The Official Status Thread
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@cartman82 said in The Official Status Thread:
who knows which one is producing the noise.
Put a finger in it (one fan at a time) to stop it.
Your finger will probably hurt, but you'll know which one is the culprit
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@timebandit
Paper clips or pencils or sometimes even pipe cleaners work better :themoreyouknow.gif:
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@izzion I use a screwdriver for this. But I wanted him to learn the hard way
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@timebandit
How dare you attempt to injure our Lord and Savior, the Bringer of the Fruits! :pitchfork:
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@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Well, whatever character Putty sends when you press Return.
That's a CR; it gets reinterpreted as other things by the terminal emulation system at the other end.
Wait, why the fuck? Unless you're connected to an old Mac or another instance of PuTTY, what could possibly be expecting CR as the EOL? And that's not even right. The PuTTY doc says:
Unlike most other remote login protocols, the Telnet protocol has a special ‘new line’ code that is not the same as the usual line endings of Control-M or Control-J. By default, PuTTY sends the Telnet New Line code when you press Return, instead of sending Control-M as it does in most other protocols.
Except, if they're using a bare CR, this is patently wrong, because the Telnet spec says:
The Telnet protocol defines the sequence CR LF to mean "end- of-line". For terminal input, this corresponds to a command- completion or "end-of-line" key being pressed on a user terminal; on an ASCII terminal, this is the CR key, but it may also be labelled "Return" or "Enter".
When a Server Telnet receives the Telnet end-of-line sequence CR LF as input from a remote terminal, the effect MUST be the same as if the user had pressed the "end-of-line" key on a local terminal. On server hosts that use ASCII, in particular, receipt of the Telnet sequence CR LF must cause the same effect as a local user pressing the CR key on a local terminal. Thus, CR LF and CR NUL MUST have the same effect on an ASCII server host when received as input over a Telnet connection.
A User Telnet MUST be able to send any of the forms: CR LF, CR NUL, and LF. A User Telnet on an ASCII host SHOULD have a user-controllable mode to send either CR LF or CR NUL when the user presses the "end-of-line" key, and CR LF SHOULD be the default.
The Telnet end-of-line sequence CR LF MUST be used to send Telnet data that is not terminal-to-computer (e.g., for Server Telnet sending output, or the Telnet protocol incorporated another application protocol).
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@atazhaia said in The Official Status Thread:
Then the fiber operator to check where my fiber hose is (turned out they had ran out)
It's remarkable how replacing (I assume) "fiber cable" with "fiber hose" makes this sound like complete and utter nonsense when I try to read it.
Is that really what you call them?
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
Wait, why the fuck?
The code from the keyboard is for CR. This gets transformed along the way, for sure.
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@ben_lubar said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: Everyone who voted in this poll is a murderer except me
That entirely depends on how you're dying. Would you like to spend 10 years in a persistent vegetative state before they finally pull the plug?
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@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
Wait, why the fuck?
The code from the keyboard is for CR. This gets transformed along the way, for sure.
He asked what character PuTTY sends. If it gets to
@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
the other end
before it's reinterpreted as something other than CR, then it's wrong. It should be sent as one of CR LF, CR NUL, or LF, and the default should be CR LF.
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
@atazhaia said in The Official Status Thread:
Then the fiber operator to check where my fiber hose is (turned out they had ran out)
It's remarkable how replacing (I assume) "fiber cable" with "fiber hose" makes this sound like complete and utter nonsense when I try to read it.
Is that really what you call them?
The fiber hose (literal translation) is a protective conduit that the fiber operator then runs the fiber cable through. So they're different things.
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@atazhaia ok, conduit makes sense.
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
It's remarkable how replacing (I assume) "fiber cable" with "fiber hose" makes this sound like complete and utter nonsense when I try to read it.
Is that really what you call them?It is nonsense.
I grilled him on the Discord and he said he meant to say conduit.
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@blakeyrat cool, he said the same thing here 3 posts back.
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@blakeyrat said in The Official Status Thread:
C# events are dispatched instantly, there's no time for the GC to get at them.
Unless the delegate or dispatcher is a thread. I'm sure there's some fuckery there.
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
Telnet
It's not connecting via TELNET. It's serial, so it should be sending dumb characters. But it's not and I'm not going to be bothered to figure out why.
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
@ben_lubar said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: Everyone who voted in this poll is a murderer except me
That entirely depends on how you're dying. Would you like to spend 10 years in a persistent vegetative state before they finally pull the plug?
