Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling
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@Magus man...who sets a videogame in Belgium?
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
[video link]
Just wait until people realize that TCG themselves are gambling.
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@xaade Everyone knows they are, but at least the cards have intrinsic value, and you can resell them. You never "lose" in a sense. You always lose with loot boxes.
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@boomzilla said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@Magus man...who sets a videogame in Belgium?
Aren't there any WWI video games?
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@mott555 said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
Aren't there any WWI video games?
I'm pretty sure Battlefield 1 has like a dozen maps and still manages to put none of them in Belgium.
What happens if you're a Belgiumian and have unopened loot boxes? Do you just get fucked?
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@blakeyrat said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
What happens if you're a Belgiumian and have unopened loot boxes? Do you just get fucked?
You're in Belgium, you're already fucked
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@blakeyrat said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
What happens if you're a Belgiumian and have unopened loot boxes? Do you just get fucked?
Because you can't buy with real money a thing that you can still unlock by playing the game? I doubt it.
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Without watching the video, I assume Belgium officially ruled loot boxes as gambling. That does not mean loot boxes are gambling, it just means that Belgium thinks they're gambling.
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@pie_flavor Belgium is correct. And their opinion is worth more than yours.
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@pie_flavor said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
That does not mean loot boxes are gambling
If loot boxes are not gambling, neither is a lottery ticket
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor Belgium is correct. And their opinion is worth more than yours.
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I didn't watch the video yet - but are they somewhat okay with Hearthstone because you can always turn any card into dust and you can't turn stuff from loot boxes except duplicates into in game currency? [I haven't played Heroes of the Storm or Overwatch in so long - I assume you can't just turn skins and cosmetics you don't want into a currency unless it is a dupe?]
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@Lathun Dunno. All I know is that the ones in Overwatch and HotS are officially, legally gambling now.
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@TimeBandit said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
That does not mean loot boxes are gambling
If loot boxes are not gambling, neither is a lottery ticket
With a lottery ticket, you either
- lose
or
- get something you can put back into gambling
. With loot boxes you get neither.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@xaade Everyone knows they are, but at least the cards have intrinsic value, and you can resell them. You never "lose" in a sense. You always lose with loot boxes.
So, all they have to do is give players the option to trade what they get from loot boxes. Then the items will have intrinsic value.
Before you say they're just virtual, patents can be sold, so abstract stuff can have value.
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@TimeBandit said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
You're in Belgium, you're already fucked
Paging @Luhmann to confirm for purposes…
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@xaade said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
So, all they have to do is give players the option to trade what they get from loot boxes. Then the items will have intrinsic value.
This would be OK, except it'd be gambling with a potential for money laundering, and would thus be regulated very closely in many jurisdictions.
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@dkf
I know I am!
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@Lathun Dunno. All I know is that the ones in Overwatch and HotS are officially, legally gambling now.
In one country.
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@pie_flavor I'm pretty sure they aren't the first to ban lootboxes. Just the first one to make you angry by banning lootboxes you like. By the most ragingly evil corporation there is.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor I'm pretty sure they aren't the first to ban lootboxes. Just the first one to make you angry by banning lootboxes you like. By the most ragingly evil corporation there is.
I don't care who the corporation is, I just care what the game is.
And yeah, the Netherlands banned them becauseIt said the content of these loot boxes was determined by chance and, crucially, the prizes could be traded outside of the game. Therefore, the prizes have a market value. []
which is not true of Overwatch.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor I'm pretty sure they aren't the first to ban lootboxes. Just the first one to make you angry by banning lootboxes you like. By the most ragingly evil corporation there is.
You made EA sad...
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@Onyx said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor I'm pretty sure they aren't the first to ban lootboxes. Just the first one to make you angry by banning lootboxes you like. By the most ragingly evil corporation there is.
You made EA sad...
There's still rootkit-Sony...
Surely, that only goes for gaming companies, anyway. Otherwise, we still have Oracle.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
Just the first one to make you angry by banning lootboxes you like. By the most ragingly evil corporation there is.
It's a fucking video game.
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@xaade No, it's a shooting video game. Most of the fucking ones are much more Japanese
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@dkf said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@xaade said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
So, all they have to do is give players the option to trade what they get from loot boxes. Then the items will have intrinsic value.
This would be OK, except it'd be gambling with a potential for money laundering, and would thus be regulated very closely in many jurisdictions.
Then.... physical TCG would have a potential for money laundering too?
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@Onyx I honestly don't know that they're quite on Activision's level.
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@xaade said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@dkf said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@xaade said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
So, all they have to do is give players the option to trade what they get from loot boxes. Then the items will have intrinsic value.
This would be OK, except it'd be gambling with a potential for money laundering, and would thus be regulated very closely in many jurisdictions.
