The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card)
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So, Apple released a new trio of iPhones. A normal-sized. A phablet-sized. And a cheap version. Well...
And the phablet version:
And the cheap version (which in the US apparently has no unlocked-from-start option):
Yeah, I totally wanna pay a 4-digit number for a device I carry around in a pocket all day, putting it at a high risk of getting damaged. Also, Apple discontinued the iPhone SE so their cheapest phone now is the iPhone 7 which costs way-to-fucking-much for a phone a few years old. Did you hope for a proper successor to the iPhone SE in the affordable range? Fuck you, give us money! It's like Apple saw the people going "Fuck, the iPhone X is pricey!" and went "Hold my beer!".
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Reading up on the specs I see absolutely fuck all to motivate the iPhone Xs costing more than the iPhone X did at release. It has a faster CPU, which is a natural progression that does not motivate a higher price.
Even worse is comparing the iPhone Xr to the iPhone 8 Plus, where the Xr loses features and has a lower resolution despite the larger screen. So I can get a phone with less features to a higher price. Great deal there, Apple.
Also, it's still laughable that Apple with their "Super Retina" displays still has not reached even 1440p on a smartphone. The Xr doesn't even reach 1080p, running 1792 x 828.
Oh, and speaking of removing stuff: the new iPhone X variants wont include the Lightning-to-3.5mm adapter for headphones.
I hope that the stupidly high pricing will finally backfire on Apple and take them down a few notches (along with its similar-priced competition), because it is getting really ridiculous now. Most of the marketing speak this time is about how great the materials and design is, not about if it actually is good as a smartphone. Maybe spend less time on useless crap like 7-layered coloring processes to get the exact tone and the phones could reach sane and affordable prices.
And then in a month we can see if Google will try doing the same thing with the Pixel 3 and match the insane overprice, or do the sane thing and go in the affordable direction again. Give me a proper Nexus 5X successor! Sub-$500 with decent hardware and timely updates.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
Yeah, I totally wanna pay a 4-digit number for a device I carry around in a pocket all day, putting it at a high risk of getting damaged.
It's part of their programme of making people happier to purchase Samsungs instead, and so restore the exclusivity of the Apple brand.
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Hmm. What are those GB²? Gigabyte-squared? Square-gigabytes? Giga-square-bytes?
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@cvi Pointer towards the usual notice about "actual free space is less due to OS and preinstalled apps". But the interpretation of them being square-gigabytes is better I agree. Just wait until the next model brings out the cube-gigabytes!
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
The Xr doesn't even reach 1080p, running 1792 x 828.
Sweet Jesus. And I'm still here, running my Samsung S4 (which I upgraded to a newer Android version via a custom ROM) and enjoying 1080p, which I pretty much took for granted in newer phones (especially in iPhone's price range), seeing how my one was released in March 2013.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
And then in a month we can see if Google will try doing the same thing with the Pixel 3 and match the insane overprice, or do the sane thing and go in the affordable direction again. Give me a proper Nexus 5X successor! Sub-$500 with decent hardware and timely updates.
I needed a new phone a month back as my Samsung Note 3 was not charging properly and crashing a couple of times a day. I took a look at the prices and promptly nope'd into looking at a 200 quid Xiaomi, nearly the same for a quarter the cost.
Then I took mine apart and ran the logic board through our reflow oven. Annoyingly that's fully fixed it so I don't get a new phone right now, but it's definitely going to be a Chinese one when I do.
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It gets even crazier when you live in a country that adds VAT. In the Czech Republic the MSRP for the top Xs model is 43 500 CZK, which at today's rate is 1,978.44 USD. That's getting dangerously close to the "this phone is more expensive than my car" territory.
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By the way, according to The Verge, the headphone jack dongle is the second most sold accessory for the iPhone in a can't-remember-which American electronics chain, so it's adding insult to injury. Oh, and what's the quality of the DAC in the dongle? They sell it for $9, so I'm betting it's going to be an extremely cheap, shit DAC too.
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@blek Oh, I should do that with the 512GB Xs Max.
