Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!)
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@pie_flavor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates is this where I use the word 'contribute' in a snappy retort involving declaring I fucked your mother?
Yes.
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A case study for speed limits:
Take two roads near where I live.
Road 1, Bell Shoals Road, is a 2-lane, no shoulder, no sidewalk country road with lots of trees, hidden driveways, hidden roadways without stop signs (on the main road), schools, churches, etc. The speed limit? 35 mph.
Road 2, S. Falkenburg Road, is a 4-lane (with center turn lane) road with shoulders, sidewalks, no trees near the street, no houses directly adjoining it, and only a few exits to subdivisions, all with good sight lines. Most of it (the highlighted part) has a speed limit of 45 mph. The circled section (which is no different in quality than the rest), has a 35 mph speed limit. It's not due to the school, there's a separate school zone (with lights) for that, and the other roads near the school are 45 despite being narrower and poorer visibility.
The big difference? Those subdivisions by the school (marked Pavilion) are super hoity-toity.
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And this street (in my home town) is a four-lane, center-turn-lane road through the commercial district. Good sidewalks, no trees, lots of stop lights. Speed limit? 25 mph. Goes up to 35 once it enters a residential district and gets smaller. Goes up to 45 once it gets more rural, but still heavily residential.
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Someone going 70 or 75 in a 55 during light traffic and ideal conditions, who's staying in lane and not swerving or tailgating is not someone I'd call an asshole.
Then you're part of the problem.
Fascinating. As it happens, I see the John Nestors of the world as the problem.
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
The police and the public have arrived at a workaround: in general, people drive at speeds they feel comfortable, and the police stay lax in their enforcement, focusing on drivers who are actually a threat to safety.
It's cute you believe that.
It's a belief that is supported by my experiences. Surely if it were such an egregious offense, more people would get pulled over and fined so heavily that nobody would ever speed, right?
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Better to not ever exceed the speed limit, then! Stick to 25 MPH and you're in the clear!
You're arguing in bad faith.
Well, you seemed deeply concerned about never exceeding the speed limit and the increased stopping distances that come with higher velocities, so I thought I had come up with a clever solution to those conundrums. Is there a problem with my proposal?
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
driving the speed limit increases the risk of driving
How so? Seems like people get in their cars and drive regardless of whatever the speed limits are.
There's plenty that shows excess speed and careless driving (which are heavily causation'd) do. So, enjoy pretending that you aren't engaging in risky behavior because you selfishly want to go fast.
Have you ever been to a dragstrip? I've seen plenty of people cross the traps around 150-200MPH. Some of them were on bikes or snowmobiles. One false move at those speeds makes the driver very dead. In addition to having balls of steel, the drivers you'll find there are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet and are anything but careless.
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@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Someone going 70 or 75 in a 55 during light traffic and ideal conditions, who's staying in lane and not swerving or tailgating is not someone I'd call an asshole.
Then you're part of the problem.
Fascinating. As it happens, I see the John Nestors of the world as the problem.
I love that you know that reference.
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@polygeekery said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Someone going 70 or 75 in a 55 during light traffic and ideal conditions, who's staying in lane and not swerving or tailgating is not someone I'd call an asshole.
Then you're part of the problem.
Fascinating. As it happens, I see the John Nestors of the world as the problem.
I love that you know that reference.
Well, what can I say? We as a community tend to have the same flamewars over and over again, so I keep track of the best talking points each time for the next time around.
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@groaner did I introduce you to John Nestor or did you know of him before that?
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@boomzilla said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Yes, keep denying reality and see how well that works out for you.
Says the person ignoring facts.
Umm..no. However, as I was on mobile I didn't bother looking up the accident stats and I admittedly was of a bit there, but at least I'm not a hazard to navigation on the roads.
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@polygeekery said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@groaner did I introduce you to John Nestor or did you know of him before that?
Option A.
