is he going to come in and just spend all his time rewriting the codebase we've developed over the past decade?"
Maintenance and bug fixing is an integral part of any codebase. It's very rare for someone to work exclusively on new features / projects, and never existing code (or their own older code).
The only way I can ever hope to advance is to do a project my way and show superior results.
See above re: overly hostile and dismissive of things that don't meet your standards. Especially if you're hinting that the only way to advance is to stomp on the work of others.(FYI: I'm presenting all of the above as someone who does do the majority of interviews for developers at my company. You obviously have a very specific goal in mind for the job you're hunting for. But even if you are interviewing for that perfect job-- low meetings, lots of new projects, good bug tracking tools, etc-- you can still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with a bad interview)
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@Carnage said in interview attire 2019:
@dangeRuss said in interview attire 2019:
@Zerosquare said in interview attire 2019:
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
*NO PERFUMES, AFTERSHAVE OR COLOGNE".
I'm perplexed by that. Yes, bathing in perfume is not a good idea, but I've never heard that "normal" usage of perfume/aftershave/cologne is a problem. Is this cultural?
I can count on one hand the number of times I smelled perfume/cologne off someone at work. And they aren't pleasant memories.
Hell I wore hair product that had a little smell and I got comments at work.
I'm allergic to perfume so I never got to build up an olfactory tolerance of the stuff. I can smell the bad cases several rooms away. I can smell the shampoo of people from about a meter away, while indoors.
Some perfumes have such a rancid tang to them that I prefer the smell of stale piss.I hate strong perfumes and many cleaning products (bleach, lysol sprays, etc). I will start violently coughing when opening the door of bathroom after someone sprayed half a bottle of it.
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Incidentally, the broken framework job just got reposted on ZipRecruiter. Unfortunately, the two developers that insisted I play as dumb as they were are still there. They told me their sad story about how they can't find anybody good when I was hired. They told the next person too. And every one that followed.
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
Maybe there's the person who actually wrote the style guide interviewing you. Or there is (almost certainly) a history of no-longer-employed-there programmers who did just diarrhea out a bunch of code, and they spent hours or days trying to read it. Are you going to be making maintainable code?
They could actually ask to look at some code. It's just so secretive. They won't show you the style guide and they don't want to see your code. Then a week or month out from the end of probation they flip out and fire you because you capitalized your constants. Why not sort that out at the interview?
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
Very few places want "just someone who will sit there and code". You seem to be very disparaging about H1Bs, yet want to do the same thing they do.
I've done requirements gathering, system architecture, testing, documentation, and training. That's what puts me above blindly following a script and having to keep redoing work.
Let me give you an example. You have a report that runs every month. Do you write it with a parameter for the month? Or do you hard code the month, wait for somebody to notice something's wrong, and hard code a different month so you can do this all over again? When I was a DBA, I got really tired of having to keep cleaning up after this lack of critical thinking (hence the janitor comment).
Although, I wouldn't be able to handle a daily standup for the same reason I don't like spending half an hour every day accounting for the other seven and a half in 10-minute blocks. It's a substitute for the PM walking around and micromanaging everybody in person. I'm an adult. Give me a job that takes a week, check in on me once or twice, and I'll tell you when I need help.
If places "don't want you to just sit and code," they have a funny way of showing it when you're siloed off and drip-fed by a PM.
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
"Is he going to come in and just spend all his time rewriting the codebase we've developed over the past decade?"
Does it need rewriting? I know how to leave other peoples' code alone. Doesn't mean in won't use functions or inheritance in my own.
@Lorne-Kates said in interview attire 2019:
😶 See above re: overly hostile and dismissive of things that don't meet your standards. Especially if you're hinting that the only way to advance is to stomp on the work of others.
That's not what I'm saying. If bad architecture or processes are causing problems, not fixing them puts you into an eternal game of whack-a-mole. Bear with me here. Have you ever seen a project where you were 110% sure something you've done before would cut the torrent of errors down to a trickle and been told "oh me, oh my, it might break something so it's impossible?" What I infer from that sort of a response is that the only way to show your idea works is on a new project.
That reposted job is rife with examples of decisions that weren't producing the desired result and wouldn't be reconsidered. They just kept banging their heads against the wall and dumped the blame on every new hire that walked through the door.
I try to ask questions in the nicest way possible but I feel there's a culture of dishonesty that makes interviewing more difficult than it has to be.
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I'm probably too late, but I suggest wearing a security blanket.
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@Gribnit Like Linus from Peanuts?
I've got an interview coming up on Friday afternoon. I'm pretty lukewarm on the job description and the hammer hasn't come down here yet. On the other hand, I must've applied for 50 jobs and this is the first that's called me in for an interview (ZipRecruiter insists the applications are being viewed but they're either laughing at them or making those nobody-talks-for-60-seconds-and-then-hangs-up calls I keep receiving) . On the other other hand. lately I've been feeling like closing the garage door and letting the engine run.
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@Gribnit said in interview attire 2019:
I'm probably too late, but I suggest wearing a security blanket.
As far as arriving at an interview goes, I'd recommend the approach of Malcolm's dad, get a few body builder friends to tow your car by rope.
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@Zenith said in interview attire 2019:
lately I've been feeling like closing the garage door and letting the engine run
as long as it's an electrical engine, go ahead
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@Zenith Have you tried Triplebyte?
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@pie_flavor I just checked it out and unfortunately it's like that job site Alex was shilling for a year or so ago in that it only supports four cities (three of which are on the west coast). I think I'll have to create my own job if I want to work somewhere else without moving cross-country.
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@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
@kt_ Even in Silly Valley, interview etiquette requires covering that fit physique with some kind of clothing.
Seriously, while looking fit won't hurt (unless, perhaps, you look like a narcissistic Mr. Universe on steroids), it's certainly not necessary, as my existence as an employed person can attest.
@obeselymorbid, thanks for the necro-upvote.
Coincidentally, I saw somebody interviewing here a couple of days ago in a suit and tie. I've seen a lot of fairly nicely dressed people being interviewed, but he was the first person I've ever seen in this company wearing a suit. He looked conspicuously out of place being interviewed by guys in t-shirts, shorts and sandals.
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@HardwareGeek said in interview attire 2019:
Coincidentally, I saw somebody interviewing here a couple of days ago in a suit and tie. I've seen a lot of fairly nicely dressed people being interviewed, but he was the first person I've ever seen in this company wearing a suit. He looked conspicuously out of place being interviewed by guys in t-shirts, shorts and sandals.
Do you know if he got the job?
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@boomzilla No, I don't know. I don't think I'd recognize him if I saw him again; the only thing particularly memorable about his appearance (which is all the information I have about him; I don't know his name or the position he was applying for, nor even remember who interviewed him) was his attire, and I wouldn't expect him to wear a suit to work if he was hired.
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