Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything
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So, toddling around Reddit this morning, I stumbled across this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/
TLDR: Dude got banned from the Roll20 subreddit. Roll20 is an online virtual tabletop service for things like D&D and other RPGs. Main mod (who just so also happens to be the co-founder of the company) claims he was an alt account for a user that was banned a year prior because their usernames are similar and they're "erring on the side of caution" in banning him for ban evasion. He contests this, gets no response for 36 hours, then gets a response of "We checked with the reddit admins, you share no IPs or any other indicators that you're the other person, but since you got so up in arms about this we're maintaining the ban because we think you'll be toxic to the community."
So the dude posts the thread I linked above.
Said head moderator/co-founder posted a response in a separate thread, being an unapologetic dickbag:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Roll20/comments/9iwjwd/read_this/e6n4bgx/So now the sub's all up in arms, trying to get him removed (as well as any other employees who happen to be moderating the subreddit) and get it back in community hands.
Looks like Atwood has a new disciple...(thanks @Weng for suggesting that)
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Oh, even better: That sub's ENTIRE mod team is employees of the company. Which is in complete opposition to how Reddit's Mod-etiquette is supposed to work.
From the reddiquette list:
Please Don't:
Take moderation positions in a community where your profession, employment, or biases could pose a direct conflict of interest to the neutral and user driven nature of reddit.
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@e4tmyl33t Wow. I'll certainly talk about this at my next roleplaying sessions (and there's a chance I'll see one of my fellow players tonight).
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@Khudzlin Yeah. I haven't had a game in quite a long time and I was considering trying to start one via Roll20 or something, but after this shitshow I think I'll look for other alternatives. Maybe just Discord with a diceroll bot or something.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
they're "erring on the side of caution" in banning him for ban evasion
Erring on the side of caution would be the exact opposite of what they did.
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@e4tmyl33t I'm not sure you have to be a paying user for running a game. You probably don't have to be one for joining. My next session is on Sunday, I'll ask the others about that.
About remote playing: I once played a session through skype. It was about 12 years ago and I was the only one separated from the group (by 6 time zones). Video definition was probably not up to showing my dice roll, but we didn't have a better solution. I don't know all you can program into discord bots, but I'd be surprised if you can't program dice-rolling.
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@Khudzlin Oh, you absolutely don't, being a paid user just gives you some perks and access to additional tools...but if the co-founder of the company is going to be a censorious asshat who refuses to hear valid criticism of his platform then I don't really want to use that platform.
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Reddit's full of power-hungry mods with such self-esteem issues they'll ban someone for reporting dead links on the basis that the user is "accusing them of lying"
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@e4tmyl33t said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
if the co-founder of the company is going to be a censorious asshat
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It makes me think of the time I got banned from editing tvtropes.org. Not that I kicked up much of a fuss over it like this guy did, but it was the same level of stupid, if you ask me. I suddenly found myself unable to edit, without a warning or anything, because (as the ban notice said) they found that people ignore warnings and so just remove their edit permission right away. I appealed this decision by saying I wasn’t aware of the rules I had apparently broken but I had read them now and would abide by them in future. However, the reply I got was essentially, “I’m not convinced you will” and the ban was maintained. But what more can I do than say I’ll follow the rules? Felt like a vicious circle to me, and the attitude behind the other person’s posts soon made me think, “fuck you” and avoid tvtropes.org ever since.
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@Gurth I stopped editing tvtropes when I got some stupid notice that a comment I left was removed due to "natter". (I think that was the stupid made-up word.) To this day I have no idea what "natter" is, or why it's grounds for removing a comment.
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@blakeyrat Natter is usually a term for really informal or casual speech, like gossip.
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@e4tmyl33t is there a way to interpret the entirety of tvtropes as anything but natter?
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@Gurth said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
avoid tvtropes.org ever since
That's the source of your productivity…
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A company dedicated to tabletop games.
Internet outrage.
Company founder being a dick.
Even more internet outrage.How can this be more "nerds fighting nerds over nerdalia" than what it is?
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@admiral_p said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
A company dedicated to tabletop games.
Internet outrage.
Company founder being a dick.
Even more internet outrage.How can this be more "nerds fighting nerds over nerdalia" than what it is?
Include cosplay.