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@benjamin-hall said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
And this street (in my home town) is a four-lane, center-turn-lane road through the commercial district. Good sidewalks, no trees, lots of stop lights. Speed limit? 25 mph.
It's quite common for roads through commercial districts to be lower speed, as they have a much higher incidence of turning traffic (not including at the stop lights), pedestrians just stepping out, etc. You might argue that that ought to not be the case given the provision of lights, crosswalks, parking lots, and so on, but the increased “odd things happening” level exists and so you keep the speed down to make as many incidents as possible be minor ones.
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@polygeekery said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
John Nestor
Huh. TIL.
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@lolwhat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@pleegwat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
They seem to basically indicate how fast the traffic ~100 meters ahead is actually going (50, 70, or 90 km/h).
We have these signs instead:
They do the job pretty well.
Do you really need a dynamic sign for that?
- 9 miles ==> 10 minutes
- 15 miles ==> 16 minutes
- ...
- n miles ==> n+1 minutes
Just hard code it on the sign
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@bjolling Not sure if serious...
The travel time depends on speed, and the speed depends on traffic conditions. During heavy traffic (e.g., commute time), the travel time could well be 2x, 3x, or even more, the normal time. The signs are updated dynamically to reflect the time given the current traffic conditions.
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@hardwaregeek Exactly.
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@bjolling said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
9 miles ==> 10 minutes
That seems slow. Why would 9 miles on a highway take more than 7 minutes to drive, at least not unless there's heavy congestion?
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@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
That seems slow. Why would 9 miles on a highway take more than 7 minutes to drive, at least not unless there's heavy congestion?
Assuming a 70 MPH speed limit (which could very well be lower), and that I can math, should be a minimum of 7.7 minutes.
9 miles in 10 minutes works out to 55 MPH. The traffic does look reasonably congested in the picture, so it could be kept down because of that, or it could just be a 55 MPH zone.
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@unperverted-vixen said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Assuming a 70 MPH speed limit
Whoosh.
“I was just using an AI-driven robot to ‘keep up with traffic’, officer.”
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@remi said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@steve_the_cynic said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Well, it's a trope because it's real.
I know we're not in the garage, but do you 'murricans realize how corrupt and dysfunctional your police is?
Mrs Cynic was well aware of it. That query doesn't apply to me because I'm Right-Pondian in origin.
Of course, the same question can be asked regarding the police in just about every country in the world, but since the context of the question is "'murricans", I'll pass, since I'm not one.
I've now got a new classification of speed cameras:
Small fault in that line of argument. You have a serious error of temporal context. The police that Mrs Cynic described would have been doing all this in the years around 1980, when speed cameras were very much not yet a thing.
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@unperverted-vixen said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
9 miles in 10 minutes works out to 55 MPH. The traffic does look reasonably congested in the picture, so it could be kept down because of that, or it could just be a 55 MPH zone.
Where do you live that the traffic in that picture looks congested? Certainly not round Boston, that's for sure.
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@steve_the_cynic Southeastern Michigan.
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@bjolling Welcome back!
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@dkf
Interstate speed limits around & through Indianapolis are 55.Driving less than 70 on the bypass (except during high traffic periods, when traffic jams up) greatly increases your chance of getting dead.
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@izzion Ooh, you're just baiting Lorne, aren't you?
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@izzion I think you guys ought to stop telling so many lies with speed limits.
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@unperverted-vixen said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
it could just be a 55 MPH zone
Yep, most of the interstates in Indy's near vicinity have 55 MPH limits. Of course, when there's no congestion, most people drive at least 15 over.
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@hardwaregeek
Now, now, everyone knows it's not polite to practice Master Baiting in a public thread. We keep that behavior to the garage...
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@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@izzion I think you guys ought to stop telling so many lies with speed limits.
But but but SPEEDING IS UNSAAAAAAAAFE! (Also, the cops need a reliable revenue stream to fully fund their salaries, benefits and pensions, right?)