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18399 SEK -> $2048
So, uh, not just insanely expensive from the start, it's about 40% more expensive in Sweden on top of that. Ouch.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
the Xr loses features
With Windows Phone dead the amount of features for Apple to 'invent' is much smaller.
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Yeah, I totally wanna pay a 4-digit number for a device I carry around in a pocket all day, putting it at a high risk of getting damaged. [...] It's like Apple saw the people going "Fuck, the iPhone X is pricey!" and went "Hold my beer!".
The thing is, the small fraction of people who are willing to pay that is worth more money than everyone else. So yes, they are very deliberately keeping their phones expensive.
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So XS stands for excess, not extra small?
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@blek Oh, I should do that with the 512GB Xs Max.
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18399 SEK -> $2048
So, uh, not just insanely expensive from the start, it's about 40% more expensive in Sweden on top of that. Ouch.
To be "fair", we do get two years' warranty (it's only one year in the US, isn't it?) and less of the shitfuckery by Apple (so they charge accordingly).
I fail to see the value proposition with iPhones. When they had a point, they were half the price. Today smartphones are a commodity and an iPhone doesn't do much more than cheap phones (even the better cameras are sort of a luxury, because there are limits to what a small sensor and cheap lens can do). For the price of a base iPhone (which will last me, say, five years, assuming I never drop it or whatever) I can buy midrange phones every two years and still spend less (and I could even afford dropping it or damaging it otherwise).
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In Euros the iPhone extra small max is at €1650, bringing it to $1917.
Finally a status symbol again. Your hair dresser and the other riffraff will no longer have the audacity to have the same phone as you. Or maybe they will, it might still be too cheap.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
18399 SEK -> $2048
Sounds like it's an absolute bargain at 2369 AUD / 1702 USD in Australia.
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@admiral_p said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I fail to see the value proposition with iPhones. When they had a point, they were half the price. Today smartphones are a commodity and an iPhone doesn't do much more than cheap phones (even the better cameras are sort of a luxury, because there are limits to what a small sensor and cheap lens can do). For the price of a base iPhone (which will last me, say, five years, assuming I never drop it or whatever) I can buy midrange phones every two years and still spend less (and I could even afford dropping it or damaging it otherwise).
People who don't think they're worth that much aren't the target market. Film at 11.
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@loopback0 of course I'm not, but I'm guessing (not really, this is supported by data) that their target market is shrinking (and that's probably why they cost more - higher and higher margins). It's a deliberate choice but then in my view this means Apple has stopped being that relevant and they're getting less and less relevant. I don't see or hear as many fans any more, and they're certainly less rabid than they once were.
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@admiral_p That also looks like such a weird marketing decision to me. "We're selling less phones, so let's make them more expensive to make the same amount of money." But what about the App Store then? Wouldn't less sold iPhones lead to less market share meaning less revenue from sales there? So while they make the same amount of profit from phones despite declining sales, they will also make less profit from apps. Ya know, the thing that makes profit through the entire lifetime of the phone rather than just at the start.
Considering how mourned the loss of the iPhone SE is from a cursory glance I think that not having a replacement for that is Apple shooting themselves in the foot. It has two things not found in any current iPhone: Affordable and small size. And if Apple wants to increase their market share they will at least need one phone in the midrange segment.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@admiral_p That also looks like such a weird marketing decision to me. "We're selling less phones, so let's make them more expensive to make the same amount of money." But what about the App Store then? Wouldn't less sold iPhones lead to less market share meaning less revenue from sales there? So while they make the same amount of profit from phones despite declining sales, they will also make less profit from apps. Ya know, the thing that makes profit through the entire lifetime of the phone rather than just at the start.
My guess is that they're purposefully disengaging from the high-volume smartphone market (their market share has been steadily decreasing after all) because they know that, if they want to keep being Apple, it's harder and harder to pull it off when the Android competition is basically as good or better, in the conventional "flagship price range" ($600-800).