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@Polygeekery said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@admiral_p said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
A company dedicated to tabletop games.
Internet outrage.
Company founder being a dick.
Even more internet outrage.How can this be more "nerds fighting nerds over nerdalia" than what it is?
Include cosplay.
Or Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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@boomzilla said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@Polygeekery said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@admiral_p said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
A company dedicated to tabletop games.
Internet outrage.
Company founder being a dick.
Even more internet outrage.How can this be more "nerds fighting nerds over nerdalia" than what it is?
Include cosplay.
Or Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Or Quidditch.
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@Polygeekery said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@boomzilla said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@Polygeekery said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@admiral_p said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
A company dedicated to tabletop games.
Internet outrage.
Company founder being a dick.
Even more internet outrage.How can this be more "nerds fighting nerds over nerdalia" than what it is?
Include cosplay.
Or Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Or Quidditch.
Or cosplaying Niel deGrasse Tyson playing Quidditch.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
"We checked with the reddit admins, you share no IPs or any other indicators that you're the other person, but since you got so up in arms about this we're maintaining the ban because we think you'll be toxic to the community."
That kind of extreme prejudice is sort of like how posting in certain subreddits will get you banned from certain other subreddits.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
Reddit's full of power-hungry mods with such self-esteem issues they'll ban someone for reporting dead links on the basis that the user is "accusing them of lying"
Aaaand he starts off by assuming bad faith. What a fair-minded, reasonable person to have in a leadership role.
Bonus points would be awarded for including a screenshot to a service like downforeveryoneorjustme.com showing that the link was, in fact, broken.
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Someone did the smart thing. ALL existing moderators of the Roll20 subreddit have been removed and replaced with the current mod team of a similar subreddit (/r/lfg).
I'm surprised this happened today. I was expecting this to drag out a few days.
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@e4tmyl33t If all of the moderators were the problem, who's the person with permission to remove them all?
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@The_Quiet_One Archive.is? Were you in one of the meta/drama subs? Because those are terrible places full of terrible people.
And yeah, mods turning out to be assholes and going against the entire community is one of reddit's frequent things... it's designed to give complete power to the mods over their sub AND subs come on a first come, first serve basis, so whoever is lucky enough to grab /r/tomatoes gets to be the supreme ruler of all discussion of tomatoes for eternity (unless enough people can be convinced to go to /r/tomatoes2).
Worse, there's no transparency. If the mods decide to ban all mention of X, including mentioning the fact that mentioning it is forbidden, a newcomer will never know.
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@blakeyrat It looks like one moderator made the decision, removed all the other mods, added the new mod squad, and then removed themselves.
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@anonymous234 said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@The_Quiet_One Archive.is? Were you in one of the meta/drama subs? Because those are terrible places full of terrible people.
No, this wasn't me. I pulled this from r/insanepeoplefacebook
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@anonymous234 said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@The_Quiet_One Archive.is? Were you in one of the meta/drama subs? Because those are terrible places full of terrible people.
And yeah, mods turning out to be assholes and going against the entire community is one of reddit's frequent things... it's designed to give complete power to the mods over their sub AND subs come on a first come, first serve basis, so whoever is lucky enough to grab /r/tomatoes gets to be the supreme ruler of all discussion of tomatoes for eternity (unless enough people can be convinced to go to /r/tomatoes2).
Worse, there's no transparency. If the mods decide to ban all mention of X, including mentioning the fact that mentioning it is forbidden, a newcomer will never know.
FTW. As always.
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@anonymous234 said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
And yeah, mods turning out to be assholes and going against the entire community is one of reddit's frequent things... it's designed to give complete power to the mods over their sub AND subs come on a first come, first serve basis, so whoever is lucky enough to grab /r/tomatoes gets to be the supreme ruler of all discussion of tomatoes for eternity (unless enough people can be convinced to go to /r/tomatoes2).
Worse, there's no transparency. If the mods decide to ban all mention of X, including mentioning the fact that mentioning it is forbidden, a newcomer will never know.There's the occasional day I think to myself "Hmm, maybe I should look into this reddit everyone goes on about. I mean, it's popular, right?"
And then I keep coming across articles like this and I'm reminded why I've never gone to reddit (on purpose).