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@dkf
The best lie told on I-465 was the project titled "Accelerate 465"...INDOT completed an $800 million project called Accelerate 465 to refurbish and reconfigure the original west leg of the loop between July 2007 and December 2012.
Somehow, after all that Acceleration, the speed limit was still.... 55
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@lolwhat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
(Also, the cops need a reliable revenue stream to fully fund their salaries, benefits and pensions, right?)
You let the cops keep the fines?
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@hardwaregeek said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@bjolling Not sure if serious...
It's an inside joke between me and myself. From time to time, I have to size and estimate things, being responsible for several DEV teams nowadays. Using simple statistics usually gets the job done fast and accurately enough. In this case: if speed of traffic is stable enough, hard-coding the time delay might be accurate enough and will have a much better ROI :)
Yes, dear business person, I can give you a dynamic sign - that will take us 2 weeks to deliver. But if I can just paint the numbers on, you can have it by tomorrow morning...
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Sure... I'll send Rick over right away with a can of paint.
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@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
You let the cops keep the fines?
In much of the Land of the Free, speeding fines go into government accounts. The more money that comes in, the more that can be spent on whatever the government damn well pleases.
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@lolwhat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
You let the cops keep the fines?
In much of the Land of the F
ree, speeding fines go into government accounts. The more money that comes in, the more that can be spent on whatever the government damn well pleases.
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@izzion said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@dkf
The best lie told on I-465 was the project titled "Accelerate 465"...INDOT completed an $800 million project called Accelerate 465 to refurbish and reconfigure the original west leg of the loop between July 2007 and December 2012.
Somehow, after all that Acceleration, the speed limit was still.... 55
Are you able to drive at least 55 more often?
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@boomzilla
No idea, I’m not an actual local, I just like to make fun of them from the safe remove of the second largest city of the state, which has its interstate safely off to one side of town, which I can ignore because I don’t interact with it. (And yes, the interstate here snarls up like crazy during rushes too. Though we at least have a sane speed limit of 65.)
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@izzion you mean to say there's another city in Indiana?
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@boomzilla
Depends on how stringent you want to be with the definition of city.I prefer to think of Fort Wayne as a small town with actual Internet, though some of the downtown and southern neighborhoods do have traffic, crime, and socioeconomic stats that line up with actual cities.
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@boomzilla said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@izzion said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@dkf
The best lie told on I-465 was the project titled "Accelerate 465"...INDOT completed an $800 million project called Accelerate 465 to refurbish and reconfigure the original west leg of the loop between July 2007 and December 2012.
Somehow, after all that Acceleration, the speed limit was still.... 55
Are you able to drive at least 55 more often?
Sammy Hagar - I Can't Drive 55 – 04:42
— SammyHagarVEVO
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@boomzilla said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@izzion you mean to say there's another city in Indiana?
If I weren't on mobile and at work, I'd find and post a YouTube clip of "Gary, Indiana" from The Music Man.
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I drive at least two seconds behind. Even at 65. Because any closer and physics + reaction time means I won't be able to stop in an emergency (let alone having the visual sight line to see 30 seconds ahead). The space doesn't instantly get filled because most of those assjoles are weaving in and out of traffic at 75 in the left lane.
My employer put cameras in all of the company vehicles, and the company that's reviewing the camera footage has a policy of a four-second following distance, which I think is fucking stupid.
@dcon said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
We wish. Every one around them will just curse at them, swerve sharply in front, possibly tap (or press firmly) their brakes.
If they pull in less than a second ahead, I'm going to hit the brakes and slow down. Probably set off my vehicle's camera, but at least then the short video clip that it captures actually shows the asshole cutting me off and shows that I was reacting to try to regain my following distance, rather than just showing me following too closely.