Considering how mourned the loss of the iPhone SE is from a cursory glance I think that not having a replacement for that is Apple shooting themselves in the foot. It has two things not found in any current iPhone: Affordable and small size. And if Apple wants to increase their market share they will at least need one phone in the midrange segment.
Apple is in a weird place. They used to have music players and computers once upon a time, then it moved to smartphones and tablets (and they started neglecting their computer lines). Apple apparently wants to move into services (which makes sense). They'll have to accept opening up though for this.
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@admiral_p said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
and they started neglecting their computer lines
Hopefully they are starting to return to some form of sanity with their computer lines now. Rumors points towards there being a Mac event in October where they will release the successors to the MacBook Air (2015) and Mac mini (2014) which has been long overdue for an update. Unfortunately, the new Mac mini may not come in a cheap version as they want to make it part of their "Pro" line. The new MBA is set to still be their entry-level laptop, though.
Other expected news would be the yearly iMac update and the new iPad Pro models happening at the same time. And they have promised a new modular Mac Pro for 2019.
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I'm willing to pay a lot for pretty much anything if I like it. I like gadgets and stuff that has some kind of 'cool factor', so high prices don't scare me.
Problem is, I never understood what Apple gives me for the price. Same thing with phones, laptops and desktops.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@cvi Pointer towards the usual notice about "actual free space is less due to OS and preinstalled apps". But the interpretation of them being square-gigabytes is better I agree. Just wait until the next model brings out the cube-gigabytes!
Announcing....the iBusco!
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@admiral_p said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
even the better cameras are sort of a luxury
And aren't all that great by the standards of phones. Other firms have better optics and sensors and better price points, and that's the core of what's needed.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@blek Oh, I should do that with the 512GB Xs Max.
1,978.44 USD
18399 SEK -> $2048
So, uh, not just insanely expensive from the start, it's about 40% more expensive in Sweden on top of that. Ouch.
Swedish prices, like Czech ones and everywhere else in the EU are including VAT, but US prices are usually excluding the sales tax. That explains about half the difference…
@admiral_p said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I fail to see the value proposition with iPhones.
It is a status symbol. Somebody shows off with insanely overpriced shirt from Versace, somebody has insanely overpriced phone from Apple.
@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
That also looks like such a weird marketing decision to me. "We're selling less phones, so let's make them more expensive to make the same amount of money." But what about the App Store then? Wouldn't less sold iPhones lead to less market share meaning less revenue from sales there?
There is somewhat well known example of a wrist-watch maker (
looking up the name; IIRC it was in Germany) who was making pretty good and relatively cheap watches. But the sales were low. So they increased the price. A lot; like 10 times. The number sold increased (and the profit obviously did so massively). Because wrist-watches is another such item that people are willing to buy for insane price just to show off they can afford it.
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@Bulb said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@blek Oh, I should do that with the 512GB Xs Max.
1,978.44 USD
18399 SEK -> $2048
So, uh, not just insanely expensive from the start, it's about 40% more expensive in Sweden on top of that. Ouch.
Swedish prices, like Czech ones and everywhere else in the EU are including VAT, but US prices are usually excluding the sales tax. That explains about half the difference…
Where I live, sales tax is ~7%. That puts the cheapest one at $801.43 and the most expensive one at $1550.43.
Still a far cry from $2048.
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@Bulb said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
There is somewhat well known example of a wrist-watch maker ( looking up the name; IIRC it was in Germany) who was making pretty good and relatively cheap watches. But the sales were low. So they increased the price. A lot; like 10 times. The number sold increased (and the profit obviously did so massively). Because wrist-watches is another such item that people are willing to buy for insane price just to show off they can afford it.
My Dad made leathergoods, including hand made handbags. One would take him a week of work but he was never that interested in making loads of money so only sold them for about £50. This stuck him right in the range where they were too expensive for people who just wanted a cheap bag, but about an order of magnitude less than what people want to spend on a bespoke, hand made bag from a craftsman who lives in the middle of nowhere, so he hardly sold any
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@Bulb said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@blek Oh, I should do that with the 512GB Xs Max.
