Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad
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Introducing extended line endings support in Notepad
For many years, Windows Notepad only supported text documents containing Windows End of Line (EOL) characters – Carriage Return (CR) & Line Feed (LF). This means that Notepad was unable to correctly display the contents of text files created in Unix,
Wow, that only took two decades?
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@deadfast Also in typical Microsoft-fashion they half-assed it. It can display a file with Unixoid line endings, but you still can't create a new file with anything else but CRLF line endings. Because that would probably be way too much feature creep or something. Maybe in 2038's Notepad update. It's better than nothing though, I guess...
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[cue blakeyrat "notepad isn't meant to be used" argument]
Of course, at this point, improving notepad is absurd, they should just make a replacement in UWP.
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'd in the In Other News Today thread:
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@anonymous234 said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Of course, at this point, improving notepad is absurd, they should just make a replacement in UWP.
Which is especially funny if you consider that they've made UWP rewrites of core applications that WEREN'T complete shit, like calculator or image viewer.
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@anonymous234 there's an unofficial upload of UWP Notepad++ on the Microsoft Store, for now. What's interesting is that MS demonstrated building a Win32 app for ARM using a Notepad++ VS solution...
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@akko Notepad's been deprecated for literally decades. The fact that they touched it at all means they're going way above and beyond, not "half-assing it".
If you don't like Notepad, guess what? Don't use it! That's what everybody at Microsoft has wanted you to do for like 20 years. Why the fuck are you still using it? What the fuck's wrong with you? Stop it. Stop.
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@anonymous234 said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Of course, at this point, improving notepad is absurd, they should just make a replacement in UWP.
You mean like the OneNote app that ships with Windows 10? Yeah they should have done something like that 3-4 years ago, good idea.
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They should just package Notepad++ in Windows, but Europe would call that a monopoly and fine MS.
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@mott555 Notepad++ is shit. If they're going to package an app, maybe an app that knows how to draw fucking drop down menus correctly.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Don't use it! That's what everybody at Microsoft has wanted you to do for like 20 years.
...which is why they're still pushing updates for it
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@blakeyrat Okay, they can package Notepad++ but they need a Windows BR edition (similar to N and KN) which won't include it and it's just for you.
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I would say that they shouldn't ever let you make files with unix line endings. Read them? Sure, moronic opensource devs refuse to fix their files and applications for the platform their applications are running on, and since decades don't seem to be enough time for them to get with the program, a minor reduction in annoyance for Windows users who have to use their awful products makes sense.
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@bb36e said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
...which is why they're still pushing updates for it
Yes. One. Ever.
And, gee, it's almost as if I've said about 432,427,321 times that I 100% disagree with virtually every action 2018 Microsoft takes... huh!!! Weird that I'd disagree with this, too!!!!!
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@blakeyrat not sure why what microsoft wanted half a decade ago is relevant anymore
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@akko Notepad's been deprecated for literally decades.
[citation needed]
If you don't like Notepad, guess what? Don't use it!
Yeah, that's the spirit. Don't complain about it, don't wish for features, don't want it to improve. If you followed your own advice, you'd have 5% of the posts you currently have on this damn site.
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@magus Are you saying either of:
- All OSes should use \r\n file endings like Windows does, because that's the only correct one
- Other OSes can use whatever they like, but there never is no need to ever open a file on a Windows machine that's been created on a non-Windows machine, or vice-versa
Because both of that is bullshit.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@mott555 Notepad++ is shit. If they're going to package an app, maybe an app that knows how to draw fucking drop down menus correctly.
My copy draws both the main menus and right-click menus just fine. Is there some other kind of drop down menu in Notepad++?
If you're referring to the menu layout, it's a bit clunky but it doesn't bother me. If that is what you're complaining about you're complaining about menu organization, not drawing.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@akko Notepad's been deprecated for literally decades.
What other text editor ships with Windows? AFAIK notepad is still the default program to open text files.
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@topspin I think he's objecting to lazy-ass open source developers who "ported" their products to Windows but didn't actually do jack-shit beyond the basics of making it kind of run. For example, they didn't even bother to correct the text files that go with it.
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@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
What other text editor ships with Windows?
WordPad.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
I would say that they shouldn't ever let you make files with unix line endings. Read them? Sure, moronic opensource devs refuse to fix their files and applications for the platform their applications are running on, and since decades don't seem to be enough time for them to get with the program, a minor reduction in annoyance for Windows users who have to use their awful products makes sense.
At this point all OSes should read/write text files by default in whatever format they're in. Creating new files in the OS default is fine. It's not like it's hard supporting the different line endings. Java and .NET line readers seem to handle it just fine.
One exception is it's probably not worth supporting old Mac \r line endings. But then again, it's not that hard to do so.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@topspin I think he's objecting to lazy-ass open source developers who "ported" their products to Windows but didn't actually do jack-shit beyond the basics of making it kind of run. For example, they didn't even bother to correct the text files that go with it.
Which is a straw-man because even if every program writes Windows line-endings on Windows you still need to open files created by non-Windows programs.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@akko Notepad's been deprecated for literally decades.
Source?
Also congrats to @anonymous234!
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@blakeyrat Wordpad is fucking horrible for plain text
That said, if they want us to use it, they should bind it to .text.