@remi said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I see that stupid argument so often, I have to answer even if it's an old-ish post. If you slow down to 63 and another car that zips into the space you've made, how fast do you think that other car is going? 63 or faster? If it's going 63, how did it go past you to get to the gap? If it's going faster (say, 65 like the first car that filled the gap and caused you to slow down to 63 in the first place), then you know what? You're already going slower than them and the gap that you created in the first place will create itself again.
It won't, because once you're going slower than the flow of traffic, everyone wants to get around you. And when they do, they don't leave enough space when they pull in front of you, so you're stuck in a cycle of trying to get more following distance with other cars constantly cutting in front of you too closely. There is simply no way for everyone to drive the speed limit with the required amount of following distance; the highway doesn't even have the capacity to support it. Drivers start packing in tighter with shorter following distances in order to try to avoid slowing down as much as would otherwise be needed.
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Second corollary: If you have to brake SHARPLY, not only are you speeding and tailgating, but also driving dangerously.
Or someone cut me off. See above.
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
If only there were some way for a regulating body to scientifically determine that speed, and then distribute the results to all drives in a clear & unambiguous fashion.
Indeed. The US Department of Transportation's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) states: (section 2B.13)
When a speed limit within a speed zone is posted, it should be within 5 mph of the 85th-percentile speed of free-flowing traffic.
In other words, in normal free-flowing traffic, the speed limit should be posted so that the fastest 15% or so drivers are speeding.
...but this is "guidance", not "regulation", so agencies are free to set speed limits however they desire. I'd wager that the vast majority of speed limits are set significantly lower than the "85th percentile speed of free-flowing traffic".
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
No, you were not told to "go faster". You were told "Hey buddy, I need to get past you. I'm not going to turn on my sirens and lights, because then you'll panic thinking I'm pulling you over. You'll probably panic so much that you'll try to stop, which is dangerous, or will smash into this barrier. I know you can't go faster, and I know you can't pull off. This is my message to you-- as soon as possible, get out of my way."
Nah, when cops want to tell you that, they just fucking turn the siren on all the way. You pull over, and they continue merrily on their way. They don't give a shit whether you loose your bowels because you think you're getting pulled over.
If they just buzz you, they want you to get out of the way so that they can go faster. Like him, I wouldn't go much faster in order to do that, but there's not much that you can do otherwise if the right lane is packed full, unless they decide to flip the lights and siren on for reals to get you out of the way.
@bjolling said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@hardwaregeek said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@bjolling Not sure if serious...
It's an inside joke between me and myself. From time to time, I have to size and estimate things, being responsible for several DEV teams nowadays. Using simple statistics usually gets the job done fast and accurately enough. In this case: if speed of traffic is stable enough, hard-coding the time delay might be accurate enough and will have a much better ROI :)
Yes, dear business person, I can give you a dynamic sign - that will take us 2 weeks to deliver. But if I can just paint the numbers on, you can have it by tomorrow morning...
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Sure... I'll send Rick over right away with a can of paint.
Then why bother even having a sign? People already know how long it normally takes to drive that stretch.
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@hardwaregeek said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@boomzilla said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@izzion you mean to say there's another city in Indiana?
If I weren't on mobile and at work, I'd find and post a YouTube clip of "Gary, Indiana" from The Music Man.
Gary Indiana-The Music Man – 01:02
— niley4eva2012You're welcome.
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@anotherusername said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
People already know how long it normally takes to drive that stretch.
Locals do if they drive it regularly. That's not everyone…
Our signs for that sort of thing tend to say something like “J31 17 miles 21 minutes” (so “oh crap, we've got awful traffic ahead”) which is readable by both regulars and out-of-towners.
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@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Our signs for that sort of thing tend to say something like “J31 17 miles 21 minutes” (so “oh crap, we've got awful traffic ahead”) which is readable by both regulars and out-of-towners.
"17 miles 21 minutes" seems like pretty mild traffic. "8 miles 35 minutes" is getting pretty bad, though.