1,978.44 USD
18399 SEK -> $2048
So, uh, not just insanely expensive from the start, it's about 40% more expensive in Sweden on top of that. Ouch.
Swedish prices, like Czech ones and everywhere else in the EU are including VAT, but US prices are usually excluding the sales tax. That explains about half the difference…
@admiral_p said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I fail to see the value proposition with iPhones.
It is a status symbol. Somebody shows off with insanely overpriced shirt from Versace, somebody has insanely overpriced phone from Apple.
Apple stuff has always been high margin, but it used to be that Apple stuff had something going on, compared to Android phones. First it was design, then it was apps, then the camera. The only thing they have going on today is a better SoC, but that's not that significant anymore.
@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
That also looks like such a weird marketing decision to me. "We're selling less phones, so let's make them more expensive to make the same amount of money." But what about the App Store then? Wouldn't less sold iPhones lead to less market share meaning less revenue from sales there?
There is somewhat well known example of a wrist-watch maker (
looking up the name; IIRC it was in Germany) who was making pretty good and relatively cheap watches. But the sales were low. So they increased the price. A lot; like 10 times. The number sold increased (and the profit obviously did so massively). Because wrist-watches is another such item that people are willing to buy for insane price just to show off they can afford it.Watches are "useless" though. At this point, they are close to pure luxury. Smartphones are tools. It's a different market. You can do the status symbol thingie but the order of magnitude in sales is much different. You can only go up in luxury (more or less), commodities are different. Plus that watchmaker, you said it, was small and became big. Apple is big but it's getting smaller in terms of market share. That's why I think they're accepting of selling less and earning even more per phone. They're not getting bigger, they are trying to maintain their size. And they're very probably working on their next bet.
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@Jaloopa said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Bulb said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
There is somewhat well known example of a wrist-watch maker ( looking up the name; IIRC it was in Germany) who was making pretty good and relatively cheap watches. But the sales were low. So they increased the price. A lot; like 10 times. The number sold increased (and the profit obviously did so massively). Because wrist-watches is another such item that people are willing to buy for insane price just to show off they can afford it.
My Dad made leathergoods, including hand made handbags. One would take him a week of work but he was never that interested in making loads of money so only sold them for about £50. This stuck him right in the range where they were too expensive for people who just wanted a cheap bag, but about an order of magnitude less than what people want to spend on a bespoke, hand made bag from a craftsman who lives in the middle of nowhere, so he hardly sold any
@Bulb the technical term for this is Veblen Good
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@Benjamin-Hall
EuroVAT is typically in the 20%+ range, so it is half the difference for them
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@dkf said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
Yeah, I totally wanna pay a 4-digit number for a device I carry around in a pocket all day, putting it at a high risk of getting damaged.
It's part of their programme of making people happier to purchase Samsungs instead, and so restore the exclusivity of the Apple brand.
The battery capacity and safety remains a major concern for Samsung phones, and it takes time to heal.
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@izzion said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Benjamin-Hall
EuroVAT is typically in the 20%+ range, so it is half the difference for them
7% is not half of 20%. More like 1/3.
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@admiral_p said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
Apple apparently wants to move into services (which makes sense). They'll have to accept opening up though for this.
I dunno. If anyone can figure out how to do it without opening up, it'll be Apple...
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@izzion said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Benjamin-Hall
EuroVAT is typically in the 20%+ range, so it is half the difference for themThe other half is largely related to the need to offer 2 year warranties by default; shorter warranties are illegal for devices of that class with that sort of price (a decision based on general consumer protection law, and I think one that got nailed totally by the courts long before Apple started selling phones).
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@Benjamin-Hall
20% being half of 40% - the difference between "Apple listed" retail and Euroretail.
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@izzion said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Benjamin-Hall
20% being half of 40% - the difference between "Apple listed" retail and Euroretail.Ahh. I see.
I guess that import tariffs are the other half
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@Benjamin-Hall said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I guess that import tariffs are the other half
Why? The EU isn't in a trade war with China.
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@dkf said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@Benjamin-Hall said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I guess that import tariffs are the other half
Why? The EU isn't in a trade war with China.