Hmm. If I were in a persistent vegetative state, I think it wouldn't matter much to me, as I wouldn't be aware of spending 10 years in a vegetative state. Contemplating the possibilty of being in such a state, I think I would want to be kept alive. People have (in very rare cases) spontaneously recovered from vegetative states that were thought to be persistent; I would want to be kept alive on the off chance, however slight, that I might recover. I think.
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@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
Telnet
It's not connecting via TELNET. It's serial, so it should be sending dumb characters. But it's not and I'm not going to be bothered to figure out why.
Right, but PuTTY is a Telnet client, so it should be expected to adhere to the Telnet standards. Serial is just the connection interface that the Telnet protocol most commonly uses.
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
Telnet
It's not connecting via TELNET. It's serial, so it should be sending dumb characters. But it's not and I'm not going to be bothered to figure out why.
Right, but PuTTY is a Telnet client, so it should be expected to adhere to the Telnet standards. Serial is just the connection interface that the Telnet protocol most commonly uses.
Shrug skin tone 2. There's no apparent option to do TELNET-y things in the interface so I assume nothing.
Also, keyboard, why do you insist on yelling TELNET? Were you licked as a child?
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@tsaukpaetra as far as I know, about the only special Telnet-y thing about Telnet is that your client is supposed to buffer input and transmit the whole line when you press enter. A raw serial communications mode would transmit each character as you typed it.
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
@tsaukpaetra as far as I know, about the only special Telnet-y thing about Telnet is that your client is supposed to buffer input and transmit the whole line when you press enter. A raw serial communications mode would transmit each character as you typed it.
What about control characters? And modified key presses? I'm not inclined to research, but if that's all it was, why invent a whole "protocol" that's merely "buffer the input until they press return" ?
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@tsaukpaetra because it's just supposed to create a standardized virtual terminal, and that's pretty much all a terminal does.
I'm not even sure whether it provides some other stuff like file transfer handling or opening pipes for other sorts of things like x-windows, or whether those are just some extras that Telnet clients like PuTTY add on.
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@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Also, keyboard, why do you insist on yelling TELNET? Were you licked as a child?
It actually interned in the NHL before it got a real job and became your keyboard.
The Joke
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/sports/hockey/brad-marchand-licking.html
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@anotherusername eh, as I said, I'm not inclined.
status: what is with people today and causing me to repeat myself?
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@hungrier said in The Official Status Thread:
@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
I'm not inclined.
You are nowNo, that's emphasized, totally different!
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
@tsaukpaetra as far as I know, about the only special Telnet-y thing about Telnet is that your client is supposed to buffer input and transmit the whole line when you press enter. A raw serial communications mode would transmit each character as you typed it.
There's also options negotiation, the fact that CR has to be followed by NUL, I'm sure a host of other things. There's a reason PuTTY treats "Telnet", "Raw", and "Serial" as three different things. You select what kind of connection you want when you connect.
@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
I'm not even sure whether it provides some other stuff like file transfer handling or opening pipes for other sorts of things like x-windows, or whether those are just some extras that Telnet clients like PuTTY add on.
It does. RFC 1096 for Telnet X display location option. I've had to deal (in MUD clients) with RFC 857 that the server sends to specify whether keystrokes should be echoed at the client... no, Telnet is a whole thing. It's not just a buffered "raw" protocol. Related RFCs
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@heterodox said in The Official Status Thread:
CR has to be followed by NUL
As I posted a while back, CR-LF, CR-NUL, and LF are all permissable telnet line endings, and the default is supposed to be CR-LF.
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E-mail is down for the entire organization at the moment.
So I'm just staring blankly at the screen, thinking "What do."
I probably should be more organized than this.
(Note that when e-mail is down, Outlook won't even start since cached Exchange mode is disallowed, so... can't see my archives, calendar, old e-mail, tasks, anything.)
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@heterodox said in The Official Status Thread:
So I'm just staring blankly at the screen, thinking "What do."
And the natural answer was: I know, I'll go
waste my timebrowse TDWTF
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@timebandit said in The Official Status Thread:
And the natural answer was: I know, I'll go
waste my timebrowse TDWTFBut I have nothing unread. :(
Decided to go to lunch and hope email will be back when I am.
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@heterodox said in The Official Status Thread:
But I have nothing unread
You spend way too much time here :face_with_stuck-out_tongue:
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@hardwaregeek said in The Official Status Thread:
People have (in very rare cases) spontaneously recovered from vegetative states that were thought to be persistent; I would want to be kept alive on the off chance, however slight, that I might recover.