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@Lorne-Kates Reddit is basically what you get if SomethingAwful and PornHub had a baby and they stapled Digg onto the front of it to give users plausible deniability.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
Said head moderator/co-founder posted a response in a separate thread,
Ouch...
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Apparently all the mods of r/roll20 left and were replaced with the mods of r/lfg.
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@HardwareGeek I swear this page had sixteen fewer responses five seconds ago. God, I hate NodeBB.
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@pie_flavor said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@HardwareGeek I swear this page had sixteen fewer responses five seconds ago. God, I hate NodeBB.
When in doubt, refresh. You should know by now.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
When in doubt,
refreshCOMPLAIN.
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@blakeyrat said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@Gurth I stopped editing tvtropes when I got some stupid notice that a comment I left was removed due to "natter". (I think that was the stupid made-up word.) To this day I have no idea what "natter" is, or why it's grounds for removing a comment.
Sounds like much the same reason I got banned for. In my case it came down to posting anecdotes and indenting more than one level — taken together, that described roughly three quarters of the pages on that site (at least back then, no idea how it is now because I refuse to go there).
Since it’s not like you got shown the rules when you made an account, if you then do the obvious thing, namely follow the site’s apparent style, you get banned.
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@dkf said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@Gurth said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
avoid tvtropes.org ever since
That's the source of your productivity…
You’re making assumptions there …
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@blakeyrat They have a page on it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Natter
Essentially, if what you say looks like you're "replying" to an example, it should go to the discussion page instead.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@anonymous234 said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
And yeah, mods turning out to be assholes and going against the entire community is one of reddit's frequent things... it's designed to give complete power to the mods over their sub AND subs come on a first come, first serve basis, so whoever is lucky enough to grab /r/tomatoes gets to be the supreme ruler of all discussion of tomatoes for eternity (unless enough people can be convinced to go to /r/tomatoes2).
Worse, there's no transparency. If the mods decide to ban all mention of X, including mentioning the fact that mentioning it is forbidden, a newcomer will never know.There's the occasional day I think to myself "Hmm, maybe I should look into this reddit everyone goes on about. I mean, it's popular, right?"
And then I keep coming across articles like this and I'm reminded why I've never gone to reddit (on purpose).
The thing is, Reddit is a huge aggregation of millions of different... forums? Communities? Whatever - there's millions of subreddits, and each has a completely different culture. There are ones all about memes. There are ones about srsbsns discussions where memes aren't allowed at all. There are ones where any negativity toward others gets you permabanned, as well as ones like WTDWTF. It's about as diverse as the entire internet. Looking at this topic and saying "wow I don't want to have anything to do with Reddit" is like reading about Florida Man and concluding that all 330 million people living in USA are batshit crazy.
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@Gąska said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
all 330 million people living in USA are batshit crazy.
No just the 21 million in Florida
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@Gąska said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
There are ones where any negativity toward others gets you permabanned, as well as ones like WTDWTF.
Yeah. We ban people for positivity here!
reading about Florida Man and concluding that all 330 million people living in USA are batshit crazy
Well… all 21 million in Florida qualify for sure.
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@dkf said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
reading about Florida Man and concluding that all 330 million people living in USA are batshit crazy
Well… all 21 million in Florida qualify for sure.
That's my point. You can't just lump all states together with Florida.
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@Gąska said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
You can't just lump all states together with Florida.
Just the other ones of the lower 48? OK…
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@Gąska said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
Looking at this topic and saying "wow I don't want to have anything to do with Reddit" is like reading about Florida Man and concluding that all 330 million people living in USA are batshit crazy.
We're not?
Damn it. Now what am I going to do with all these dildos, alligators and bath salts?
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@Polygeekery send them to Florida.
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@Gąska "Sending alligators to Florida" should be a figure of speech if it isn't already one.
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@Polygeekery said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@Gąska said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
Looking at this topic and saying "wow I don't want to have anything to do with Reddit" is like reading about Florida Man and concluding that all 330 million people living in USA are batshit crazy.
We're not?
Damn it. Now what am I going to do with all these dildos, alligators and bath salts?
Living in Florida implies crazy. Living elsewhere does not imply not crazy. We certainly have plenty of examples just in this forum.
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@Luhmann said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
When in doubt,
refreshCOMPLAIN.Why not both?
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@loopback0 said in Oh look, another internet company lets its ego get in the way of everything:
Why not both?