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@boomzilla said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
"17 miles 21 minutes" seems like pretty mild traffic. "8 miles 35 minutes" is getting pretty bad, though.
I guess. It's still 50% over what I'd expect for free-flowing.
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@anotherusername said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@remi said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I see that stupid argument so often, I have to answer even if it's an old-ish post. If you slow down to 63 and another car that zips into the space you've made, how fast do you think that other car is going? 63 or faster? If it's going 63, how did it go past you to get to the gap? If it's going faster (say, 65 like the first car that filled the gap and caused you to slow down to 63 in the first place), then you know what? You're already going slower than them and the gap that you created in the first place will create itself again.
It won't, because once you're going slower than the flow of traffic, everyone wants to get around you. And when they do, they don't leave enough space when they pull in front of you, so you're stuck in a cycle of trying to get more following distance with other cars constantly cutting in front of you too closely.
Which, as I said, happens naturally because you are already going slower than them. Yes, as soon as a large enough gap forms in front of you, someone will get into it. But they are going faster than you, they will naturally pull away and reform the gap. You might not get exactly the safety distance, but you will get a safer distance than by driving exactly at the same speed than everyone. Seriously, just try it and see, it kind of works.
There is simply no way for everyone to drive the speed limit with the required amount of following distance; the highway doesn't even have the capacity to support it.
Yes, the speed limit isn't suited to very dense traffic, which is also why you get variable speed limits in places. A lower limit does allow to keep the traffic fluid -- and also safer since in addition to reducing the speed people are trying to get, it reduces the amount of jerk.
Which is another way to see what I'm saying: if there is no official variable speed limit, you can individually get to a more fluid and safer traffic by doing it yourself. Of course not by driving 20 mph slower than the rest of the traffic, but just a tiny bit helps at least your safety.
Drivers start packing in tighter with shorter following distances in order to try to avoid slowing down as much as would otherwise be needed.
In other words, they'd rather drive more dangerously than a tiny bit slower. Do that if you want, but don't claim it is the only possible way to drive.
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@remi you appear to think that the speed limit somehow controls how fast traffic moves. Even when there isn't a cop or a speed camera.
'Round here, people slow down when they see a cop or know there's a speed trap up ahead.
Anyway, highway design standards are not written under the assumption that people will drive the speed limit just because it's the speed limit; they are written under the assumption that traffic will naturally travel at some natural speed regardless of what the speed limit is, and they say that the speed limit should depend on the natural speed of traffic rather than the other way round. I realize that this completely flips the "people naturally want to drive too fast and the speed limit should force them to slow down" way of thinking. And yes, if the highway lacks adequate capacity, people tend to drive way too closely together, but really if all of the traffic slowed down and kept larger following distances the problem would be greatly exacerbated since the throughput capacity of an already-insufficient highway would be reduced even further.
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@anotherusername You appear to think that driving as fast as you technically can is the best way to drive safely. I can't convince otherwise, but I'll let you do that and in the meantime, I will enjoy arriving at the same destination about 2 min later (if that...) than you, after a much less stressful and much safer trip.
All this has nothing to do with the actual legal speed limit, but really with the comfortable and safe speed limit. In some cases the two match, but when the traffic is heavy, this is rarely the case (except sometimes variable limits, but not always). In no situation will driving as fast as possible while leaving no safety distance be a safe speed limit.
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@remi said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
You appear to think that driving as fast as you safely can is technically the best way to drive.
You got that in the wrong order, but don't worry. I've fixed it for you.
But hey, don't take my word for it. Like I said, official guidelines for highway design say that the speed limit should generally be set to the 85th percentile speed. It should seem too fast to the majority of drivers -- 85 percent or so should voluntarily, naturally, drive at or below the speed limit.
The safest speed is the prevalent speed. Studies have proven that driving 15 under the prevalent speed is just as likely to cause accidents as driving 15 over is -- regardless of what the speed limit is.