Then.... physical TCG would have a potential for money laundering too?
I would say yes, except that the logistics are far more complicated than digital "goods".
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@JBert said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@xaade said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@dkf said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@xaade said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
So, all they have to do is give players the option to trade what they get from loot boxes. Then the items will have intrinsic value.
This would be OK, except it'd be gambling with a potential for money laundering, and would thus be regulated very closely in many jurisdictions.
Then.... physical TCG would have a potential for money laundering too?
I would say yes, except that the logistics are far more complicated than digital "goods".
Stepping back.
I don't see loot boxes as being as problematic as gambling. Not any more than a hoarder collecting useless trinkets.
I think a big push against loot boxes tends to be the disparity between players that can afford them and players that cannot. It ruins the fun for people who don't want to sink tons of money into the game.
So, I think people are confusing motives here, and they'll pulled the wrong people in to solve the problem. Meaning, they're going to regret it when the government leverages this to regulate games more and more.
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@xaade The problem with loot boxes is this:
In a game with microtransactions, even paid ones, you normally have the chance to buy what you want. It may be expensive, but if you want it, you can buy it.
In a game that goes for the lootbox method, especially if it disallows direct purchases, you aren't going to get what you want without paying substantially more money. This is on purpose, because the people selling them want to make more money.
The problem happens when you don't get what you want. The impulse to just put $10 more into it is exactly the same as gambling addiction.
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@Magus So? No-one's forced to pay for loot boxes.
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@loopback0 No one is forced to spend money at a casino either. Casinos are just heavily regulated, because that gambling impulse ruins lives.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@xaade The problem with loot boxes is this:
In a game with microtransactions, even paid ones, you normally have the chance to buy what you want. It may be expensive, but if you want it, you can buy it.
In a game that goes for the lootbox method, especially if it disallows direct purchases, you aren't going to get what you want without paying substantially more money. This is on purpose, because the people selling them want to make more money.
The problem happens when you don't get what you want. The impulse to just put $10 more into it is exactly the same as gambling addiction.
No.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@loopback0 No one is forced to spend money at a casino either. Casinos are just heavily regulated, because that gambling impulse ruins lives.
People feel compelled to gamble because what they win has a monetary value. Overwatch cosmetics have no monetary value.
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@pie_flavor Yes.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor Yes.
I'm glad you agree with me.
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@pie_flavor said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
People feel compelled to gamble because what they win has a monetary value. Overwatch cosmetics have no monetary value.
Citation please?
Because you'll need to do a lot of work to prove that this is completely harmless when people report feeling this way about it.
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@Magus I can do even better - I can quote a post I already made and that you forgot to respond to.
@pie_flavor said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
And yeah, the Netherlands banned them because
It said the content of these loot boxes was determined by chance and, crucially, the prizes could be traded outside of the game. Therefore, the prizes have a market value. []
which is not true of Overwatch.
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@Magus Loot boxes always give you something though. Whether that's what you want or not is no different to grinding WoW to get a specific mount or weapon which may or may not drop, you're just replacing time with money.
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@pie_flavor You can quote yourself all you want. Your singular opinion means nothing if there is at least one person who feels gambling compulsions as a result of loot boxes.
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@loopback0 The problem isn't the reward. The problem is the compulsion. Which is no less because the loot is digital. And with money, unlike time, someone can spend it all in a weekend and have their life ruined.
Admittedly either one is nice for the developer, as long as they're raking in money from you, but you can bet the compulsion to spend quickly makes them grin from ear to ear.
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BTW I like the "even you" in the subject line as if Activision/Blizzard is some paragon of good behavior.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
And with money, unlike time, someone can spend it all in a weekend and have their life ruined.
People can, and have, spent too much time and ruined their lives playing games.
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@blakeyrat It was more to poke fun at the guy here who believes that they are in fact paragons of virtue who are just adding loot boxes to make their customers' lives better.
This is a real person's real opinion. In 2018.
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@loopback0 Yes. They haven't died from old age from being 16 in a single weekend, though.
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@Magus said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
@pie_flavor You can quote yourself all you want. Your singular opinion means nothing if there is at least one person who feels gambling compulsions as a result of loot boxes.
You're calling it my singular opinion when I was literally citing the Netherlands' opinion.
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Blah, blah, Activision can do no wrong, business practices specifically designed to make people make unhealthy decisions are for the best of users. Did I get that right?
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@Magus They haven't gone from being a millionaire to a pauper in a single weekend with loot boxes.
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@loopback0 said in Well done, Blizzard, even *you* are officially promoting gambling:
They haven't gone from being a millionaire to a pauper in a single weekend with loot boxes.
Who? Activision/Blizzard?