It's been found that there's a lot of complexity in there, and spontaneous recovery (though usually gradual) tends to be from the not quite so damaged states, where something has just knocked too much of the connections between the brain and the outside world offline; still processing, but either input or output (or both) isn't hooked up. Those can recover. In a full PVS, there's (probably) a loss of the internal world as well, and that makes recovery much less likely; there's basically nothing there, at least not actively. It's possible that things may restart after that, neural plasticity is an odd thing, but it's really very unlikely.
At least according to my understanding of what I've read over the years, and bearing in mind what I've learned about how biological neural networks work from my colleagues' simulations.
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@hungrier Don't worry man, I've got this...
PAINT3D!
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@anotherusername said in The Official Status Thread:
Right, but PuTTY is a Telnet client, so it should be expected to adhere to the Telnet standards.
Only when talking the telnet protocol, which isn't used over encrypted links (the SSH protocol has a different scheme for such things as it has actual separate channels available). Yes, there was an encrypted telnet long ago, but it wasn't very popular as it was tangled up in kerberos for auth (and so a PITA across organisational boundaries) and US export control law (so nobody outside the US wanted anything to do with it; the NSA of the time was very not trusted). SSH smashed it flat and then buried the pieces six feet under.
The really odd thing is that there's anyone still using telnet at all. ;)
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@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
I'm not inclined to research, but if that's all it was, why invent a whole "protocol" that's merely "buffer the input until they press return" ?
Telnet did a lot more, especially as it did fairly fancy negotiation to decide on what the remote system capabilities really were. It's generally annoying to implement and, more crucially these days, is totally not 8-bit safe (which causes trouble with modern data). I looked into writing a full telnet client once, and decided “Wow, there's a lot of silly detail in there. ”
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Disassembled my first toaster today. Would have helped to have a proper screwdriver. No, it wasn't plugged in. No, it can't be fixed (snipped the wires to give proper access to the circuit board.
I hadn't known that the whole timer/brownness circuit is a variable resistor, a capacitor, a transistor and an electromagnet. The electromagnet holds the bread tray down (which is why it won't stay down without power). When the capacitor is full, it cuts off power to the electromagnet using the transistor. The resistor controls the charging time of the capacitor (more resistance, more time, darker toast).
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@benjamin-hall said in The Official Status Thread:
No, it can't be fixed (snipped the wires to give proper access to the circuit board
You just need this
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@timebandit That would require effort. And (like so many other things), I'm allergic to that.
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@benjamin-hall You made the effort of disassembling it. I guess you made a reaction
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@timebandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@benjamin-hall You made the effort of disassembling it. I guess you made a reaction
Nah, that was for a student project. They were showing how a toaster works. Poorly showing, but
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@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
The really odd thing is that there's anyone still using telnet at all.
Connect to the remote machine to start a VNC session, then log off until the machine is rebooted and you have to start a new VNC session.
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@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
the NSA of the time was very not trusted
Hahaha, like it is now?
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@hardwaregeek said in The Official Status Thread:
Connect to the remote machine to start a VNC session
Using Telnet
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@timebandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@hardwaregeek said in The Official Status Thread:
Connect to the remote machine to start a VNC session
Using Telnet
Sure. Up until about Windows 10 you could even run a built-in telnet server for just this thing, too!
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@timebandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@hardwaregeek said in The Official Status Thread:
Connect to the remote machine to start a VNC session
Using Telnet
Internal network, so eavesdropping not an issue. Also, my bad, using PuTTY, which supports SSH, not necessarily plain telnet.
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@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Up until about Windows 10 you could even run a built-in telnet server for just this thing
You mean, they FINALLY removed it?
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@timebandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Up until about Windows 10 you could even run a built-in telnet server for just this thing
You mean, they FINALLY removed it?
I can't find it at present.
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@hardwaregeek said in The Official Status Thread:
Internal network, so eavesdropping not an issue.
I work in a place that has students. I don't trust the internal network…
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@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
I work in a place that has students. I don't trust the internal network…
We have a separate VLAN for students
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@timebandit said in The Official Status Thread:
You mean, they FINALLY removed it?
The Telnet Server feature was removed in Windows 10/Windows Server 2016.
I think the Telnet Client optional feature still exists, probably because everyone's too lazy to learn to use Test-NetConnection instead of "telnet" to see if a port is open.