Just trying to troll here, pay no mind.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
And then in a month we can see if Google will try doing the same thing with the Pixel 3 and match the insane overprice, or do the sane thing and go in the affordable direction again. Give me a proper Nexus 5X successor! Sub-$500 with decent hardware and timely updates.
I finally switched from a very aging Galaxy S5 where the screen literally melted this summer probably thanks in a big way to an extended battery I bought to a refurb Pixel (1) and I love it. Cost me all of $200 for a 128GB model, and I just recently got upgraded to Android 9 (Pie) and I'm currently only using 25% of my storage (was always out of space before). Seems like battery usage is quite a lot better in 9 as well.
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The way I see it, someone at Apple who is a Warhammer fan has been playing the long game: they knew it would only take a few months after the X to produce an offering to Slanesh, Chaos God of Excess.
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@dangeRuss One option that I have considered is getting a Pixel 2 if the price drops drastically after the release of Pixel 3, and there's no good Pixel 3 offering. Another option is keeping my 5X for another year and staying a version behind the latest.
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
It's like Apple saw the people going "Fuck, the iPhone X is pricey!" and went "Hold my beer!".
Yeah, someone posted a screenshot of phone pricing over the years (I think) showing how the number just keeps going up, and I thought to myself, "man, I thought shit was supposed to get smaller, faster, and cheaper over the years... Where did we go so wrong?!?"
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
@dangeRuss One option that I have considered is getting a Pixel 2 if the price drops drastically after the release of Pixel 3, and there's no good Pixel 3 offering. Another option is keeping my 5X for another year and staying a version behind the latest.
I really don't see a reason for me to upgrade to Pixel 2 right now. I may feel different a year from now when my battery barely holds any charge since it's not user replaceable, but right now the phone does everything I need.
Also comes with unlimited photo backups to google drive.
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@dangeRuss said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I may feel different a year from now when my battery barely holds any charge since it's not user replaceable
Doesn't seem that hard to do
And a new battery is about $15
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@Atazhaia said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
Another option is keeping my 5X for another year and staying a version behind the latest.
I've got a 3-year-old iPhone 6S that's going as well as it did when new. It's the first phone I've had which I didn't want/need to upgrade as soon as the contract was up.
I could upgrade to an 8 but it offers little over the 6S and while I think the X looks good, it's expensive and it looks easier to break than the 6S.
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@dangeRuss said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
Also comes with unlimited photo backups to google drive.
That one is pretty much open to all unless you have a very good sensor - as long as your pictures are below 16MP in resolution you get unlimited storage. The phones with a sensor above 16MP are quite rare.
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@Rhywden said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
pictures are below 16MP in resolution you get unlimited storage
Huh, they must have changed that since the last time I checked. Previously it was like 2MP.
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@MrL said in The iPhone XS (will) Max (out your credit card):
I'm willing to pay a lot for pretty much anything if I like it. I like gadgets and stuff that has some kind of 'cool factor', so high prices don't scare me.
Even then, there are limits. I'm not interested in an iDevice from the get go, but when things get into the €1000 range, there need to be some solid reasons. And we're talking about a smart phone that goes for up to almost twice that depending on where you are. That would require a lot of very convincing reasons, even if I actually liked the thing.
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Tim Cook on iPhone Prices: 'We Want to Serve Everyone'
At an event in Cupertino yesterday, Apple announced three new iPhone models: the iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, and iPhone XR. Prices for the iPhones...
Commenting on this price range in an interview with Nikkei today, Apple CEO Tim Cook said, "We want to serve everyone." Apple introduced the iPhone XR at a cheaper price point so that customers who wanted the advantages of the iPhone X line -- Face ID, an edge-to-edge screen -- could find them on a lower-cost iPhone.
"We want to serve everyone," Cook said in an interview with Nikkei. "We understand that there is a wide range of what customers are looking for and a wide range of prices that people will pay."
Discussing the iPhone in general, Cook says that, "The role of the iPhone has become much larger in people's lives," and that will justify the price of the devices for many customers.