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@weng said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@blakeyrat Wordpad is fucking horrible for plain text
That's because it's a word processor.
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@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
All OSes should use \r\n file endings like Windows does, because that's the only correct one
No.
@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Other OSes can use whatever they like, but there never is no need to ever open a file on a Windows machine that's been created on a non-Windows machine, or vice-versa
No.
@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Because both of that is bullshit.
Like your post.
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@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@weng said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@blakeyrat Wordpad is fucking horrible for plain textThat's because it's a word processor.
I know this.
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@mikehurley said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
At this point all OSes should read/write text files by default in whatever format they're in. Creating new files in the OS default is fine. It's not like it's hard supporting the different line endings. Java and .NET line readers seem to handle it just fine.
Which they do, now. But they shouldn't have to, because you shouldn't be putting stupid unix line endings on windows machines.
@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Which is a straw-man because even if every program writes Windows line-endings on Windows you still need to open files created by non-Windows programs.
Sure, if they are always in the habit of sending Windows machines files with the wrong line endings. Which is stupid.
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@topspin said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@weng said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@blakeyrat Wordpad is fucking horrible for plain textThat's because it's a "word processor".
Fixed that for ya.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Sure, if they are always in the habit of sending Windows machines files with the wrong line endings. Which is stupid.
Have you ever heard of the concept of exchanging files?
Like network shares, removable media, email, or gasp files from the internet.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
The fact that they touched it at all means
Probably means it was a summer intern's project?
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
I would say that they shouldn't ever let you make files with unix line endings. Read them? Sure, moronic opensource devs refuse to fix their files and applications for the platform their applications are running on, and since decades don't seem to be enough time for them to get with the program, a minor reduction in annoyance for Windows users who have to use their awful products makes sense.
Is there anyway to get github to make it's snapshot zips using Windows EOLs? Otherwise, we can blame the need to update Notepad on git...
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@dcon The devs of git refuse to admit that any line endings but Unix exist, and use them even on Windows machines. They always store data that way, and force systems that want other line endings to convert every time they pull files out or put them back in. So yeah, its fairly likely that that's the cause.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
I would say that they shouldn't ever let you make files with unix line endings.
Yes, let's increase the user hostility of Windows!
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@the_quiet_one said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
@akko Notepad's been deprecated for literally decades.
[citation needed]
If you don't like Notepad, guess what? Don't use it!
Yeah, that's the spirit. Don't complain about it, don't wish for features, don't want it to improve. If you followed your own advice, you'd have 5% of the posts you currently have on this damn site.
Don't mind him. He's just stuck in the 1990s.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Which they do, now. But they shouldn't have to, because you shouldn't be putting stupid unix line endings on windows machines.
Uh oh.
has hacked @Magus!
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@boomzilla What is the use case for creating files with unix line endings on windows? Because I certainly can't think of any. It isn't the correct format for the OS. Unix applications bleed their line endings into other systems, but Microsoft's cross-platform stuff tends to do a pretty good job of detecting the platform's preference.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
What is the use case for creating files with unix line endings on windows?
Use case: user wants a file with
\nline endings.@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Because I certainly can't think of any.
That's the bestest reason ever! I can't think of why anyone would want to do it. It should be impossible!
That's just fucking evil.
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@boomzilla said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
That's the bestest reason ever! I can't think of why anyone would want to do it. It should be impossible!
That's just fucking evil.Yeah, sure, ignore my actual post. You should follow the guidelines of the platform you're on. Microsoft knows how to do that, but because unixheads don't, they've made things less terrible for the users those unixheads have caused problems for.
Where exactly does git give you that kind of choice? They just do it wrong for the platform, with no effort put into compliance.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Yeah, sure, ignore my actual post.
Vehemently disagreeing with you is not ignoring you.
@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
You should follow the guidelines of the platform you're on.
Yes, that's good practice. But you want to make them more like laws. Like I said: user hostile.
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@boomzilla said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
Like I said: user hostile.
Yes, git is.
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@magus I agree. So why are you trying to be like git?
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@boomzilla I'm not. My preference is like this:
- Default to platform settings, but the user can change it if they have to. I don't think they ever do, but...
- Enforce platform settings.
- Enforce your settings regardless of platform.
I wouldn't complain about 2, because it's at least following the platform's guidelines. And it's what Microsoft decided on in this instance. But 3? Nothing is worse than that.
I still can't think of a legitimate reason for 1 over 2, but maybe it's needed. So far everyone has responded to me being unable to think of a reason with hostility, so my belief that there's a legit reason is going downhill.
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
So far everyone has responded to me being unable to think of a reason with hostility, so my belief that there's a legit reason is going downhill.
Sure, dig in. Why start being right at this point?
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@magus said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
I still can't think of a legitimate reason for 1 over 2
I sometimes have to write/edit Linux-y code from Windows (Windows text/code editors are far better, especially if the Linux target has no GUI or the repos only have junk like vim). Makes sense to use Linux line endings then, else gcc suffers fatal diarrhea when I move the files over and compile.
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@mott555 Sure, that does make sense, but it seems like something the source control system should handle for you.
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@mott555 said in Microsoft Adds Proper Support for Line Breaks in Notepad:
junk like vim
I beg your pardon?
